Retiring in Hawaii
Oct 29th, 2004, 11:13 AM
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Retiring in Hawaii
I know, I know, this is a travel site. But how many of you who love Hawaii have dreamed of living there? Every time we return from a trip, we have this longing to go back that never goes away. Earning a living there seems impossible, but what about retirement? I know it's expensive, but we are fortunate enough to own California real estate; prices there seem comparable to So. Calif. Some questions:
Do you really get "island fever"?
Do you get used to the incredible beauty after awhile? We live in the Santa Monica mountains, and I never get tired of our pretty little hills.
What are Lease Hold and Fee Simple?
How cramped would a 1 bedroom condo feel after ten years? (ha ha)
What island and which area? We know and love them all. I don't think we could handle Honolulu, though, too much traffic. Being from So Cal, we are sick of it! But we love Oahu.
Are transplanted haoles welcomed? A somewhat dumb question, I know, you get back what you give. Hawaii must be loaded with transplants, as is So Cal. I think we are nice to everyone here, in general. There is this feeling of not being welcomed in the "locals" areas of the islands, probably holds as much water as the idea that everyone is Los Angeles is a rude actor wannabe.
Do you get tired of snorkeling every day?
Is the fishing good? Looks like it is.
Auntiemaria, this sounds like such a rude question, but how are you so lucky as to be able to live on Kauai?
Please excuse this bizarre post, I am dreaming...
Do you really get "island fever"?
Do you get used to the incredible beauty after awhile? We live in the Santa Monica mountains, and I never get tired of our pretty little hills.
What are Lease Hold and Fee Simple?
How cramped would a 1 bedroom condo feel after ten years? (ha ha)
What island and which area? We know and love them all. I don't think we could handle Honolulu, though, too much traffic. Being from So Cal, we are sick of it! But we love Oahu.
Are transplanted haoles welcomed? A somewhat dumb question, I know, you get back what you give. Hawaii must be loaded with transplants, as is So Cal. I think we are nice to everyone here, in general. There is this feeling of not being welcomed in the "locals" areas of the islands, probably holds as much water as the idea that everyone is Los Angeles is a rude actor wannabe.
Do you get tired of snorkeling every day?
Is the fishing good? Looks like it is.
Auntiemaria, this sounds like such a rude question, but how are you so lucky as to be able to live on Kauai?
Please excuse this bizarre post, I am dreaming...
Oct 29th, 2004, 11:29 AM
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I lived on Windward Oahu for almost three years and am willing to take a stab at "answering" a couple of the questions.
Island fever..yes, it is nice to be able to cross the state line at some point or another and I found one of the best cures for that was to do so during the Winter...traveling to somewhere it is really COLD. It doesn;t take long for you to wish you were back in that "monotonous" 80 degrees or so weather every day.
Fee simple vs. lease hold. Generally, a fee simple property is one that you own outright vs. a house or property built on a lease hold...you may own the building but the ground underneath is leased, often for a 99-year period. When I was residing in the state the Bishop Estate continued to control a large portion of the property in one way or another.
Incredible beauty...for some it isn't any more beutiful, and perhaps not AS beautiful to many other locations in the US and the world. It is certainly easy to become "accustomed" to the surroundings. I assume you are speaking of the scenery in general. Anyone who tries to tell you that portions of Honolulu are not somewhat rundown and less than National Geographic spectacular is probably the same person who tries to convince you that every inch of San Francisco is "charming."
You could easily "handle" Honolulu and the traffic if you WANTED to. The notion that Oahu isn't as beautiful as some of the other islands and doesn't have beeautiful beaches is a misconception in my opinion. At least on Oahu there is something to do other than spend time in yet ANOTHER "gallery" filled with dolphin paintings and walk across yet another golf course.
In my experience there remains a certain amount of "xenophobia" towards haoles, particularly when they attempt to find employment..depends on the field of work, however.
Not everybody snorkles every day just as not everyone in California picks oranges every day.
Living on any of the islands has little to do with luck and more to do with determination. The grass always seems to be greener elsewhere doesn't it?
I suggest if you are serious about moving to the islands you spend several weeks there first..and i do not mean as a tourist. You may find Califronia and the mainland advantages to outweight what I think may be your somewhat over-idyllic view of "paradise."
Island fever..yes, it is nice to be able to cross the state line at some point or another and I found one of the best cures for that was to do so during the Winter...traveling to somewhere it is really COLD. It doesn;t take long for you to wish you were back in that "monotonous" 80 degrees or so weather every day.
