Papsicle

Hello all,

Well, I just finished a trip to eastern Canada (http://www.fodors.com/community/cana...-requested.cfm), where I planned, sought input from Fodor's forum folks, executed the plan super successfully, and then posted a trip report Now, it's time to plan my next trip, a family trip with the folks, to the Grand Canyon.

I've read over most of the relevant posts by others. Here is what I am thinking and I could really use any input you can provide.

I will be in Flagstaff on Saturday September 26th. I'd like my folks to come to Flagstaff that evening, and I'll pick them up from the airport and drive South to Sedona for one night. Let me know if you have a decent, affordable Sedona hotel recommendation.

There, I'd like to take the Broken Arrow/Scenic Rim 3 hour Pink Jeep Tour.

http://www.pinkjeep.com/jeep-tours/s...en-arrow.shtml

People on the boards have spoken highly of this. Maybe there is something else worth seeing in Sedona after this - since we have most of the day to spend there. After taking in Sedona, I'd like to drive to the South Rim (2.5 hours), get settled, and spend Sunday night there.

Monday morning, September 28th, I'm thinking about taking the 12.5 hour Xantarra smooth water excursion:

http://www.grandcanyonlodges.com/Use...ater-flyer.pdf

Any feedback on whether this is worth doing, or does the fact that it's such a long day make it tedious....

Alternatively, I'd like to do the full-day rowing trip:

http://www.raftthecanyon.com/

This seems like it'd be leisurely and really allow for a full soaking-in of the GC from the river. I'd have to drive to and from Page with this, instead of being bussed (which may be better anyway).

Tuesday, September 29th, I'd like to just walk around, maybe go out on the glass walkway, take the shuttle that drives along the rim and get out at the various lookout points, maybe go to Tuscayan and see the IMAX movie that people recommend.

I am *thinking* (and I'm not sure yet) that a helicopter ride won't really provide much more of a benefit than the rafting trip from the river and walking around the rim from up top. I can be convinced otherwise. I don't know if/when we'll come back here.

I think we'll only stay in the South Rim area and not go to the North Rim.

Wednesday, September 30th, we'll drive back to Flagstaff and fly home from there.

When it comes to lodging, I don't mind spending $$$ to stay at El Tovar - but maybe it's wiser just to stay at Bright Angel (or something else? any recommendations?) since it's cheaper and we can just walk to the rim of the canyon from there (within a few minutes?). Plus, I can always walk around the lobby and premises of El Tovar to see what it is all about. I don't imagine we'll spend a lot of time in our rooms so we may not benefit from the balconies there.

Hopefully, rooms will be cheaper and the entire area will be less crowded because it's in Late September.

I'm flexible with all of this. Please let me know your thoughts; my parents have always looked forward to seeing the Grand Canyon, and so I want to make sure the trip is the best it can possibly be. I appreciate your time very much and look forward to your responses.

Bill_H

Looks like you have done your homework and have a good plan already in place!

Just a couple of things ... the flat water float trip is easier to do if you overnight at Page (saves several hours of driving back and forth) and there are enough interesting things to do at Page (Antelope Canyon, the dam and lake, etc) that I'd consider dropping one night at the GC and staying in Page instead.

Of the two raft trips I'd pick the rowing option.

I am *thinking* (and I'm not sure yet) that a helicopter ride won't really provide much more of a benefit than the rafting trip from the river and walking around the rim from up top. I can be convinced otherwise

Actually the flight-seeing trips give you a much different perspective than you get from either the river or the rim. I'd do it if you have the time and money.

Tuesday, September 29th, I'd like to just walk around, maybe go out on the glass walkway

The "glass walkway" (aka "Skywalk") is many hours drive to the west, outside the GC and on the Indian Reservation. It gets generally low marks from the people who have been suckered into going there. Among other problems it's very expensive, you are limited to 15 minutes on the walkway, it's not actually over the main river channel but instead over a much lower side canyon, etc etc. This is easier done from Las Vegas. From the south rim area you are visiting it's best to skip the Skywalk, I feel.

I don't mind spending $$$ to stay at El Tovar - but maybe it's wiser just to stay at Bright Angel (or something else? any recommendations?)

