alines

Help, we are being transferred to Australia very soon and have 17 days up our sleeve to travel around the Southwest and see as much as possible as it is likely to be a long time before we make it back to this part of the world. The following is a brief itinerary (still working on it given the short fuse we are under), so any tips/comments/accommodation recommendations would be much appreciated as well as any "must see" or "must do" things in each location:

Day 1: Pick-up rental car at LAX and drive to Las Vegas

Day 2: Drive to Hoover Dam then up route 169 to Zion NP

Day 3: Drive to Bryce Canyon NP after lunch

Day 4: Drive to Capitol Reef NP after lunch

Day 5: Drive to Moab

Day 6&7: Explore Canyonland NP and Arches NP

Day 8: Drive to Mesa Verde NP

Day 9: Drive to South Rim of Grand Canyon NP via Monument Valley

Day 10&11: Explore South Rim of Grand Canyon NP

Day 12: Drive to Sedona

From this point on we are still undecided on our itinerary but tentatively are thinking of the following:

Day 13: Drive to Twenty Nine Palms. I'm worried this is too much driving for one day. Is there anywhere in between recommended as a stop over, or am I better off biting the bullet and driving all day?

Day 14: Drive through Joshua Tree NP to Palm Springs

Day 15: Drive to San Diego

Day 16: Day trip to Tijuana (is it worth it?)

Day 17: Drive to LAX (need to be there by 5pm)

Normally I would be a lot more prepared and have done a lot more research on my itinerary however I only have less than a week to organise this trip and therefore would greatly appreciate any tips/comments from my fellow Fodorites.

One last thing, we are travelling with my parents-in-law, so we will have to rule out any strenuous hikes.

Patrick

Wow. I suspect that what you are going to see the most of on this trip is the steering wheel of the car. That is an awful lot of driving to get to places to "see them" for an overnight and maybe a morning visit.

I'd cut it way down as you will spend more time driving that you will "seeing".

First thing I'd cut is the trip to Tijuana. I'd actually visit San Diego instead of just sleeping there one night.

I'd also cut out a few of those parks, particularly Mesa Verde, which I think is a long extra distance out of the way. When would you explore it?

utahtea

Yes, it's a lot of driving, but I'm sure you realize that. It seems like a pretty good plan if you aren't going to do much hiking.

Cutting out Mesa Verde only saves you 168 miles. I would consider spending the night after Mesa Verde in Monument Valley and then you could spend more time in the morning at Mesa Verde and have more time at Monument Valley.

Tijuana is the only place I've never been on your route. I would be tempted to forget Tijuana and maybe even San Diego since you won't have much time there to really see anything. You could then spend more time at the national parks.

Utahtea

JJ5

Tijauna is not worth any detour, IMHO. I would give more time to San Diego instead. And I would cut out at least one of the earlier detours and pause longer in Sedona to relax a bit. You are driving so much that you may be gazing at your surroundings with glazed eyes by then. Of course, only you know your energy level, but you are really moving here.

Dayle

Hi A,

Honestly, this sounds like the trip to hell to me. Did you ever see the old move, "If It's Tuesday, this Must be Belguim"?! If not, you might want to rent it.

All you are going to do is drive and see things from out the window.

Here is my suggestion. First, cut half your destinations. Second, fly into Las Vegas and save yourself 4 1/2 hours of the most boring driving you might ever do!

Personally, I would just skip Sedona, Palm Springs, San Diego and especially Tijuana! IMO, Sedona is ruined by development, Palm Springs isn't in the same class so not worth taking time away from the awesome national parks. San Diego is nice, BUT they don't really have anything to offer that Australia doesn't have 10 times over - wildlife (zoo) and sea life (Sea World). Joshua Tree is nice too, but again, not worth shorting time in the other destinations.

How about:

fly into Vegas & pick up car
Hoover Dam
2 days Zion
1 day Bryce
2 days Boulder/Capitol Reef
4 days Moab/Arches/Canyonlands
2 days Mesa Verde
1 day Monument Valley
2 days Grand Canyon
Sedona if you must, then fly out of Phoenix?

Utahtea will probably give you driving times and distances, she is great with that stuff. I assume you have never been to the west? Most people grossly underestimate distances and how much time they will be spending driving (although the scenery is great) vs. actually at their destinations.

Good luck and if you end up doing your original plan, you definitely owe a trip report! You'll love Australia!

utahtea

I would pick Dayle's trip!

If you want mileages and estimated times...just let me know.

Utahtea

alines

Thanks for all the quick responses and giving me a reality check. I agree that I may have been a bit overly ambitious at the back end of the trip, and your comments have helped me put our priorities in perspective. In particular, our main goal is to see as many of the National Parks as possible in the short time frame that we have. To this extent we have dropped all the major cities from the back end of our trip. Unfortunately because of precommitments we are committed to flying into and out of LAX and therefore have resigned ourselves to the fact that the first and possibly the last two days of our trip will be spent driving.

