Catbert

Amwosu, She went through Youth For Understanding (YFU). Many students do it for one of their high school years. She graduated early so it was a nice alternative to going to college at 16. (www.yfu.org)

LHG

Thank you all for your replies. The "gap" year is definitely an interesting idea. Of course, I meant where did your son or daughter CHOOSE to attend college. Anyone else want to share their story?

mikemo

My dad was class of '31 at NYU; mom class of '40 at UNC/GB - both with BS.
I'm U ND '66; Manhattan '67; GU '71. (BS; MS; MD).
Sis Chestertown '70, MA U MD and PhD UNC.
Ninos: Mark: SMU '91 BS; Matt: AB JHU '93, M.A. UT/Austin (ILOS, Econ)'95: Marie-Adele Pomona '99 BA, '05 M.A. UT/Austin.
I would go to Pomona in a NY minute if I might qualify.
M

Nikki

CAPH52, my daughter just graduated from Hampshire College and has started graduate school in Denver. She was attracted by Hampshire's mailings in high school emphasizing coloring outside the lines. She never could stay inside the lines in kindergarten, and Hampshire worked pretty well for her.

While at Hampshire she was only two hours away from home, but now she is 2,000 miles away and I'm having to adjust. My younger daughter also attends a college in Massachusetts, and I think she was initially horrified that she was staying so close to home.

LHG, I thought I would be sad when my kids went away to college, but it ended up fine. I guess I was afraid that our close relationships would end when they weren't living at home. I needn't have worried. The anticipation was far worse than the actual separation, and it has been a joy watching them become increasingly independent.

CAPH52

Nikki, while my daughter didn't receive those mailings (she found out about Hampshire through one of those huge college guides), that was definitely the concept that drew her to it! Because it is so far from home and so unique (!), my husband and I were a little wary at first. But, as I said, it's turned out to be a good fit!

Is your daughter happy with her graduate school choice so far? And I have to say, I'm quite curious about how grad schools view Hampshire's evaluations rather than grades. Was that at all a problem for your daughter?

amwosu

Hey BetsyG- Since you have experience taking a gap year at a little older age than my son...what do you see as the pitfalls for a younger person to leave home and work in that environment?

You mentioned that you wouldn't want that for your daughter right out of h.s. so is there something I don't know that I should consider?

Nikki

CAPH52, my daughter's classes haven't actually begun yet; she has only had an orientation session and some training programs, so no opinion of the program yet.

I do not know whether her applications were met with any different response because of the Hampshire "meaningful evaluations" as opposed to grades. What I do know is that VERY few of her classmates went immediately to grad school.

Several reasons for this. One is that the office for careers and grad school placement operates on the same "do it yourself" principles as the rest of the school and gives very little support or guidance to students who are trying to organize their Div. 3 projects and meet with their committees and write their proposals during the autumn, when they also need to take GRE's and apply to graduate schools if they are going directly after graduation. A student must be very self motivated and organized to get it all done on time.

JJ5

Wow! What a different perspective to the ones I have experienced.

One thing I'm fairly sure of and that is that there is no one or even ten answers that are "right" across the board. And individuals' temperaments and REAL independence levels make a whole lot of difference.

I'm the one that sees the 17 or 18 year old coming in, and sometimes sees the 30 year old coming in, as well.

My children were all totally different and went at different speeds and in different eras as there is 12 years between the oldest and the youngest. One was absolutely driven- and was a CPA at 20. He actually was the youngest CPA in IL for a almost a year at one point. He never regrets a thing he did school-wise and is extremely successful today at 38.

Finances. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to "choose" schools. I was the first person in a family of probably 100 people to get a degree- which I started basically at 42 after one year completed in my youth and 20 plus years of working full time, most in a family business. I got 3 degrees by 50. None of it was on an excelerated level or clep- I went just like the kids do.

All my kids have advanced degrees that they got by themselves, paid for by themselves. I bought books and did what I could with lots of other issues like cars etc. They all went to State Universities (all different) on loans and work study- except for the youngest who got 2 free years at a good private school at the end of his degree because it was a employee benefit- by that time I was Staff there. We never had enough money to do otherwise, and always had too much to get free rides. But my daughter was the most brilliant, as she figured out very early that she had to be OFF my income tax and on her own. She declared herself independent at 17 and had almost free tuition etc. by 18/19. She did it too. She started working in a florist shop at 15 and moved out at 17. All my boys would still be living at home if I let them, regardless of their schooling arrangements. Cooking, friends and everything- they all love home. All married people from our home state and all married Catholics (as we are) after living out of state for periods after they finished school. They all came back. I love them to death, but I actually cried when a few of them moved back with spouses, kids after 30. They all love IL and I let them all live with me for a year or two each while they were building houses etc. They have all been gone now for 6 years.

