Local2542

I am the designated planner for our group of 5 to 8 people heading to Tanzania in January 2008, and have gleened so much great information from this forum.

Thanks to this forum, I've ended up expanding my list of potential tour operators from a short list of one to several. I feel as though I am suffering from too much information.

Here are the tour folks I am looking at:

ATR
Africa Dream Safaris
Africa Adventure Company
Thompson's
Journey's By Design

We are trying to travel in comfortable lodging, and stay in-country 14 to 17 days, which seems to be impossible with all these tour folks - many keep wanting to put us into their pre-fab tours, and most keep pushing Zanzibar. None of them has actually provided me a intinerary with my above specifications. Also, we would like a private departure safari, which seems like it does not shoot the price up too much.

I have had very mixed views on my email and direct phone contact with all the above, for the reasons i mentioned before, and that each one seems to have their own tour agenda.

ATR has been lovely on the phone and with wonderful information, but I do not want to be passed on to Tanganika Expeditions - not such great reports posted.

AAC, can't seem to produce the intinerary i keep requesting. They have resent the same "Classic Safari" intinerary (12 days in-country) three times now, and are not wanting to add a Mahale extention, but is really pushing Rwanda and Gorilla Trekking, saying the chimps at Mahale can be impossible to find, while another company said the opposite.

We were all very interested in Southern TZ, and the Selous. Two companies have basically refused to offer it to us, saying it is way too hot, and the others said nothing about the heat, and were happy to send us.

Thompson's has also been very "canned" in their responses.

Yikes! Help. I am almost to the point of trying to book much of this trip on my own.

Any input would be very, very helpful. Thank you.

jasher

Hello Local,

Sorry you've been having such problems planning your trip -- it's a shame none of the companies has responded to your requests.

Even a group of two can get a private, tailor-made safari for only a bit more than a standard group trip. A group your size can certainly arrange a private departure.

Are you locked into January? To be honest, Southern Tanzania will be extremely hot and humid around the time of year you are travelling -- which is fine if everyone on your group is prepared for it, but is definitely something to take into consideration. It's certainly possible to visit Southern Tanzania in January, but if you could travel at a different time of year it would be much cooler and more pleasant.

For the same reason, I think going to Zanzibar in January would be mad as it's even worse than the parks in terms of heat -- not sure why some operators are pushing Zanzibar. I think you've made the right choice by skipping it.

I'm not sure why one agent is pushing Rwanda over Mahale. Many people here have been to Mahale and had great chimp viewing. It's easily accessible from Arusha -- much more easily than Rwanda. More to the point, if you want chimps, you should get chimps not gorillas -- after all, it's YOUR trip, not the agent's trip!

If you're going out to Mahale, I'd recommend considering a stopover in Katavi -- this remote, little visited park is a hidden gem on the northern circuit. You could substitute it for Lake Manyara on the itinerary I've outlined below, though due to flight timings you would probably then need to cut the Serengeti to three days (there is a minimum 3-night stay at Katavi).

Assuming that you don't mind the heat, that you want to visit both Southern and Northern Tanzania, and that you have 17 days in-country, you could do something along the following lines:

Fly into Dar
Selous x3
Ruaha x3
Fly Dar-Arusha, drive to Lake Manyara
Lake Manyara x2
Ngorongoro Crater x2
Serengeti x4
Fly back to Arusha, connect to flight to Mahale
Mahale x3
Fly back to Arusha and home.

For accommodation, I'd recommend the following:

SELOUS: Beho Beho or Sand Rivers -- they are the two most remote camps in the park.

RUAHA: Mwagusi or EMC Ruaha. Mwagusi is a permanent tented camp in the centre of the park, whereas EMC Ruaha is a new mobile venture.

LAKE MANYARA: Manyara Tree Lodge if your budget can sustain it.

NGORONGORO: Crater Lodge if your budget can sustain it. If not, the Sopa has the edge for location.

SERENGETI: Kusini or Ndutu Lodge if you want a permanent camp; Nomad, CCAfrica, and Asilia will also have their mobile tented camps in the area. You'll want to be on the short grass plains to see the calving and the migration.

KATAVI: Chada Katavi is the most well-established camp here and is know to be excellent. The new Katavi camp run by the Fox family also looks very good.

MAHALE: There's been a bit controversy of late over the best camp here - I haven't been to either so I can't comment from experience. Greystoke is known to be a wonderful camp, but Nkungwe is much less expensive.

