Malesherbes

(OK, travel related! ) Will someone please explain to me why an athlete thinks he can somehow "fool" the drug tests and get away with it? I just don't get it.

Barbara

I don't think Landis DID try to fool the test. He's not stupid enough to try to use an illegal drug in the first place, after year of having a reputation of being very clean. Also, he's not stupid enough to try to get a quick infusion of energy from a drug that wouldn't even give him that. Plus, it's very easy to test for this particular steroid. The tests may show synthetic testosterone, what they don't show is how it got there. There are a lot of athletes who claim innocence whom I do not believe, but I do believe Landis. Given that the Tour de France spent seven years trying to prove Lance Armstrong took illegal drugs, despite there being no positive tests at all, why would anyone believe anything that comes out of the same lab?

As I said on the long thread about this on the Europe board, if winning is important enough for some athletes to take drugs or whatever to achieve the desired result, then keeping the competition from winning, or the wrong nationality from winning, is automaticlly just as important. I do not believe Landis knowingly took anythign. I would not be at all surprised to find out the either someone put something in a drink of his, or even more blatantly, the sample was tampered with.

mikemo

I agree with Barbara.
The testing procedure (not to mention motive) in France is certainly suspect.
M

LoveItaly

Mikemo, in the future could the sample (I don't even know if it is blood or urine) be sent to two different labs in two different countries? If that was possible it would be interesting if both labs came up with the same results.

I have wondered the same thing that malesherbes has posted here. I assume Landis knew he would be tested, correct?

Underhill

Certainly Landis knew he would be tested. Given his reputation as such a straight arrow and the poor reputation of the testing lab, I find the entire situation suspicious.

LoveItaly

Hi Underhill, that is what I thought, I didn't think the drug test was a BIG surprise, lol.

CAPH52

I agree with the consensus so far on this thread. Aside from the fact that I don't think Landis is stupid enough to think he wouldn't get caught, I think, given the fact that he's been competing for so long, he wanted to win far too badly to take any chances of tainting that win.

Malesherbes

I didn't realize this had already been posted on the Europe board--I'll have to look over there. (When I posted this, in the back of my mind I did think someone would probably tell me I'd posted it on the wrong board. )

Is the test given randomly, or is everyone tested? If everyone...why would anyone risk the ignominy? I hadn't considered tampering with the sample... or dishonesty in the lab. I would think though, that the fact that Lance's samples never came up positive for anything, would speak to the honesty of the lab, rather than dishonesty. Others wanted so desperately to discredit him, but were unable to.

CAPH52

Good point, Malesherbes. But I wonder whether they felt Landis to be an easier target than Armstrong?

Barbara

I know that stage winners and, I think, overal leader are tested. I don;t know if there is random testing. Landis had already had six negative tests during the Tour this year, so it's even more strange that this one would be positive.

TheWeasel

I think the various bogus explanations given by Landis and his people for the positive test results are suspicious. If you're clean, why bother coming up with cockeyed theories as to why you tested positive like: cortisone shots, dehydration, drinking beer/whisky, natural metabolism. It seems to me like they're trying to throw out every possible idea just to see if something sticks; in other words, try to create a reasonable doubt in someone's mind so they can hopefully win on appeal.

I really don't think this can be explained away by claiming the testing lab didn't want an American to win. Nor can Landis be assumed to be squeaky clean because he's got a good reputation. There are plenty of athletes who compete for years at a high level with not even a hint of cheating, and then they test positive for something. It's probably safer to assume they were cheating and managed to get away with it, rather than assume the lab is out to get them.

Barbara

"Why bother coming up with cockeyed theories?"

How about because he knows he didn't take anything and he's trying to figure out where in the heck this result came from?

mah1980

Barbara: Do you have some independent knowledge of Landis or basis for thinking he's either too smart or not stupid enough to dry fooling the drug tests?

I've followed this story and I haven't found anything to lead me to believe that Landis didn't try to fool the test or any empirical evidence regarding his intelligence or lack thereof.

lcuy

My firend, who is the manager of a drug testing Lab, had a theory that makes sense.

\Landis had just had that horrible day where he ended blowing his entire lead, and it looked like there was no way he could come back and win. His damaged hip was causing him incredible pain. He may have figured, i'm not going to win, but I'd really like to just finish. Since he didn't think he'd win, he figured there was a decent chance he wouldn't be tested, and just took the drugs to let him compete.

Winning was unexpected, drug testing of the winner is mandatory, and his choices made in a moment of desperation came back to haunt him.

Not sure what else to think, much as I really hate to see him stripped of the title.

LLindaC

If he wanted to do well and get rid of his pain, testosterone is not the drug of choice. Hydrocodone maybe....

aileen679

That's an explanation that I can buy. I think I would have probably done the same thing, and then when everything was going so well, the finish line became too important. It would have been very, very hard to slow down and let someone else win.

If this is what happened, it's a shame that he tried to cover it up. Most of us could accept taking something just to be able to finish, but lying about it, makes it into something much more difficult to handle.

caniac

I prefer to just blame the French!

TheWeasel

Sorry guys (and gals) but testosterone does have a postive effect on short-term recovery. While it's thought of mainly as a long-term muscle builder, it can improve recovery time after exercise. It makes perfect sense that he would've taken some (and unintentionally overdosed) right after his horrible performance in stage 16, and then bounced back and crushed everyone the next day. It's certainly not commonly done because it's too easy to detect, but I'm sure he and his trainers thought they had a way around that.

He rides for a team that has a history of doping problems, including another rider that tested positive for testosterone in '05. All of his excuses were confined to explaining how he could have such an elevated ratio (mostly that he naturally produced excess testosterone) - and when it was revealed that there was synthetic testosterone involved, he suddenly went quiet. It's his responsibility to show how it could've gotten into his body, but he offers up no explanation. Sounds like someone who knows he's been caught and has no way out.

travelinwifey

It's not loking good. I thought there was a possibility someone spiked the first sample but since the second sample was stored in a different location it's not looking good. I'm all for conspiracy theories but to me he's looking guilty at this point I don't want him to be

tovarich

Would you guys still think the test was tampered with if the athlete were french or spanish ???? The french have some of the best labs in the world so lets not be chauvinistic.The pressure on these athletes is becoming just too much.You could also say that Landis's miraculous revival was due to divine intervention. Paul