Fee simple vs. lease hold. Generally, a fee simple property is one that you own outright vs. a house or property built on a lease hold...you may own the building but the ground underneath is leased, often for a 99-year period. When I was residing in the state the Bishop Estate continued to control a large portion of the property in one way or another.
Incredible beauty...for some it isn't any more beutiful, and perhaps not AS beautiful to many other locations in the US and the world. It is certainly easy to become "accustomed" to the surroundings. I assume you are speaking of the scenery in general. Anyone who tries to tell you that portions of Honolulu are not somewhat rundown and less than National Geographic spectacular is probably the same person who tries to convince you that every inch of San Francisco is "charming."
You could easily "handle" Honolulu and the traffic if you WANTED to. The notion that Oahu isn't as beautiful as some of the other islands and doesn't have beeautiful beaches is a misconception in my opinion. At least on Oahu there is something to do other than spend time in yet ANOTHER "gallery" filled with dolphin paintings and walk across yet another golf course.
In my experience there remains a certain amount of "xenophobia" towards haoles, particularly when they attempt to find employment..depends on the field of work, however.
Not everybody snorkles every day just as not everyone in California picks oranges every day.
Living on any of the islands has little to do with luck and more to do with determination. The grass always seems to be greener elsewhere doesn't it?
I suggest if you are serious about moving to the islands you spend several weeks there first..and i do not mean as a tourist. You may find Califronia and the mainland advantages to outweight what I think may be your somewhat over-idyllic view of "paradise."
Oct 29th, 2004, 11:34 AM
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Leasehold and Fee Simple refer to the manner in which a person (or persons) holds title to a piece of real estate, whether it is a condo, townhome, or SFR. It is how the law interprets ownership. To get very specific, it is best to consult a R/E person. I cannot advise you over the internet. This is the beginning of the conversation about R/E that becomes endless.
I will, however, answer the question posed.
Leasehold Estate, most commonly is for an agreed upon period of time. A five-year lease, for example. A tenant that has a lease for a set period of time. The rent must remain the same until the lease expires.
Fee Simple is the way to go for your perceived intention. To be clear, this is why I suggest consulting with another person employed in the field.
When the real estate is in a condominium project, the unit owner is the exclusive owner only of the air space within his or her portion of the building (the unit) and is an owner in common with respect to the land and other common portions of the property.
The dream is the beginning of your personal reality. Make it real.
I will, however, answer the question posed.
Leasehold Estate, most commonly is for an agreed upon period of time. A five-year lease, for example. A tenant that has a lease for a set period of time. The rent must remain the same until the lease expires.
Fee Simple is the way to go for your perceived intention. To be clear, this is why I suggest consulting with another person employed in the field.
When the real estate is in a condominium project, the unit owner is the exclusive owner only of the air space within his or her portion of the building (the unit) and is an owner in common with respect to the land and other common portions of the property.
The dream is the beginning of your personal reality. Make it real.
Oct 29th, 2004, 11:55 AM
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Having lived here for 46 years (17 on Kauai, the rest on Oahu), I'll take a stab at your questions.
Do you really get "island fever"?: At times, but not very often. A yearly trip to the mainland or a quick hop to a neighbor island is always there for you.
Do you get used to the incredible beauty after awhile?: Never.
What are Lease Hold and Fee Simple?: Leasehold means you don't ever own your property. At the end of the lease, you need to sign another one or move out. During the lease however, you can take the interest deduction on your mortgage. Fee means you own your property. It's a simplified explanation. I'd consult a broker. Go for fee though!
How cramped would a 1 bedroom condo feel after ten years?: Hard to answer this one. Depends on your needs I guess.
What island and which area?: Well, if you are coming for retirement, you won't be driving during rush hour, so traffic really won't be an issue, even on Oahu.
Are transplanted haoles welcomed?: Yes. Like anywhere else, there are some issues, but in general, Hawaii is more tolerant re. the race issue than any place in the country, even California IMO
Do you get tired of snorkeling every day?: No.
Is the fishing good?: Better on neighbor islands, but Oahu still has some good spots.
It's a nice dream though, isn't it?
Do you really get "island fever"?: At times, but not very often. A yearly trip to the mainland or a quick hop to a neighbor island is always there for you.
Do you get used to the incredible beauty after awhile?: Never.
