mark

Hi .....

I live in England & all I know of this incident is what I read in the English newspapers & see on the TV.

The English press is asking if this had been a Irish (ie white) parade, would the police have allowed the people to get away with it ?? The press says no ... They ask are the police terrified of doing anything in case they get accused of being racist ... what do people think ??

I find it incrediable that in a country which is meant to be civilised, the police can stand by & watch ... over 25 women were attacked/degraded/molested/robbed etc etc ... this happened over a mile in Central Park ... it was even videoed by tourists .... yet nothing was done .... why ??? ask yourself that ....

I certainly don't blame all Puerto Ricans ... it's like blaming all whites for the sins of their forefathers ...

But these people should be caught/tried/imprisioned ...

As to those people who dismiss this as a minor incident ... well I find this incrediable .....

IGOR .... how can everyone who posts to this topic be classed as racists ... ??

To i ([email protected]): Anyone going to NY (ie tourist) would go to Central Park .... why not ... how are they meant not to know not to go ....

Mark

Steve

Mark, the English press seems to have gotten it wrong. A couple of years ago during the "Irish" parade a gang beat up and killed a kid. No cops intervened. In both cases it was police negligence. The cops can't be everywhere, but when there are hundreds of cops out monitoring the event they should have gotten wind of the crime.

It is unclear whether any cops witnessed any of the attacks. It is clear that they were told of the attacks by some victims and did not intervene. What is probably at work with the NYC Police, as well as with some people on this board is an ability to dismiss or laugh off male attacks on woman. Many men don't think it's a big deal if woman are grabbed, groped and stripped. If you disagree with that statement remember there were probably over fifty men participating in the attacks and many more standing and watching, along with the cops who didn't stop it. It also explains why the NYC Police Commissioner and Mayor were at first so dismissive of the seriousness of the charges, at least until the tapes showed up. They have been very responsive since then.

Lastly, we in the US don't understand how almost yearly kids are killed in riots Britain at soccer matches. I guess every "civilized" society has it's problems.

michele

So many people on this thread are stereotyping -- labelling an entire place or group based on isolated incidents. Even the initial question -- "Is NYC reverting back to its old ways?" -- is a stereotype. New York is just a place. It is not capable of being "safe" or "unsafe." INDIVIDUALS are dangerous or safe. ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS are not dangerous or safe, they are just groups, made up of individuals, and it is the individuals who behaved horrendously and deserve to be punished, not the group. Likewise, Central Park is neither safe nor unsafe, it's just a place, and at any given time it will have lots of good people and, yes, some bad people in it. And yes, you have to be careful no matter where you are, but even if you are careful, something bad may happen to you. But the same is true anywhere. Remember last summer a couple of women were kidnapped in one of our national parks? My point is, it can happen anywhere, but individuals are responsible for the behavior, not entire ethnic groups.
By the way -- yes, it is true that most crimes of violence are committed by men.
And women of all races are far more likely to be victims of crime than men.
So to the extent you want to make an issue out of stereotypes, why not make it a gender issue rather than a racial one? Because obviously it is ridiculous to say "men commit most crimes and women are victims of most crimes so therefore men are bad and women are good." Labelling entire races or genders or cities on the basis of the behavior of some evil individuals is just wrong.

That said, what happened to those women makes me sick, and I hope they catch every person involved and send them to jail.

reba

This is just a statement on my recollection of the last year’s parade and not an indictment. I was in the city on business during the PR parade. As I was walking through the crowds trying to get back to my hotel, as a female I was embarrassed because of the suggestive behavior and titillating dress of some of the young women in the crowds. These are the same mixed messages that go out at Mardi Gras. I know, I know, I know….it shouldn’t matter what the behavior is, it shouldn’t warrant this reaction from the males.

Pam

Correct as usual Cindy. Dear, igor - too bad you can't follow logical argument. Cindy did not classify this problem as a race issue "Mad" did. (In an unbelievably bigoted way I might add!) Cindy merely correctly pointed out that too much killing is done and it often is done by non-minorities! Get a clue.

r

I have lived about 200 yards from Central Park for the last 10 years. Tourists should not hesitate to visit NY and Central Park during the day. It is a great place. I, however, will say this about the Puerto Rican Day parade and this is not a bigotted (sp?) response. New Yorkers not otherwise involved with the parade uniformly try to avoid this more than any other single event.

Mark

Hi Steve....

Thanks for putting me straight on that ... all I will say is the police appeared to play down the incident/laugh it off ... what if there hadn't been any video ??

I certainly do believe it is a terrible crime ... that is what made me respond in the 1st place ...

As to kids getting killed at British soccer games yearly .... eh where ??? About 10 years ago there was an incidence at a ground where 93 fans were killed .... most of them were crushed/sufficated ... but wasn't down to a riot, but the fact police allowed to many fans in to one section ...

I've been going to games for about 20 years (oh dear I getting old !!) & in all that time I've only ever seen 1 incident ....

I suspect it is all a matter of perspective .... I wouldn't feel safe travelling around NYC public transport, yet would quite happily do the same in London ... for NYers it might be the other way round.

Mark

Forum Moderator

Please end this post now or it will be removed. This is a forum for travel and travel related questions, comments, etc. This is not a place to debate non-travel issues. Please go to cnn.com, cspan.com or somewhere else to debate those issues. Thank you

Jerry

How timely: more than 350 soccer fans were jalied this week for fighting/rioting at the Euro 2000 matches.

Go away whoever is trying to impersonate the forum Moderator. They'll yank your access if you're not careful.

Marion

Last night Dateline had a 1-hour program on this. It showed the tapes and interviewed both victims and on-lookers. At last count over 50 women were molested.

The non-reaction of the police is quite understandable given their recent problems when they have reacted with force in justified circumstances.

I feel the police were sending a message: "this is what your city will be like if the normal law-abiding citizen refuses to speak up for us".

Travel to NYC? Yes, but as in any city exercise caution. Change your path/route if you spot a "gang" ahead. Avoid darker less traveled routes at night. Etc. etc.

Gina

"Reacted with force in justified circumstances"? Um, how exactly is it "justified" to shoot a man 41 times because he's reaching for his wallet? Or to shoot and kill another man because he gets ticked off at being approached an undercover cop posing as a guy selling drugs? (How dare that man get huffy with our undercover drug pusher! He was supposed to buy something so we could arrest him!)

I have dated a cop and I have the utmost respect for what they do, but that doesn't trump their need to be responsibile for their actions. Marion, if you honestly think that police officers can and should respond to legitimate inquiries into the deaths of innocent, unarmed men at the hands of police officers by ignoring blatant acts of violence and sexual molestation right in front of their eyes...then I feel tremendously sorry for you.