I've stayed at Bright Angel once, El Tovar thrice, and Maswik and Yavapai lodges several times. Basically I would only stay at El Tovar for a special occasion (wedding, hiking up from the river after a week long rafting trip are two of the occasions I stayed there) but I guess your one and only trip to the GC probably qualifies as a special occasion. The room we had at Bright Angel was very old and run-down, but Tovar and Bright Angel are right on the rim, so the location is great. Maswik and Yavapai are maybe 1/4 and 1/2 mile from the rim, and acceptable alternatives.

IMAX is a good idea, the river running scenes are priceless. Maybe catch the IMAX before deciding whether to do the chopper flight or not, there are some nice aerial shots in the IMAX film.

Basically you have a good plan already (except for skipping the Skywalk), the main change I'd suggest is staying in Page one night to save a lot of driving when you do the flat water raft trip. Antelope Canyon is worth driving to Page for.

emalloy

I agree with Bill spend the night in Page and do the raft trip from there. I'm not sure if they run trips every day late in Sept. so check to see if is only going on weekends during your stay. Do go to Antelope canyon and you can just go there on your own and arrange for a Navajo guide, you don't need to be in a group from town and then have them hand you over to the guide. In GC, Thunderbird and Kachina are both on the rim, between elTovar and Bright Angle lodge and both are ok motel type places, some rooms have a view but all are right there. If they say they are full, take the Xanterra number and keep calling as they bet cancellations all the time.

Myer

I stayed at the BW Inn of Sedona a couple of years ago. It had been renovated and had the look and feel of a new place. Excellent breakfast was included.

Very good location. Very close to the main road but up a bit of a hill removing it from any road noice.

Ask for a 3rd level (actually the main level) backing Chimney Rock. These rooms have one door to the parking lot and the other to a patio with an amazing view. They're very close to the office and breakfast room.

The Broken Arrow Pink Jeep tour is excellent. I didn't take but hike the trail. Several jeeps passed me as their road and trail crossed. The jeep tour is quite bumpy but the people seemed to be having a great time.

In Page I would definitely recommend Antelope Canyon. You can just drive to the parking lot ,apy and a guide will drive you there. It takes about 10 minutes in a bumpy, open, sandy ride. But the Canyon is worth it. Once there it's a very simple, level walk from front to back. Nothing difficult.

Just make sure you're there when the sun is high in the sky so it's bouncing off the canyon walls.

emalloy

If you aren't convinced to go to Antelope Canyon you can see what you are missing on my Flickr page in the 2008 set of pictures. These were taken at 3 o'clock in the afternoon in september. go to www.flickr.com/photos/emalloy2009/sets

mktatum

Northern AZ is an amazing place, I would suggest skipping any hotel and heli rides in GC to avoid the crowds, drop any Sky Walk and float plans, unless you have a lot of time during high season. Stay in either Flagstaff or Sedona it is cheaper and prettier and save the money for other things to do. Definately the Grand Canyon S. rim, Antelope Canyon tour. I would suggest a local touring company for the GC and Antelope.
The Sedona area has much more visuals to enjoy after viewing the amazing big hole in the ground
Heli rides out of Sedona are much better than the GC, more up close and personel. My fav tour company is http://silverspurtours.com, I think they offer all three tours in Mercedes touring vans and have great packages. Whatever you decide on, you will have a great time!!

Papsicle

Thanks so much for everyone's input and advice. Here are my new (entirely flexible and amendable) plans.

I'll be in Flagstaff on the 26th of September, a Saturday. The family will fly in that afternoon around 5pm. I don't think it gets dark in late September until around 9pm, and so we can go see the Sunset Crater volcano and Wupatki over the course of about 2.5 hours. Then, we can drive to Sedona and spend the night there on the 3rd level (actually the main level) of the BW Inn backing Chimney Rock

Then, at 7:45am the next morning (Sunday the 27th) we will take the VIP Grand Canyon Loop Tour with Silver Spur Tours:

http://silverspurtours.com/sedona-gr...loop-tour.html

This will also allow us to knock out the IMAX movie in Tuscayan.

I think we'll really take in all the highlights of the South Rim on this trip, and then be done at 6pm or so, so we'll grab a nice meal to go, and I'll drive the family three hours to Page. Yes, this does seem a bit insane to me in terms of maybe trying to do way too much. But maybe it'll work out.