Did I cry when they were gone? I never had time to cry, I had too many bills to pay and sick people to provide for. I did miss them horribly at times, especially Sunday dinners, but one is super, super lazy. (Still is.) So I just Thank God he is happy and making it now in his own sweet time and way.

I would be very, very wary of that year off thing. It is not the norm here. Plus having money becomes a habit many can not disengage. When some do, their study is much more productive afterwards.

Most 17 or 18 year old have no idea what they really would like to do. Actually working at various jobs, regardless of how menial, is probably one of life's best lessons to get a clue if the field feels right.

These children today, regardless of economic levels, for the most part have little actual independent reasoning and practice. I think you all sound like wonderful parents, be there to listen and keep in as much contact as you can- but PLEASE keep in mind the rules of consequence, especially with money and how to manage it.

I see students who have no value whatsoever for the great gift they have been given, because they have never earned it except by their existence. And I see the opposite. Just know what side your child falls on this and then trust their choices if they have been good ones up until now. But after the second bad choice of schools etc., consider making the child (because then they are)pick up the tab for all the prior and subsequent mistakes.

And please, please, please don't let them ruin themselves with credit.

seetheworld

Our oldest son choose Boston University and graduated in May. He is now employed as a member of a leadership and management program and is a graduate student in an Executive Education program in Boston. His undergraduate years were "the best four years of my life" type of experience.

Our youngest son was also accepted into BU, as well as a variety of other schools he applied to, but choose to stay close to home. He attends a university in NYC and dorms on campus.

Both of our sons are different types of learners, who work hard (in different ways) and have similar interests. The oldest absolutely knew what he wanted to do and has his sights set on a PhD; the youngest also has a focus, similar to his brother's, but he is also very civic minded and we always encourage him to follow his dreams and make decisions for himself.

Do I miss them? Sure, you bet. But I'm a tough cookie when it comes to education. Afterall, it doesn't come cheap and they know it.

CAPH52

Thanks for your response, Nikki. It was a little disheartening. But certainly not a huge surprise. Self-motivation is certainly part of the whole "Hampshire experience". But a little frustrating too! Considering that she's in grad school, obviously your daughter has what it takes! I just hope mine will!

I have to say though that this all sort of goes to my over-riding feeling after we'd completed the tour of Hampshire the summer before our daughter's senior year of high school. I remember thinking that if she could graduate from Hampshire, she would have gained a tremendous amount of life skills. People have this misconception that because Hampshire doesn't have grades or tests, it must be easy. That's certainly not the case! And it definitely takes a certain kind of kid. I know our son, who's a junior in h.s. is not that kind of kid. He needs more structure.

As I said in my initial response to this thread, there are many things to be considered when you're making this choice!

seetheworld

Sorry, that should be "chose" - too tired to spell tonight

ChristieP

JJ5, I couldn't agree with you more!!

Back when I went to college (not too long ago), I chose a smaller school that gave me a good enough scholarship that my folks and I could afford the remainder. I had a wonderful time there, and I would not have traded the experience for the prestige of going to a bigger, yet more expensive, university. I graduated from that school with my BA, and soon found an employer to pay for my master's degree. I don't owe my parents or student loans for any of my education, and I feel I am truly blessed for this.

One of my dear friends' daughers is attending a $25,000 a year private university here in Texas, and my friend has promised her daughter she'd pay for it all. She has just taken a second mortgage on her house to do this. And the worst part is that the bachleor's degree the daughter is pursuing is practically worthless without a master's afterwards. So, Mom has promised to foot the bill for grad school, too. She has no idea how she will manage to pay for it all without totally ruining herself. (I couldn't imagine doing this to my parents!)

JJ5

Yes, Christie P.

Even with the perimeters I set, there were years because of books, transport, living expenses etc. I was still putting out about 1/3rd to 1/2 of my own income for mine or my childrens' education, usually both. And I never quit working full time during all this except for my last 2 years of my undergraduate degree.

One summer I worked 20 hours a week at the library in my town and took 22 semester credit hours in TWO different schools at the same time. One undergrad and one post-grad. You aren't supposed to be able to do that. And my grad point when graduating was 3.95 on a 4.

And I was really blessed by God that I had the strength to say No at the times that I did. It wasn't easy many times. Because I didn't have a clue what was coming. If I had used up my home equity as suggested by some advisors, I would probably be close to welfare myself by now. I had no idea that after 25 years our business, my husband, most of the pension set-ups would disappear overnight, literally, with my husband's illness and subsequent mid-life crisis.

