In the final analysis isn't the number one reason to travel, or live in a place, the people? Well with that in mind, it is my goal to find that place in the United States that has the "best people". I understand there are good and bad people everywhere and it is subjective what makes the people "good," but here goes:

The City/State that has the best people would have the highest percentage of people who do the following things:

* They take care of their homes and care about the community. (Cities with neat and tidy neighborhoods, parks and streets get extra credit)

* They value education and are always trying to improve themselves. (Cities with lots of professionals or learned trade people get extra credit)

* They do everything possible to make themselves attractive. (Cities with an attractive group of people get extra credit)

* They are friendly and respect others. (Cities with lots of smiles and low crime rates would great extra credit.)

See where I am coming from?

Please vote for the City/State with the best people.

(Oh, I have lived all over the Country and my vote goes to Minnesota and Minneapolis)

I think what you are talking about are cities of wealth. Do you really think values come from just being brought up right. It takes privilege to provide the space where these ideas can be adequately explored. Just find it a bit (don't want to be harsh here) but alarmed that you believe all these things you listed come from individuals and are not rooted in economics.

Minnesota and Minneapolis not a place people seeking diversity would flock to.
Variety is the spice of life dalink! I am sorry to say I think the lack of it in your life may have led you to some of these assumptions. I have a different criteria. Jessy Ventura country and people there prize education? That is a hard one to swallow. I would look to Massachusetts for an example of a state committed to education and social welfare. Sorry maybe you were not referring to social welfare when you were talking about clean communities. This is automatically where my mind jumps. You can find plenty of clean neighborhoods on Madison avenue here in Manhattan but does it really mean anything if they are not working to improve everyone’s quality of life. That is what makes good folks in my book.

I look for a thriving creative community in the performing as well as visual arts, liberal politics and a huge array of cultures. Cripes what else are you going to do on a Saturday? You can only go to so many main street parades. I want Salsa, Mambo, Bon, Belly and any other kind of dance. I am super big on ethnic food. I love to travel so like to get some of that when I am home. I guess we have different scales Dave. I look at how women progress in a state because I am one. I live in NYC and why move somewhere that is living in the 70’s. I also want to know how a legislature votes in particular states. People might seem wonderful in Virginia if they don’t have the right to choose why would I subject my daughters of myself to their laws. In terms of schools I want to know how competitive they are nationally. I also want to know how creative and innovative they are with teaching methods.

Most of this stuff keeps me in NYC but I know this city falls very short in other quality of life issues like seeing the stars for instance. So I am still considering the best places. From what I found so far states not cities like Vermont, Massachusetts, California, Hawaii, and New Mexico (need more research on this last one) have pulled my interest.

"Best people" = "most attractive people"? Arghhhh. You just took yourself off my list.

I'll nominate Onawa, IA, Cherry Hill, NJ, and Candor, NC, because my criteria are varied and variable and I'll bet you've never been there.

Sorry, Sharon, but I have to believe that you've never been to Minneapolis.
I lived there for awhile in the 90's and I believe David's perspective is correct about that particular city. It is a very liberal city overall (for the midwest...almost an oxymoron) and is quite diverse IMO. Excellent theatrical vitality, broad array of sports, educationally progressive, clean city, old fashioned work ethic and attitude about personal integrity IMO (relative to the coasts). I've often said that if it weren't for the crummy winter weather MPLS would be one of the five most populous cities in the US.

Sharon, you're way off with the New Mexico suggestion. I won't bother to elaborate except to say that Santa Fe does not a state make.

Other cities to consider:
(In general, the larger the city, the harder it seems to fulfill the 'niceness' criterion)
Austin, Texas
Boise, Idaho
Santa Barbara (except that people can be very private unless you've been there awhile)
Boulder, Colorado
Charlottesville, VA
Madison, Wisconsin (although the 'beautiful people' criterion will be a stretch to cover).
Charlotte, NC

Jerry, I found Santa Fe to be something of a tourist trap I was speaking largely of the country side in other areas of the state and again DIVERSITY to be it's attractive traits. I like the creative culture there but not all art is quality art. As I mentioned I would need to know more about NM to judge it's quality, so I welcome your elaborations here. One thing that did alarm me was an abundance of Born Again Christian television in NM. I am aware of the poverty but again I would need to gage that with other factors. White white, no crime and sports people not for me.

Your right I have not spent significant time in Minneapolis but have visited. I accept that I am speaking from expectations and what friend's have complained about living there. I just don’t think you are going to find the level of diversity that other cities offer. Spend time in Honolulu, NYC, DC to see what I am talking about. I also feel more connected to the international community when there is a significant presence where I am living.