We'll spend the night in Page and should get a solid 8 hours of sleep, and then I'll wake up and we'll head over for the full-day rowing trip with Colorado River Discovery at 8:30am:

http://www.raftthecanyon.com

We'll probably be so thrashed after a day in the sun on a big rowboat that we'll just head back to our hotel at 5pm when it's over, find a place to eat, and then fall asleep. By the way, do you recommend a hotel in Page, since we'll be there for two nights? I imagine it's a tiny town so my choices will be super limited.

The next morning (Tuesday), we will wake up leisurely, and then go check out Antelope Canyon with a Navajo guide, which should take a couple of hours (if we also see the dam and the lake in Page). Then, we still have the whole day to do whatever. So, I'm thinking that we'll drive three hours back to Sedona and take the Broken Arrow/Scenic Rim 3-hour Pink Jeep Tour in the early evening:

http://www.pinkjeep.com/jeep-tours/s...en-arrow.shtml

I'm open to any other ideas. Then, we'll drive towards Phoenix to spend Tuesday night there so we can fly out on Wednesday morning, September 30th.

Thanks again for your time and input. I just want this trip to pretty much be the best it can be.

hugglynn

Wow, the revised plan seems ambitious to me... Is it a must that you drive to Sedona to do the flight? The website says they pickup guests from Flagstaff? I am not familiar with the heli flights b/c we do most of our touring in the area by foot, it seems like a waste to drive the trip down to Sedona from Flagstaff only to catch a flight that goes back to Flagstaff? Besides, the drive to Sedona from Flagstaff is gorgeous, not to be done at night.
I would spend the first night in Flagstaff, catch the heli, do your other plans at the GC and Antelope Canyon (which is a great tour), then if you return to Flagstaff and have time, venture down to Sedona.
Sedona is heaven on earth to me, I hate to recommend a rush trip there when there is so much beauty to enjoy and absorb. We have spent a week there three times now and I could always go back and find more to do and see.

hugglynn

Just a second thought, Sky Harbor Airport is an easy and very doable drive from Sedona, about 2 hours. Rather than packing twice (from Sedona to PHX and the PHX to to the airport), if you are able to fit in Sedona, I wouldn't drive to PHX the night before you depart, I would head out to the airport in the morning from Sedona IF your flight isn't too too early in the a.m.

Bill_H

I think it's a big mistake to do this Grand Canyon tour from Sedona instead of simply staying overnight at the GC, where you can easily do everything that's listed on the 'tour' from your rental car for a fraction of the cost. The cost is far too high, and you will miss out on the two best times to actually view the canyon, sunrise and sunset. Two nights in Page and zero nights in the GC doesn't make much sense to me.

As for Page hotels, we like the Marriott and there are several others that are good value (Super 8, Holiday Inn Express, three Best Westerns, etc).

As for the rowing trip, it's not too strenuous because of the strong currents beneath the dam. Often you just steer with the oars and let the current do the work. We've done the entire 225 mile trip a couple of times in small non-motorized rafts and averaged 25 miles most days with about 5 hours on the water. I think the run below the dam is only 15 miles, so probably about 3 hours of actual paddling.

Papsicle

Hi hugglynn,
Just to be clear, it's not a flight - it's an all-day bus tour. They can definitely pick me up and drop me off in Flagstaff - that's a good idea. Then I can save my exploration of Sedona for Tuesday (and do the Pink Jeep tour, and drive through Oak Creek Canyon, and maybe do something else). And spend the night there in Sedona Tuesday night and just drive to the PHX airport the next morning for the flight. Thanks! That'll allow for more time in Sedona.....

hugglynn

That sounds more like a plan. No sense doubling back to Sedona--and it will save you valuable time you will need! Not sure where your Jeep Tour will take you...as I said, we do Sedona on foot, but if you're driving, you can easily tour some of the more notable formations--Cathedral Rock, Bell Rock, Courthouse Butte by driving to them. There are also hikes in each place that are optional. Also, the Airport Road is worth a drive up for the Vista as is the short (but a little intense) climb on the trail that is nearby there if you go all the way to the top Vista. A great casual lunch or breakfast can be had at Wildflower Bread Company (I call this place Panera on steroids) and Picasso Pizza has fantastic pizzas and salads.

Marginal

The best times at the Grand Canyon are at sunrise and sunset.

It is worth it to stay in the park, so you can easily walk to view the rim.

There is no need to sit in a bus for a tour. You can easily drive yourself and have all the time you want to explore.