What are Lease Hold and Fee Simple?: Leasehold means you don't ever own your property. At the end of the lease, you need to sign another one or move out. During the lease however, you can take the interest deduction on your mortgage. Fee means you own your property. It's a simplified explanation. I'd consult a broker. Go for fee though!
How cramped would a 1 bedroom condo feel after ten years?: Hard to answer this one. Depends on your needs I guess.
What island and which area?: Well, if you are coming for retirement, you won't be driving during rush hour, so traffic really won't be an issue, even on Oahu.
Are transplanted haoles welcomed?: Yes. Like anywhere else, there are some issues, but in general, Hawaii is more tolerant re. the race issue than any place in the country, even California IMO
Do you get tired of snorkeling every day?: No.
Is the fishing good?: Better on neighbor islands, but Oahu still has some good spots.
It's a nice dream though, isn't it?
Oct 29th, 2004, 12:18 PM
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Just a quick note re fee vs. leasehold.
If you purchase a leasehold condo, that doesn't mean that the fee will never become available. In some instances, the fee becomes available for purchase. Some condominiums are part fee, part leasehold.
If you purchase a leasehold condo, that doesn't mean that the fee will never become available. In some instances, the fee becomes available for purchase. Some condominiums are part fee, part leasehold.
Oct 29th, 2004, 01:20 PM
#7
If I were you, I'd rent out my house in CA, come here for a year and then decide. I have several friends who've moved here and are very, very happy. I've had others who left.
Another option is to buy a second home here and just come and go. You can rent it out in betweeen your visits.
Some things are cheaper in Hawaii. Utility bills, clothing, property taxes. Gas is about the same as in many CA areas, but most people drive a LOT less in Hawaii.
As far as getting used to the beauty of Hawaii..Sure you forget to look sometimes, but a great rainbow brings it back into focus.
A small correction to one comment...you can write off your mortgage interest on fee or lease properties. You can depreciate your entire property (not just the building) if you are an investor holding leased property.
A little history on The leasehold system. It is quite common in Hawaii condominiums. Back in the 60's lots of landowners were approached by developers who set up the long leases (usually with predetermined increases, based on appraised value, built in), built and sold the units without the landowners having to put up any money.
The idea was that the landowner would get monthly income now and then after the lease ran out, in 55 years or so, they would get to take take back their land and all the improvements.
Unfortunately, land values soared and suddenly the monthly rent was just peanuts to the landowner. They had to stick by the contract though, until renegotiation.
As the land was now worth a fortune, the home owners were suddenly hit with huge increases in their monthly rent.
When the first round of increases hit, the state reacted by passing laws allowing the state to condemn the land under single family homes and sell it to the homeownners if they were unable to work out reasonable sale prices.
Becasue most of these properties were built on land owned by big trusts, many of the houses were converted voluntarily, and the former landowners invested elsewhere.
It was a little different with highrise condominiums, as more of them were one shot projects and are on land owned by single families. Many of them do not want to sell("It's my ancestor's land"), and are furious that the contracts are being broken - especially since the bulk of their benefits come at the end of the leases.
In addition, condemnation is supposed to be an involuntary taking for the public good. The idea that home ownership is a public 'good' doesn't hold as well when it many condo units are owned by investors who simply buy the land at the arbitrated price, then sell at a profit.
A law allowing the state to condemn land under condos passed a few years ago, but is still in litigation.
Many landowners have seen the writing on the wall and have offered the fee to their leasees. You will find buildings where some units are fee and some lease. You can sometimes still purchase the fee, other times it is not available. If the fixed lease period has only a short time left, you may not be able to get a mortgage on the property, or may only be able to get it for a short period (as opposed to 30 years)
The bottom line is that if you buy leasehold, know what the terms of the lease are now, and how they can change in the future. Do not count on phrases like, "they are negotiating, and it should be available very soon".
oops, sorry. That was a very long explanation. It is a hot subject in Hawaii though.
Good luck in your decision.
Another option is to buy a second home here and just come and go. You can rent it out in betweeen your visits.
Some things are cheaper in Hawaii. Utility bills, clothing, property taxes. Gas is about the same as in many CA areas, but most people drive a LOT less in Hawaii.
As far as getting used to the beauty of Hawaii..Sure you forget to look sometimes, but a great rainbow brings it back into focus.
A small correction to one comment...you can write off your mortgage interest on fee or lease properties. You can depreciate your entire property (not just the building) if you are an investor holding leased property.
A little history on The leasehold system. It is quite common in Hawaii condominiums. Back in the 60's lots of landowners were approached by developers who set up the long leases (usually with predetermined increases, based on appraised value, built in), built and sold the units without the landowners having to put up any money.