You will save money by going through an agent versus booking direct, not to mention a whole lot of time, so I'd suggest that you keep looking until you find the right one. You have plenty of time to plan, so there's no need to rush since you're looking at 2008.

Cheers,
Julian

MyDogKyle

Please bear in mind that I have not been on my trip yet and so I can't vouch for how things will work out with this company on the ground... but I've read good comments about Green Footprint Adventures on this board, on Trip Advisor, and in Lonely Planet. I've been planning a 2007 trip to Tanzania with them and my contact there, Mirjam, has been absolutely wonderful about helping us put together exactly the trip we want. She started the whole process by asking what WE wanted to do with our time, and then made suggestions based on that. They don't seem to have pre-set itineraries, which I really liked. You might want to contact them with your interests and see what they suggest.

Otis72

You need to change your list of "folks I am looking at". We arranged a Jan07 safari in Tanzania with Good Earth, and they were accomodating to all our requests. They offer suggestions (all good ones, too), but it was all about what we wanted.

I don't have much experience with arranging safaris, but I know that I am the Customer and am the one putting up the Money. Good Earth had no problem with that.

atravelynn

Check out this link to a recent post

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34880277

matnikstym

try sandi @ africa serendipity. she's a regular poster here and is also an agent. her wealth of knowledge on this board is outstanding and i'm sure she could help you put your trip together.

Leely

If you are interested in Southern Tanzania, why not try the Foxes? Do a search on this board for the Foxes of Africa. Many people have used them and been quite happy.

Although it sounds as if January in So. TZ could be beastly!

I used ATR in June and booked a daytrip with Green Footprints. See my trip report for June 06 on the Revised East Africa trip report index for my mixed-feeling, good/bad reviews. But if you use ATR, Tanganyika is their ground operator. That's just the way it is. Unless, of course, you book an all-Nomad trip.

Also, I wouldn't hesitate to book through Africa Serendipity or Kiliwarrior--if only I could afford them.

Local2542

Thank you! Great input. I will be contacting Serendipity, along with adding Julian's advise on lodging and intinerary.

I would still welcome any feedback on the other operators, such as AAC, Thompson's and Africa Dream Safari's.

andybiggs

Have you given each of the operators a rough budget? I ask, because there are certain locations that will cut into a budget very quickly. Zanzibar tends to relieve price pressure. Southern Tanzania (Selous, Ruaha, Katavi) tends to cost more per day than anything in northern Tanzania. Keep in mind that transportation costscan drive up the cost of a safari very quickly.

14 to 17 days in only northern Tanzania can be a big long, in my opinion. January is a wonderful time to be out on safari in northern Tanzania, but I wouldn't consider that a good time to head down to southern Tanzania.

I am not sure who is talking up Selous/Ruaha, but I would not consider it a good time to go down there. Zanzibar is always nice, even though it is warm for most of the year. Beaches are usually a popular thing, but if it isn't for you, then strike it down quickly.

I am eager to hear if you have told anybody your budget yet, because this will be your biggest limiting factor, given the length of time you wish to be out on safari.

Good luck with everything! You will definitely receive good advice from people on this forum.

Andy

andybiggs

I forgot to mention about the chimps at Mahale. Yes, gorillas are much easier to track, find and watch than wild chimpanzees. Gorillas are much less mobile during the day, whereas chimps could be all over the place. If you are interested in going to Mahale, you owe it to yourself to stay more than 2 nights there, in case you do not find them on your first couple of days. You are never guaranteed a sighting, but most always come back home with good ones. The way to increase your odds will be to stay there longer.

$.02

Local2542

Thanks, Andy,

Yes - our budget has grown to between 8,000 and 9,000 USD. For some in our group, this is the trip of a lifetime, a few of us will work hard to visit again I'm sure.

The Selous just had us all tantalized, but its remoteness. I am begining to fear we will have to leave it behind. The majority of our group live in Arkansas (no comments, please) and just came out of another 90 degree week. I don't love the temps like that, but then again I am not on vacation. They are not that horrible to most of us, in comparison to what could be a really awesome experience.

Chole Mjini also sounded like a possible alternative.

Perhaps we should exend the visit into Kenya? Since we really want to be in country for so long. We had discarded it, wanting to really focus on TZ.

andybiggs

Trust me, I am with you on the 90+ degree heat thing. Drives me nuts down here in Texas. I should be living near the mountains somwhere.

