San Francisco VS. Dallas
Dec 23rd, 2005, 04:19 AM
#41
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Good Luck - two totally different areas.
Visit a LONG week with your family. Make sure you check out all the suburbs and the traffic.
One last point: located in SF, you are near other points of interest and beautiful places that are only a drive away.
In Dallas, not much going on - deep south is not as unprejudiced; you could always drive to Arkansas, but why? You are close to Shreveport, LA, they have some casinos...then where do you go?
But the one thing which is hard to put a price on is family. If you get along with your husbands family, may be worth it!
Visit a LONG week with your family. Make sure you check out all the suburbs and the traffic.
One last point: located in SF, you are near other points of interest and beautiful places that are only a drive away.
In Dallas, not much going on - deep south is not as unprejudiced; you could always drive to Arkansas, but why? You are close to Shreveport, LA, they have some casinos...then where do you go?
But the one thing which is hard to put a price on is family. If you get along with your husbands family, may be worth it!
Dec 23rd, 2005, 05:39 AM
#42
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Cwojo99, I think there are many wonderful places that are accessible from Dallas.
And yes, Arkansas is very worth a drive... in fact, its mountains are a faster drive from Dallas than California's mountains are from San Francisco.
But there's more to explore. Drive north, drive east, explore the real United States... I've driven to Washington DC, I plan to drive to Florida... the Gulf Coast is right there at hand...
And yes, Arkansas is very worth a drive... in fact, its mountains are a faster drive from Dallas than California's mountains are from San Francisco.
But there's more to explore. Drive north, drive east, explore the real United States... I've driven to Washington DC, I plan to drive to Florida... the Gulf Coast is right there at hand...
Dec 23rd, 2005, 05:44 AM
#43
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xbt - How would you respond to HonestAbe's link that shows people in San Fran have far better credit scores, and better personal savings levels, than Dallas?
This doesn't sound to me like Dallas residents have more wealth, simply that they have more debt!
This doesn't sound to me like Dallas residents have more wealth, simply that they have more debt!
Dec 23rd, 2005, 05:46 AM
#44
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xbt-
I suppose it's futile for me to ask, but do tell what is the "real United States?"
I guess my previous visits to San Fran and places like NYC don't represent what the U.S. really is about.
For the benefit of my future travels, and other fodorites as well, will you please give me a list of destinations comprising the "real" u.s.?
And is San Fran not real because it does not line up with your politics?
I suppose it's futile for me to ask, but do tell what is the "real United States?"
I guess my previous visits to San Fran and places like NYC don't represent what the U.S. really is about.
For the benefit of my future travels, and other fodorites as well, will you please give me a list of destinations comprising the "real" u.s.?
And is San Fran not real because it does not line up with your politics?
Dec 23rd, 2005, 05:53 AM
#45
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HonestAbe's numbers are caused by Dallas having a higher rate of in migration than San Francisco has.
And yes, the Dallas suburbs are very wealthy.The ACS Survey of the US Census Bureau lists median household income by county:
Collin County, TX, 71,458
Contra Costa County, CA, 69,835
San Mateo County, 69,215
Denton County TX, 62,013
Alameda County CA, 61,731
The Census Bureau link is http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Produc...03/R07T050.htm
Denton County TX,
And yes, the Dallas suburbs are very wealthy.The ACS Survey of the US Census Bureau lists median household income by county:
Collin County, TX, 71,458
Contra Costa County, CA, 69,835
San Mateo County, 69,215
Denton County TX, 62,013
Alameda County CA, 61,731
The Census Bureau link is http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Produc...03/R07T050.htm
Denton County TX,
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:00 AM
#46
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xbt,
you aren't responding to the issue at hand.
no one is arguing that average income in dallas is low. Honestabe's link establishes that dallas residents are over extended in terms of credit.
your figures have nothing to do with that.
you aren't responding to the issue at hand.
no one is arguing that average income in dallas is low. Honestabe's link establishes that dallas residents are over extended in terms of credit.
your figures have nothing to do with that.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:01 AM
#47
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I should mention that Santa Clara county (San Jose) is more wealthy, at 76,544. But, Texas does not have a state income tax, which would drop the effective Santa Clara income below Collin County Texas.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:11 AM
#49
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I didn't realize the U.S. was one thing. Isn't part of the beauty of the U.S. is the diversity of the land and its people?
I think NYC and SF represent the U.S. as much as Nebraska and Iowa do.
I'd hate to hear your thoughts on my town of New Orleans.
I think NYC and SF represent the U.S. as much as Nebraska and Iowa do.
I'd hate to hear your thoughts on my town of New Orleans.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:13 AM
#50
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Dallas people overextended in terms of credit?
As I said, that stat is caused by the high rate of migration to Dallas, in comparison to migration to San Francisco.
People who are moving from one city to another are more likely to have financial difficulties, and are more likely to declare bankruptcy.
As I said, that stat is caused by the high rate of migration to Dallas, in comparison to migration to San Francisco.
People who are moving from one city to another are more likely to have financial difficulties, and are more likely to declare bankruptcy.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:16 AM
#52
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My previous facts speak for themselves. People in Dallas live above their means. Even moreso than "more expensive" places like San Fran.
A financial planner would logically think that if a population has a high income, combined with low or no taxes, then there would be incredible disposable income. You should be able to live the life and do the things you want without going into debt or having high credit card balances.
That is why there is not any other explanation for the Dallas phenomenon, of low credit scores and very low nesteggs, as being something where they feel the need to "keep up with the Joneses".
If the average Dallas citizen (average defined by the numbers I have access to) came to me, I would be concerned for them. They might have the big house, nice car, etc., but they have very little financial security.