Dave's descriptions kind of fulfills every stereotype I have in my head about people in that area. And I might add the sports thing looms in my head. I am very athletic on my own but the Midwest jock culture is not for me. Just seems counter to a sophisticated city culture. Big cities have the Yankee and .... and ...ok I don't know any others but I look for more varied experiences in a city.

Thoughtful comments all, and appreciated, Sharon.

David's criteria were:
Clean/cared for neighborhoods
Good educational system and educated residents
Physically attractive people
Friendly, respectful people

Your criteria for a great city seem to be:
International culture and ethnic heterogeneity
Lack of Christian (conservative??)influence
And muted sports culture (since sports culture and sophistication are mutually exclusive(?)

I would venture to suggest that the number of cities which might fulfill both sets of criteria is very small.
But one thing seems clear. Your definition of a 'desirable city' is quite different than David's.

I'm curious about a couple of your assumptions. Why do you consider cities with large numbers of sports fans to lack sophistication? NYC and Chicago are hotbeds of sports fanaticism, but I think you'll get a lot of flack for suggesting these cities lack sophistication.
And are you implying that religion and poverty are typically intertwined, and that religious television shows are to be scarce in a 'desirable city', or were these separate thoughts? Ever count the number of hours of religious programming available on non-network television in NYC?

I'm not flaming you here at all. I'm only curious about your take on these issues and your reasoning.

I do see a link between economics and fundamentalist of any religion. You just don't see the numbers of fundamentalist Christians in affiluent communities. Do people go to church in affluent communities, yes but the real zealots are usually disadvantaged. Ride up to Harlem on a Sunday you will hear more preachers shouting than you will in more central areas of Manhattan.

Forget NY consider any impoverished area of the US. then compare it with any affluent area nearby where are you going to find penticostal churches? I have only seen these churches in areas of high unemployment usually in the countryside. I just think desparation breeds religious fundamentalist. No need for money now we will get ours in heaven.

We get regligious programing here but not morning noon night the way I saw it in NM. Again limmitted experience but these shows were in addition to the national shows we get in NYC. We do not have a high or even medium number of locally produced religious programing and I am speaking of Christian, Jewish or anything else.

We do have the sports groupies here but it does not define culture here the way it does in Chicago or the South that is for certain. Only visited Chicago and again listen to friends that for work reasons live in the area. They find Chicago very one dimensional. I was surprised at this but the complaint I hear most is they feel it does not have the diversity of other cities.

As for Dave's ideal place to live. Come on he has pretty superfical ideas about what makes quality. Why do you think he has only received our responses, no one is connecting.

The people who have responded so far have misunderstood my question and comments. I was trying to define what America defines as good traits in people and just came up with a few examples. I was not looking for a place with attractive people but a place where people care about their appearance. See examples of positive personal traits in my first posting.

I still maintain that there are places in America where their is a higher percentage of people who display the traits that the majority of Americans feel are positive. I want to visit and/ or live in those places.

Where are they?

When everyone is the same around you I guess it is easy to assume you know who the majority of Americans are and what they think.

One thing I'd take issue with, Sharon (among others) is that diversity is necessary for optimal quality of life. That is, diversity where one resides. When I'm working 10-11 per day I have so little time to interact with my city environment, I'm not sure it would matter if I were living in Bismarck or Brussels.
BUT, when I tarvel, I always seek out the things which are different from my home environment, the diversity which seems to enrich most lives.
Sad to say that work and 'treadmill tasks' dominate most people's daily lives to the exclusion of all else, but that's life in the good ole' USA....home of the lowest per worker vacation allowances in the world. Fortunately I get lots more than the avg, but....

Yeah but what about your weekends or simply eating out. Here in Manhattan I rarely eat in because of a busy schedule. It is so great to pick between so many different ethnic cuisines every night. And one jaunt through the Met is like traveling. You can walk through whole sections dedicated to works of specific countries.

When I lived in Honolulu I learned how much I was not seeing about Asian culture. The food, the bon dances and philosophy's I picked up piece meal in daily life was far outshined by anything I could have picked up in NYC where it became obvious to me I was not seeking. We have an Asian community here I was just not going to any community events. It was all very fun in Honolulu and made me feel younger to be learning new things.

I think if you approach your daily living from the traveling perspective and you are in an environment where there is an opportunity to learn other cultures, you can really enrich your life. Just a thought if this sort of thing interest you on travels.

I do tell friends who are in areas where they feel they can't find this stuff to seek out the Americana that fames that region. All areas do hold there own charm and if you can't find a bon dance check out a state fair or country auction. I am always looking for fire house bbq or oyster frys if I am in a small town. It is all about traveling in your own life and remembering what is special where ever you are.