You know, doing a joint Tanzania/Kenya trip wouldn't be a bad idea, actually. I wouldn't feel it necessary to visit the Mara, but Amboseli and a few others would do quite well. The biggest challenge might be finding the right safari outfitter that has good relationships in both countries.

atravelynn

I've used Africa Adventure without any problem. I send them what I want <b>in writing</b> and they execute it without a hitch. I've even made unusual requests such as 8 gorilla permits in two countries and it is done, no problem. There is another post on AAC (mixed review) that I will be adding to in a moment and that will top it so you can see it. It is has the name Africa Adventure in it for searching.

Only once did Alison of AAC really push me to use a camp that was not on my radar screen. I followed the advice and was thrilled with the results. But I would not be swayed into doing Rwanda if I really wanted Mahale. Did AAC say that January is a bad time for Mahale or give another explanation? Does Rwanda fit with your budget, but not Mahale? In other words is there a good reason for encouraging the switch?

Africa Dream has a good report or two on the board and a superb website. They seem to be very expensive.

Thompson's has a fine reputation but I think they have a set circuit.

Journey's by Design--know nothing

ATR--has been used very successfully by many with a few rough spots in the last year or so.

Unless you really wanted to do Zanzibar, I'd stick with just safari.

<b>Re Arkansas--I've been intrigued by the Buffalo National River. Also the osprey project at Big Lake. Any info?</b>

Stick to your guns and you'll get what you want because you are starting to plan so early. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Local2542

Regarding Rwanda vs. Mahale, Rwanda sounded like a lot more work and time to get there - I haven't compared the price yet. I am going to ask the group, and maybe we will split up, some going to Gorilla Trekking, and the rest to Chimps.

I appreciate that sometimes the outfitters, like Allison at AAC, will have a good reason for pushing clients to stay in a certain spot. I just don't want that reason to be financial for the outfitter, but rather for the better experience of the client.

For me, I started doubting the reasons each was pushing their agendas when the information became so polarized.

What I should have mentioned in my original post was that after extensive research, I emailed all five tour operators with a specific intinerary, even a couple specific lodgings, a budget, dates, number in group and only asked them to offer an upscale lodging pricing, and then one level down to conserve costs a bit. I did ask for opinions, i.e. if we were leaving out something terrific. The responses I received (and two that I didn't receive for weeks, after another email and phone call).

I just reviewed my email I sent - and then the respones, and I am smiling, since not one produced what I asked for. I may have to post them, since it has become a source of humor with our group as we viewed each selection. : )

Now were are just confused, and slightly giddy ...

Local2542

Perhaps a sundowner might just help in our decision making process....

dssxxxx

thompson prices seem a bit high for what they are offering.

I will throw my 0.02 in for Roy Safari's.

If you are really pressed, I could look up my notes on who did the best jobs of communication/pricing/vehicles/etc.

Good luck.

Local2542

Atravelynn,

The Buffalo River (National Scenic Riverway) is incredible - there are also several other wonderful rivers in northern Arkansas (Kings, Spring, Elk, 11 Point) and southern Missouri (Jacks Fork and Current Rivers).

I will search for the link to the Buffalo for checking water depth. Spring is the best time, March to May. If we have big rain, the rivers all keep flowing. But we have been really short of rain, so even a fall float is looking tricky. July and August are usually out for the really good floats.

The Buffalo can be a class 4 or 5 river, up near the mouth, but the most popular floats are a 2 or less. Very scenic, and very busy anytime school is out - even when the water is not that deep.

Local2542

Otis72,

I have requested info from Good Earth.

Also, requested info from Serendipity.

Julian,

Thank you again for the great itinerary.

atravelynn

Thanks for the river info.

Please do post any itineraries you wish to share. You will probably receive some very helpful pointers if you give specifics.

It appears you were quite specific with your requests of the agents. Reminds me of politicians when they are asked a question, but spout campaign slogans instead of addressing the particulars of the question.

In this case you have lots of choices for casting your safari vote!

rsnyder

While I am not advocating southern Tanzania for a January trip, as I have not been there in January, I would suggest if you still want a southern safari that you contact Foxes of Africa and even include your desires for northern part of country. Such is the approach I am taking with Jane Fox as she has good contacts for the north. Am very close to booking a north/south trip with her for June 2007. Was very pleased with trip she arranged for us for southern T last year and looking forward to another visit.