A financial planner would logically think that if a population has a high income, combined with low or no taxes, then there would be incredible disposable income. You should be able to live the life and do the things you want without going into debt or having high credit card balances.
That is why there is not any other explanation for the Dallas phenomenon, of low credit scores and very low nesteggs, as being something where they feel the need to "keep up with the Joneses".
If the average Dallas citizen (average defined by the numbers I have access to) came to me, I would be concerned for them. They might have the big house, nice car, etc., but they have very little financial security.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:19 AM
#53
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I grew up in Michigan, live now near DC (No. Virginia), have relatives (Mom, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins) in Texas and have vacationed in San Francisco at least once / year for the last 3 years, every place has it's rewards and things to experience. I have worked in Arkansas, visited La., and many other places.
I vote for staying in California if you can afford it!
Although, must say, I love living in No. Va, so maybe you should consider that! Cost of living is totally way too high.
8-)
I vote for staying in California if you can afford it!
Although, must say, I love living in No. Va, so maybe you should consider that! Cost of living is totally way too high.
8-)
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:20 AM
#54
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It seems like one would be less able to move to a different state if one had major financial difficulties leading to bankruptcy.
p.s.
another article about dallas citizens being house rich and cash poor:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...2.asp?GT1=6358
p.s.
another article about dallas citizens being house rich and cash poor:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...2.asp?GT1=6358
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:25 AM
#55
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i think new orleans has something in common with san francisco and new york- its uniqueness. You can't buy that, or replicate it.
no offense, but if you took a poll of a group of travelers, would they put Dallas in even the Top 10 of places to visit in the U.S.? I don't think so.
New Orleans (in a couple years after the city has time to rebound from its devastation), San Francisco, and NYC will always be in that list. Why- not because of income or the affordability of houses or any other factors. They will always be desirable places to visit because they have something different to offer that other cities don't.
no offense, but if you took a poll of a group of travelers, would they put Dallas in even the Top 10 of places to visit in the U.S.? I don't think so.
New Orleans (in a couple years after the city has time to rebound from its devastation), San Francisco, and NYC will always be in that list. Why- not because of income or the affordability of houses or any other factors. They will always be desirable places to visit because they have something different to offer that other cities don't.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:35 AM
#56
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mah1980, I'll agree that SF and New Orleans are visitor destinations. The issue is... who wants to LIVE there?
HonestAbe, your bankruptcy numbers are contaminated by the sheer number of people moving to Dallas. Such a move causes stress, financial and personal, and a stressed family is more likely to declare bankruptcy.
If you could somehow remove the recent immigrants from your sample, you'd have a realistic picture.
HonestAbe, your bankruptcy numbers are contaminated by the sheer number of people moving to Dallas. Such a move causes stress, financial and personal, and a stressed family is more likely to declare bankruptcy.
If you could somehow remove the recent immigrants from your sample, you'd have a realistic picture.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:38 AM
#57
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I'm with you, MAH. NYC, SF, New Orleans. Then places like DC, Seattle, Chicago, LA, and maybe Boston. Only after that would you start to consider places like Dallas as an attractive place to visit.
But this post is asking about where to live, and using that criteria, Dallas has jobs and cheap houses. IF that is all you're looking for, I guess it makes the list.
But this post is asking about where to live, and using that criteria, Dallas has jobs and cheap houses. IF that is all you're looking for, I guess it makes the list.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:43 AM
#58
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I want to live in New Orleans, and I do live here.
I would love to live in San Fran.
And if cheap housing was my main criteria, I suppose Dallas would be fine.
But the OP is coming from SF, where presumably she likes living there for the vibrancy it offers that Dallas could not.
I would love to live in San Fran.
And if cheap housing was my main criteria, I suppose Dallas would be fine.
But the OP is coming from SF, where presumably she likes living there for the vibrancy it offers that Dallas could not.
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:44 AM
#59
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My numbers are not bankruptcy numbers. They are the average credit score across the entire population. It is a profile of the people in the city. It takes into account the middle-income families doing well, in addition to the poor who are struggling, just like every other city.
The other cities on that list also have immigration putting a huge strain on their systems. Minneapolis has a massive wave of Hmong, and DC has a huge inflow of middle easterners. But each of those cities still maintains very high credit standards.
Now if you are arguing that the average Dallas credit score is the lowest nation because of a huge influx of the poor and irresponsible people who don't pay their bills, you might have a case. But I would then have to beg the question, is that really the type of place where you want to live?
The other cities on that list also have immigration putting a huge strain on their systems. Minneapolis has a massive wave of Hmong, and DC has a huge inflow of middle easterners. But each of those cities still maintains very high credit standards.
Now if you are arguing that the average Dallas credit score is the lowest nation because of a huge influx of the poor and irresponsible people who don't pay their bills, you might have a case. But I would then have to beg the question, is that really the type of place where you want to live?
Dec 23rd, 2005, 06:44 AM
#60
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Hazelmn, the numbers speak for themselves... Dallas is more succesful at attracting and retaining migrants.
Why is this? Are there no jobs anywhere else? Is it the only city where you can buy a house?
No, I didn't move to Dallas because of cheap housing.... there are a lot of cheaper towns out there. I did it because I didn't like San Francisco and I found that Dallas could replace the SF attractions I did like.
Why is this? Are there no jobs anywhere else? Is it the only city where you can buy a house?
No, I didn't move to Dallas because of cheap housing.... there are a lot of cheaper towns out there. I did it because I didn't like San Francisco and I found that Dallas could replace the SF attractions I did like.