I also work 10-12 hours minimum 5 days a week and pull in some weekends upon occasion.

I also work 10-12 hours minimum 5 days a week and put in some weekends upon occasion.

HI

Obviously, you're using Minnesota as the yardstick for where you think the city has the best people. Your criteria I think are ultimately catering to your perceptions of what makes best people--other may look for creativity, worldliness, open-mindedness, people with joie de vivre, to name a few you didn't mention. But I have a few comments on YOUR criteria:

1. *They do everything possible to make themselves attractive (or as you say later care about their appearance).

That's really in the eye of the beholder. After spending time in Nigeria with all the colorful embroidered dresses, pants, shirts and hats (for men & women), coming back to Europe or America, the vast majority seemed to dress in a bland colorless fashion...it seemed that no one cared how they looked. After spending time in Europe, where people dress in a stylish fashion, the prevalence of white sneakers and T-shirts and that clothing generally seemed dull and conformist in the middle America...lacking utterly in creativity, and appearing as if people didn't care about their appearance. On the other hand, when I wore my beautifully embroidered purple daishiki in Brussels and Williamsburg, Va., people looked at me funny in the former AND asked why I was wearing that outfit in the latter...probably thinking I was dressing in an unbecoming manner.

2. * They care about homes and about the community.---You judge this by neat & tidy neighborhoods. That's fine. But what about: For people that care about their community, wanting to reduce traffic congestion and automobile exhaust pollution, having good public transportation is important. Minneapolis/St. Paul does not fare nearly so well in this regard next to other American cities. A coworker who came from there commented how much better the public transport in Baltimore is relatively, and Baltimore I would say has the weakest of major cities in the Northeast!

3. *Friendly and respect others. -Respect is something I think most people value throughout the world. FRIENDLY--would you rather have strangers saying "HI" walking down the street or people that might not say "HI" but when they do interact with you, will interact in meaningful ways? Also, some small towns can be friendly but can be equally intrusive in the lives of others.

Lastly, on Jerry's comment, even though much time is spent at work (at which one will interact with a more diverse lot in a more diverse city), I think heterogeneity enriches one's life on a weekly basis in so many ways. I think myself and many others would be bored and feeling a void in someplace very homogeneous, which would in turn detract from our quality of life.

My thoughts. DAN

Judging by this thread, I'd say the city/state that has the best people is obviously the one with the lowest number of people connected to the internet per capita.

David:

Even though I'm from Pittsburgh, PA, the friendliest people are in the South, pick any city or state. This is just from my experience.

I can't believe how much time has been spent overanalyzing this. David merely asked for thoughts on nice cities to live and gave some criteria for consideration.

Also, for those posters who put in 10-12 hours per day (?plus commuting) ... perhaps too much time spent (at work?) overanalyzing what could just be an interesting thread in getting perspectives from various people on different cities in the U.S.

Cal and Just an observation sorry you have such a problem with thinking. Disagreement is not over analysis. Interesting but not surprising given your remarks how neither of you was able to make a contribution of your own cities. As for how long people are working I do not know any middle class professionals who work a 9-5 schedule.

My votes go for SF and Boston.

P.S. Commuters are most likely your 9-5 set if they are around at all.

David, to answer your question without judgement, I believe where I live, a small town in Fairfield County, Connecticut, most definetely not only meets but exceeds your criteria. Greenwich, Fairfield, Westport and Weston Connecticut have all of the qualities you are looking for. I would include New Canaan and Darien but they are still a bit elitist in their attitudes there. Nearly all the homes and lawns are beautifully cared for and maintained, education is not only revered but almost obsessively valued and sought, and most people dress nicely, stay in shape and are concerned with their appearances. Despite the fact that some think New Englanders are cold, everyone here is very friendly. I can't go to any public place in town without running into a friend and stopping to chat or at least to say hello.

Greenwhich is one of the most horrible places on Earth! They are being sued because they are trying to prevent anyone not from Greenwhich from entering their beaches/parks. You can't even row a boat through Long Island Sound and swim to shore! They are so stuck up and generally terrified of folks of color. They recently caused their local businesses to disable their powerball lottery machines because people from New York will cross the state line and enter Greenwhich to by powerball tickets. The people who own a convenience store and make money off powerball DO NOT live in Greenwhich and are hurt by this. Greenwhich does not support many of the freedoms upon which this country was founded. The other Fairfield County towns named are beautiful but not all that different. I live and work in this area. Most of the people who have beautiful lawns pay someone else to take care of them. It's not like all the neighbors are out pushing mowers on the weekend talking about who's house they're watching the game at this weekend.

The average person in the US has nothing in common with the folks of Fairfield County CT.