Watch Belmont in NYC ??
Jun 4th, 2004, 07:03 AM
#2
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I second this question... I'll be at a daytime wedding in midtown which will (hopefully!) be over by posttime, and a whole bunch of the guests are looking for a bar that will be having a Belmont party of some sort. Obviously it won't be too tough to find a bar showing the race, but it would be great to go to a place where the bar and the crowd are really into it. Can anyone help out me and marciap42?
Jun 4th, 2004, 08:36 AM
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bradk,
AFAIK, any place could turn the TV channel to NBC(official home of the race) since it's a free, public television network. I can't see what laws would stop any bar/restaurant/hotel etc. from turning on your local NBC affiliate channel.
AFAIK, any place could turn the TV channel to NBC(official home of the race) since it's a free, public television network. I can't see what laws would stop any bar/restaurant/hotel etc. from turning on your local NBC affiliate channel.
Jun 4th, 2004, 08:48 AM
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it means that anyone with a tv can tune in to watch it, but there are still copyright laws in effect which can control who has the ability to broadcast it and in what capacity. akin to the warning that often occurs before baseball games that explicitly disallow any other viewing other than home use.
whether or not an establishment chooses to honor that pending having 'prior written consent' is their own consideration, but i think the larger establishments may be more prone to not taking advantage of the fact it's on public airwaves (not public television by the way, which is exempt from FCC regulations).
i think if anything, it might have to do with the ratings system. one giant tv serving a thousand people is more harmful to the network than a thousand people watching it on a thousand small tvs.
i'm just adding this because ESPNZone specifically mentions other events, so I wouldn't want anyone to go there expecting to see it. If anything, one should call ahead to check. It would be a great place to watch it if they are in fact showing it.
whether or not an establishment chooses to honor that pending having 'prior written consent' is their own consideration, but i think the larger establishments may be more prone to not taking advantage of the fact it's on public airwaves (not public television by the way, which is exempt from FCC regulations).
i think if anything, it might have to do with the ratings system. one giant tv serving a thousand people is more harmful to the network than a thousand people watching it on a thousand small tvs.
i'm just adding this because ESPNZone specifically mentions other events, so I wouldn't want anyone to go there expecting to see it. If anything, one should call ahead to check. It would be a great place to watch it if they are in fact showing it.
Jun 4th, 2004, 10:08 AM
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You can show an event that's broadcast over public airwaves - you just can't charge people to view it.(An event over pay-per-view would be restricted.)
In terms of the ESPN Zone showing the race, the fact that it is a horse race where gambling is involved likely doesn't matter. I mean, Vegas allows betting on football and the ESPN Zone's shows those games.
Neither ESPN or ABC are showing Sporting Events at the same time that they'd view as real competition for a race broadcast on NBC, so can't imagine they won't turn on the race. Said another way, can't imagine they'd have very many sports fans stay when they find out that a WNBA game is being shown instead of the race.
In terms of the ESPN Zone showing the race, the fact that it is a horse race where gambling is involved likely doesn't matter. I mean, Vegas allows betting on football and the ESPN Zone's shows those games.
Neither ESPN or ABC are showing Sporting Events at the same time that they'd view as real competition for a race broadcast on NBC, so can't imagine they won't turn on the race. Said another way, can't imagine they'd have very many sports fans stay when they find out that a WNBA game is being shown instead of the race.
Jun 4th, 2004, 10:23 AM
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it's honestly not that cut and dry... that's part of it, but according to US Copyright code, which does limit transmission to home viewing use, the exemptions allowed additionally require permission from the copyright holder.
The copyright code is here:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ch1.html
the exemptions which would allow an establishment to broadcast television is here:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/110.html
there was a whole big issue a couple years back regarding music in establishments to pursuant to changes made in the codes in terms of ascap collecting royalties for music played, etc.
The copyright code is here:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ch1.html
the exemptions which would allow an establishment to broadcast television is here:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/110.html
there was a whole big issue a couple years back regarding music in establishments to pursuant to changes made in the codes in terms of ascap collecting royalties for music played, etc.
Jun 4th, 2004, 10:31 AM
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i also want to add since Ryan touched upon it: if ABC was the one airing the race, it would be more likely for ESPNZone to show it since they're both owned by Disney. Consequently, it might be harder for ESPNZone to get permission as NBC is competition.
Since it is NBC, it might actually be shown on the jumbotron in times square (if you don't mind standing around a long time and not drinking).
Since it is NBC, it might actually be shown on the jumbotron in times square (if you don't mind standing around a long time and not drinking).