Our itinerary is now resembling something more akin to what you have suggested Dayle:

Day 1: Pick-up rental car at LAX and drive to Las Vegas (286.61 miles, 4h, 18m)

Day 2: Drive to Hoover Dam then up route 169 to Zion NP (is this detour worth it or am I better driving straight to Zion?)

Day 3: Zion NP

Day 4: Drive to Bryce Canyon NP (82.73 miles, 1h, 48m)

Day 5: Drive to Torrey (Capitol Reef NP) (111.93miles, 2h,37m). Dayle you suggested 2 days here. I haven't heard a lot about this NP, is it really deserving of 2 days, or am I better off getting here first thing in the morning and spending one full day and night here. Or are you suggesting I split my time, one night in Boulder and another night in or near the entrance to the Park (eg Torrey?)

Day 6: Drive to Moab (156.08 miles, 3h, 19m)

Day 7: Explore Canyonland NP

Day 8: Explore Arches NP

Question: Dayle, you suggested an extra day in this area. I'm just conscious with my parents-in-law we will not be able to do any strenuous hiking, this being the case, do you think that we can get a good flavour of each NP by spending one full day in each?

Day 9: Drive to Mesa Verde NP (114.51 miles, 2h, 23m)

Day 10: Mesa Verde NP

Day 11: Drive to Monument Valley (144.88 miles, 3h, 11m)Is it worth making a detour through Canyons of the Ancients NM(in which case I should probably add another day in Monument Valley)?

Day 12: Drive to Canyon De Chelly (95.02miles, 2h, 56m) This is an add on to my original itinerary given our priority is to see NP's & NM's. Not a 100% sure on this destination and thinking of dropping it in order to make the drive to Grand Canyon shorter. Any thoughts?

Day 13: Drive to South Rim of Grand Canyon NP (231.56 miles, 5h, 4m)

Day 14: South Rim of Grand Canyon NP

Day 15: South Rim of Grand Canyon NP

Day 16: We need to drive to a destination that is close enough to LA so we don't have to far to drive the next day to catch our flight the next day, yet it is far enough away so we don't have that "city" feel of LA (if you know what I mean?). This is why I was thinking of Palm Springs, however from the sounds of it, this might not be the ideal place to finish our journey. Any suggestions from locals would be much appreciated.

Day 17: Drive to LAX (need to be at the airport by 5pm, which means we probably need to be at the rental car agency by 4pm)

I appreciate that there will be some days in the above itinerary that will involve a lot of driving, however I have tried to balance this with extra "days-off" that are high on our must see list. We are not adverse to driving high miles and take it as being part of the trade-off for wanting to see as much as possible in a confined amount of time.

utahtea

I would suggest two nights at Capitol Reef because the day you drive from Bryce to Torrey, you should take scenic Hwy 12 though the Escalante Grand Staircase National Monument. You are not going to want to rush though this area. You might even take a detour and drive the paved part of the Burr Trail from Boulder, Utah or visit the Anasazi State Park.

http://www.so-utah.com/hwy12/homepage.html

Capitol Reef is like an undiscovered jewel of the National Park System. It's really a very nice place to spend a day. There are two easy level hikes in Capitol Gorge and Grand Wash.
There are petroglyphs and fruit orchards and lots of history.

A day in each Arches and Canyonlands should be enough, it's just that Moab has other great areas to offer. You can find petroglphys on both the Potash Road and Kane Creek Road. These roads follow the Colorado River going west. Hwy 128 is a very scenic drive along the Colorado River going east to Fisher Towers.

Canyon de Chelly is a beautiful area. I love the view from the rim looking down on Spider Rock. You could do this one of two ways. From Mesa Verde spend one night at Monument Valley and then spend a night at Canyon de Chelly (or nearby Chinle) and drive Hwy 191 down to Hwy 264 and take that across to Tuba City. This really gives you an idea of what the reservations is like and it has some really scenic views! The other choice would be to spend the first night at Canyon de Chelly and then move to Monument Valley, but I think I would spend a night at each location.

Otherwise I think your trip looks much better.

You say your parents can't do strenuous hikes. Can they do some easy hikes? Do you mind me asking how old they are?

Utahtea

alines

Thanks utahtea

After I wrote that response, that struck me as being the case. Would you recommend spending both nights in Torrey, or splitting it up with one in Boulder and one in Torrey? I'm just trying to put some accommodation bookings in motion and figure if I can button down where I'll be staying up to Moab and then at the back end of our trip from the Grand Canyon to our last stop before LAX, I can leave the middle of the trip unbooked leaving us a little bit of flexibility in our itinerary. From what I've read it can be difficult getting accommodation in both Moab and Grand Canyon, this is why I want to try and button down accommodation and dates in these venues as soon as possible.

With respect to my parents-in-law, they're in their mid-60's and both reasonably fit, but wouldn't be able to handle full day hikes or hikes with steep grades. Relatively flat hikes or ones with gradual grades they should be able to handle. I wouldn't expect them to do more than a couple of miles though.

utahtea

We always camp, but I didn't think Moab would be hard to get lodging unless you are there during Spring Break. There are a lot of motels there.