MFNYC

If you are still looking for a reasonable Sedona hotel, check out the Sky Ranch Lodge - great value, with great views.

reginag

The place is fully constructed and developed, a nice place to visit!
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http://www.explorenevadatours.com/grandcanyon.php

tjs123

I'm planning a similar trip for first 10 days of September. Can anyone speak to the weather... I dont do very well with the heat and I'm scared that it will be too hot to spend time outside?

Thanks for your comments

Bill_H

I'm planning a similar trip for first 10 days of September. Can anyone speak to the weather

Usually over 100F in Phoenix in early Sept, maybe low 90's at Sedona, 80's at the south rim because of the higher elevations. These are afternoon highs, temps are very pleasant earlier in the day at the south rim.

Papsicle

Thanks, everyone - for the feedback I don't mind going back to the drawing board as I do want this to be the best it can be.

I've decided we *should* just drive the route that the Grand Canyon tour bus would take anyway - we can do it at our own pace, and bring our own snacks, and it'll be better.

Saturday evening, September 26th, we will spend the night in Flagstaff. Then, Sunday the 27th we will get up early and just drive from Flagstaff to Tusayan to see the IMAX movie, to the Grand Canyon Village and the Rim Trail, then driving to Mather Point, Grand View Point, Desert Point, the Watch Tower, Cameron Trading Post, and really whatever else we want to see, including the Grand Canyon at sunset. Do you have a general idea as to how long leisurely exploring these stops and sites will take? 8 hours? 10 hours? I'm just curious. We will then spend the night at Bright Angel.

Monday morning, we will see the Grand Canyon at sunrise, and drive bright and early we will drive three hours to Page (it'll be a solid three hour drive, right?). In Page, we'll go on the half-day flatwater trip with Colorado River Discovery (www.raftthecanyon.com) (12:30pm to 6:30pm). That should then give us a couple hours of light to see Antelope Canyon at Sunset. We'll spend the night in Page.

Tuesday morning, we'll drive three hours to Flagstaff, and see Sunset Crater volcano and Wupatki. Then we'll catch the Broken Arrow/Scenic Rim 3-hour Pink Jeep Tour in the early afternoon after lunch (http://www.pinkjeep.com/jeep-tours/s...en-arrow.shtml).

We can then spend the evening and night tooling around and exploring Sedona. I know it's not a ton of time, but it is what we can do. We may spend the night at Sky Ranch Lodge, as recommended.

We'll wake up early and drive to Sky Harbor in Phoenix the next morning to fly out at 10am From Sedona, we'll probably need to leave at 6am to allow 2.5 hours to get to the airport, return the rental car, check bags, get through security, and fly out. Does leaving Sedona to drive to Phoenix four hours before a PHX flight make sense?

Thanks again for your time and input. I just want this trip to pretty much be the best it can be.

Bill_H

Basically a fine plan ... two comments or suggestions:

You write That should then give us a couple hours of light to see Antelope Canyon at Sunset ... this won't work. Antelope Canyon is a slot canyon, a deep narrow slit about 50 ft deep with narrow dark walls (upper) and the best time to see the upper canyon is between 10 AM and 2 PM, when for a brief time the sun's rays actually reach the canyon floor. Lower Antelope is not as deep, the sandstone isn't as dark and is wider so there's a bit more light but even here you won't see much after about 4 PM. So try to visit Antelope mid-day, if possible.

Does leaving Sedona to drive to Phoenix four hours before a PHX flight make sense?

Four hours is barely adequate if traffic is light, two hours for the drive and two hours for check-in etc, but unfortunately you are driving this at peak rush hour mid-week and traffic will likely be backed up from about Anthem (well north of Phoenix) heading into downtown and all the way to the airport. I would personally add another 30-60 minutes, just in case. It helps you'll be able to use the car pool lanes once in Phoenix.

Here's a link to the up-dated traffic flow in Phoenix, you might check it around 8 AM Phoenix time a couple of days just to see what the normal delays are. It will be worse in Sept once all the schools open. You will be driving in on I-17 (top-center) and the airport is near where it says "Tempe" (center-right) ... http://www.azcentral.com/news/traffic/ Like I said, you can do this (stay in Sedona and catch a 10 AM flight from Sky Harbor) if things go smoothly, but sometimes the traffic causes lengthy delays.

nimblfingrs

Hi, We'll probably be travelling south from Utah, to GCNP. I'm considering seeing the North Rim. Has anyone experience at the north rim? Can you make a comparison of the views? We'll be going in May, 2010. THX