Jun 4th, 2004, 10:45 AM
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So I just called the ESPNZone in Times Square and they said they will not know if they are showing it or not until after 4PM today. That is when the event sheet comes out.
Brad, if they aren't charging a cover, how would they not be able to broadcast? After all, the advertisers are paying for this race not viewers.
What a windfall for NBC!
Brad, if they aren't charging a cover, how would they not be able to broadcast? After all, the advertisers are paying for this race not viewers.
What a windfall for NBC!
Jun 4th, 2004, 10:56 AM
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because it's copyright laws. mind you it's a civil matter, so if the copyright holder had an issue with someone broadcasting it, they'd have to go after the broadcaster themselves, but the law requires that any person who rebroadcasts for purposes other than home viewing have permission, usually done as written consent for proof. not charging for viewing is only part of it. the advertising aspect is altogether different. it's not about monies, it's about the right of the creator to maintain integrity and ownership of their product, subject to fair use and other exemptions.
Jun 4th, 2004, 11:41 AM
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I would suggest the Park Ave Country Club (I think that's the right name), it's on Park Ave 27th or 26th, it's right on the corner. They show all kinds of sporting events, so my guess would be the race would be shown.
We are getting on the Long Island Railroad and going to the race. I was there when Secretariat (spelling?) won so would love to see this one too. Have to admit I am not a race fan, but the horses are so beautiful and it's kind of fun to be there to see a tiny bit of history.
We are getting on the Long Island Railroad and going to the race. I was there when Secretariat (spelling?) won so would love to see this one too. Have to admit I am not a race fan, but the horses are so beautiful and it's kind of fun to be there to see a tiny bit of history.
Jun 4th, 2004, 12:08 PM
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This is a silly debate. Congress gave the national networks the right to broadcast over the public airwaves and it's all free, under the condition that the network can't charge anybody that's catching the signal from the air, whether it's an individual or a business. The Supreme Court ruled back in the 30s that the airwaves belong to the public.
Any network/station that sends a signal over the public airwaves can't stop anybody from catching the signal and that includes the sports bars.
Let's stop this silly debate, because it's not even remotely possible.
Most bars these days get their signal from cable/satelite provider. They do pay for the service from the provider, but that's a far as it goes. Pay-per-view, special events are not broadcast over the airwaves, thus they could charge whatever they want, however they want.
It's that simple. The legal stuff you see at the end of programing is related to taping the stuff and re-selling it for business, not for watching it, whether privately or publicly.
Any network/station that sends a signal over the public airwaves can't stop anybody from catching the signal and that includes the sports bars.
Let's stop this silly debate, because it's not even remotely possible.
Most bars these days get their signal from cable/satelite provider. They do pay for the service from the provider, but that's a far as it goes. Pay-per-view, special events are not broadcast over the airwaves, thus they could charge whatever they want, however they want.
It's that simple. The legal stuff you see at the end of programing is related to taping the stuff and re-selling it for business, not for watching it, whether privately or publicly.
Jun 4th, 2004, 12:20 PM
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also, i agree this is beating a dead horse (who won't win at belmont by the way), but the issue here is not use of 'public airwaves,' but copyright law. just because i buy a book, it doesn't give me a right to post its contents.
Jun 4th, 2004, 12:34 PM
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bradk,
Wat does buying a book have to do with anything?
NBC bought the rights to show the race to the general public, so it's their right to show it over their airwaves.
When you buy a book, you buy a right to read, use and keep the book. I'm sure if you approached the publisher and offered a satisfactory amount of money to turn the book into a movie(happens every day), the publisher would be happy to sell you that right. The organizers of the race sold NBC that right, to show it to the general public and however NBC makes the money back is their problem. They do it through commercials, because they can't charge the public directly, because ONCE AGAIN, they are using OUR airwaves according to the US Supreme Court ruling back in the mid-30s. The signal is allowed to be caught and presented by anybody and everybody.
Wat does buying a book have to do with anything?
NBC bought the rights to show the race to the general public, so it's their right to show it over their airwaves.
When you buy a book, you buy a right to read, use and keep the book. I'm sure if you approached the publisher and offered a satisfactory amount of money to turn the book into a movie(happens every day), the publisher would be happy to sell you that right. The organizers of the race sold NBC that right, to show it to the general public and however NBC makes the money back is their problem. They do it through commercials, because they can't charge the public directly, because ONCE AGAIN, they are using OUR airwaves according to the US Supreme Court ruling back in the mid-30s. The signal is allowed to be caught and presented by anybody and everybody.