Two nights in Torrey will give you plenty of time to explore Hwy 12 and then it will be one less time you have to pack up and change motels. Otherwise, either will work.

Hikes your parents should be able to do. Zion: Riverside Walk and maybe even the Lower Emerald Pools. Bryce: Along the rim. Capitol Reef either the Grand Wash or Capitol Gorge. Arches: Landscape Arch and the short walk to Double Arch. Canyonlands: Grandview hike is pretty level and maybe even Mesa Arch. Grand Canyon along the rim.

Utahtea

tledford

If you are driving from The Grand Canyon into the LA area and you want to drive the most direct route it would not be through Palm Springs. You would take the 40 to the 15 South.

There is not a good place to stop, that I know of on this route. I would stop in Barstow or Victorville but they are just convenient stopover towns.

Dayle

Hi again A,

Yes, the plan sounds much better now!

The hikes utahtea mentions are all good for your folks. I would add one more and that is the Park Avenue hike (if I'm remembering the name right) in Arches. If you have someone drive to the end, it's a one-way, about 1 mile level-to-slightly downhill hike.

If you are not going to do any extensive hiking, I would still take one day away from the Grand Canyon and add it to Moab. Your parents might really enjoy a 1/2 day float trip down the river. It gives you a whole different perspective. You will defintely want a full day in both parks.

If you are up for a 5 mile round trip hike, mostly level, with a fabulous reward at the end, take the time on Hwy 12 to hike Calf Creek Falls. If you do this, stay one night at the Boulder Mountain Lodge. You will need reservations here ASAP.

By the way, when are you going?

One more strong recommendation for you. Check the airfares and see what it would cost you to fly from LAX to Vegas and from Phoenix to LAX. It might be very well worth it! Once you hit southern California there is NO PLACE to stop that doesn't have the big city feel. It's all one big, never ending city.

That's why I don't live there anymore! I live in Park City, Utah.

Happy travels!

Carson

Sorry to go on a tangent for a second---but---Dayle, we are at Stein Eriksen Lodge at the minute. Any thoughts on local restaurants? Both fine and family dining would be appreciated.

laurieb_nyny

Click on my screen name & cursor down to my trip report re Utah & Colorado. We had the same amount of time. Hope it is helpful!

alines

Thanks for all the tips and advice on short hikes. Dayle, we are leaving on April 3, which is less than a week away, so you can understand our time pressure. We took your advice and booked into Boulder Mountain Lodge for Day 5 (almost booked the one in Colorado that goes by the same name by mistake!). We have cut Day 15 from the Grand Canyon to do this (i.e only leaving us one full day in the GC as opposed to 2 originally).

Given we are staying in Boulder on Day 5 and it is only a short trip (1h) from Boulder to Capitol Reef, is it feasible to drive to Capitol Reef first thing in the morning on Day 6, spend most of the Day in the NP before driving to Moab late afternoon as opposed to spending this night in Torrey (this would give us an extra day in the Arches/Canyonland region)? Or if it is not feasible to do both, is there a good place to stop the night on the road between Capitol Reef and Moab, which would mean less driving distance to Moab on Day 7?

Thanks

A

utahtea

There is only one place that I know of between Torrey and Moab that has lodging and that is Green River. We've camped there and the train tracks go right though town. Hansville might have lodging too, but that's going to make that much difference.

At this time of the year, I doubt you will need reservations in Torrey or Moab, but I could be wrong. Maybe other will know better.

What ever you decide, you are going to have a great trip with lots of interesting places to see.

Utahtea

alines

Thanks for all the tips on the hikes. Dayle, we start our trip on April 3 and have taken your advice and booked ourselves into the Boulder Mountain Lodge on Day 5. Given we are now about an hours drive from the entrance to Capitol Reef NP, as opposed to staying in Torrey on Day 6, is it possible to drive to Capitol Reef NP on Day 6, spend most of the day here and leave late afternoon for Moab. This would give us an extra full day in the Moab area. If not, is there somewhere reasonable to stay between the entrance to Capitol Reef NP and Moab that you would recommend overnighting it at, so our trip to Moab on day 7 would be shorter?

I appreciate your recommendation about flying to Vegas and out of Phoneix, and if it was just my wife and I we probably would. However, at this late stage the economics don't really work for us, particularly when including one way drop-off fees

alines

Sorry, my internet connection is playing tricks on me. Please ignore my last posting, which is a duplicate of what I posted last night

flbronc

FYI... I FINALLY found someone that didn't have a ridiculous drop off fee - Dollar's fee is $75. Good luck !

Dayle

Hi A,

Yes, if you got an early start, you could spend some good time in Capitol Reef and drive on to Moab in the same day. From Capitol Reef to Moab will take you about 2 1/2 hours. If you end this leg by driving in the dark, it would be ok. The scenery is best at the beginning between Capitol Reef and Hanksville.

April in Moab is quite popular, but not too crowded once spring break and the jeep jamboree is over. There are many lodging choices.

Have a great time!