My brother has done as your friend, for all three of his. He has a Villanova grad who couldn't get a job in his field and is doing something totally different besides paying off loans on his own.

Ironic part is that his kids are all discontent and POOR now, and only 1 of the three seems at all happy in where they are "at" careerwise or relationship wise. One would like to marry but has no economic basis to do so on the horizon. They are 23 to 27.
Another child, his University of Chicago grad is in the other position, of having SO MANY choices that he is grad student one year and using a seat in the commodities exchange at the Board of Trade the next. And now something totally else the third year out. That's not bad, don't get me wrong.
But he has lost his roots, he admits it and comes by me all the time. These transitions are not all easy ones. We are emotional beings and not just financial ones.

Role modeling is IMPORTANT. If you have a value for education and exhibit it daily, they will- regardless of who is paying for it. But if THEY are, they will value it more than if they are not. It's just human nature. Independence has life rewards beyond just the schooling. But this includes economic independence as well as physical distance to be real in any sense for the long term.

They can do it, not with video game time and leisure at 5 to 6 hours a day, but they can. On my campus I see telephone, movie, tv, sports on the quad, hanging etc. at about 5 to 6 hours a day minimum. And that is for the students who actually go to all their classes, discussion groups, work in organizations on campus etc. They still have that much extra time.
And it is not a realistic measure of what you need to do to prepare for a life and the demands of a real job and career.

My youngest is a prime example of the norm right now in 2005. He went back to grad school because he was so absolutely "stricken" by the demands of a work life. It is very, very common.
We are not letting our kids prepare for real work by making things as easy as it is now for them.

GoTravel

My kids were so easy.

The oldest knew from about age 12 he wanted to go to engineering school and graduated with a BS a couple of years ago. Ironically he designs admission software for universities.

Oldest stepdaughter is getting ready to graduate with a BA in fashion merchandising in December and is already in management with Nordstrom's. She's 22.

Youngest stepdaughter is classic overachiever. She's a senior in high school and wants very bad to go to school at big brothers favorite client....Harvard.

We're broke from paying college tuition and have four more years.

JJ5

I feel for you, Go. And yours are lucky, as all my oldest are- that they have found work and substance after the fact. They found success far beyond mine and well before they were 40. And not just in the financial.

BUT, when I mean broke- I'm talking BROKE. Going to a restaurant was living it up and something I could do maybe once or twice a month. Everyday bills, especially grocery bills, were more than worrisome. My trips for about 4 to 6 years there were to the park or on the train to go to free events downtown. This is not where you want to be in your 40's or 50's after a lifetime of work and actually achieving and enjoying much better. It's tough to go "backwards" unless you are ready to do so. I'm almost ready now. I'm giving a lot away. By the time I'm 70, I want to be like a Budhist except for a home of my own, small one at that. No junk- no collections- no boxes of photos- nothing but my bowl.

kybourbon

My daughter is attending MIT in Cambridge, MA. She decided she would go there, if she got accepted, when she was in 8th grade.

She knew she wanted to be an engineer so she only looked at schools with strong engineering programs. She didn't want to be at a small school and didn't consider any schools under 4000 students. She also wanted to be in a city instead of a small town.

She selected several schools and we started making visits to the campuses. You should try to visit the schools while classes are in session. These visits really helped to eliminate several schools before the application process started.

Collegeboard.com is the official college website. You can look online at the profiles of each school. They also give acceptance rates for all the schools. My daughter applied to a couple of schools she new she would get in to have as "fall back" schools. She also applied to several top schools with acceptance rates as low as 8%.

If I had been making the choice, it wouldn't have been MIT! I liked Purdue and Carnegie Mellon much better.

gail

Savannah College of Art and Design (from Boston - 1000 miles) where he is a sophomore.

Friends told me it gets less sad quickly and that you worry less about them when they are away than when they are at home - I did not believe them, but it is true. Second year is a lot easier than first year, but by Thanksgiving when he is home for first time I am aching to give him a hug.

BetsyG

amwosu,
It certainly depends on your kid & his self-discipline. The big difference for me between working at the ski area & college was the environment. My college was very competitive & the norm was to study most every night. In Winter Park, we went out to the bars many nights/week. Betsy

GoTravel

I took a forced year and a half off school before going back and finishing my degree (BA Poli Sci).

It taught me the value of a dollar and responsibility.

gyppielou

The school of hard knocks of course!!!!!!