The idea was that the landowner would get monthly income now and then after the lease ran out, in 55 years or so, they would get to take take back their land and all the improvements.
Unfortunately, land values soared and suddenly the monthly rent was just peanuts to the landowner. They had to stick by the contract though, until renegotiation.
As the land was now worth a fortune, the home owners were suddenly hit with huge increases in their monthly rent.
When the first round of increases hit, the state reacted by passing laws allowing the state to condemn the land under single family homes and sell it to the homeownners if they were unable to work out reasonable sale prices.
Becasue most of these properties were built on land owned by big trusts, many of the houses were converted voluntarily, and the former landowners invested elsewhere.
It was a little different with highrise condominiums, as more of them were one shot projects and are on land owned by single families. Many of them do not want to sell("It's my ancestor's land"), and are furious that the contracts are being broken - especially since the bulk of their benefits come at the end of the leases.
In addition, condemnation is supposed to be an involuntary taking for the public good. The idea that home ownership is a public 'good' doesn't hold as well when it many condo units are owned by investors who simply buy the land at the arbitrated price, then sell at a profit.
A law allowing the state to condemn land under condos passed a few years ago, but is still in litigation.
Many landowners have seen the writing on the wall and have offered the fee to their leasees. You will find buildings where some units are fee and some lease. You can sometimes still purchase the fee, other times it is not available. If the fixed lease period has only a short time left, you may not be able to get a mortgage on the property, or may only be able to get it for a short period (as opposed to 30 years)
The bottom line is that if you buy leasehold, know what the terms of the lease are now, and how they can change in the future. Do not count on phrases like, "they are negotiating, and it should be available very soon".
oops, sorry. That was a very long explanation. It is a hot subject in Hawaii though.
Good luck in your decision.
Oct 29th, 2004, 01:24 PM
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lcuy and Burta can better answer relocation questions, but here's my take on it.
I think you DO start to take some of the beauty for granted. I used to race home from work to catch the sunset from my condo, since I have a view of the west side of the island now. Here I am 2 years later, and I don't race home unless I think the sunset will be biblically spectacular (as opposed to just fabulous).
You already have the answer to LH & FS....like chepar says, the fee does sometimes come available. My condo building is part fee, part leasehold.
Cramped--depends on you and what you do with the space. I lived in a studio for 10 years and felt OK. However, living in a larger space is always better! I'm going to sell my studio to a couple who rented it for 3 months. They moved from PA and are absolutely loving it, because they don't want any more cold winters and don't want a yard to upkeep. They keep busy in their own ways, so the studio is simply a place to hang their hat.
I live on Oahu and you dont necessarily have to live in Honolulu. You could opt to live in a less expensive rural area so that you can have the best of both worlds--the quietness of the rural areas, with the excitement of the city just 30-60 minutes away. Actually, there are some very nice quiet areas just 10 minutes from the city, such as in the valleys in Honolulu (Nuuanu, Kalihi, Palolo, Manoa).
I think you DO start to take some of the beauty for granted. I used to race home from work to catch the sunset from my condo, since I have a view of the west side of the island now. Here I am 2 years later, and I don't race home unless I think the sunset will be biblically spectacular (as opposed to just fabulous).
You already have the answer to LH & FS....like chepar says, the fee does sometimes come available. My condo building is part fee, part leasehold.
Cramped--depends on you and what you do with the space. I lived in a studio for 10 years and felt OK. However, living in a larger space is always better! I'm going to sell my studio to a couple who rented it for 3 months. They moved from PA and are absolutely loving it, because they don't want any more cold winters and don't want a yard to upkeep. They keep busy in their own ways, so the studio is simply a place to hang their hat.
I live on Oahu and you dont necessarily have to live in Honolulu. You could opt to live in a less expensive rural area so that you can have the best of both worlds--the quietness of the rural areas, with the excitement of the city just 30-60 minutes away. Actually, there are some very nice quiet areas just 10 minutes from the city, such as in the valleys in Honolulu (Nuuanu, Kalihi, Palolo, Manoa).
Oct 29th, 2004, 03:32 PM
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My in-laws retired and moved to Hawaii. They lived in Oahu and the Big Island. My brother-in-law also lived there for fifteen years. They moved back to CA about three years ago and miss the island life a lot but just felt a little isolated from the rest of us.
One thing they didn't care for was the school system, with three small children, but you won't have to worry about that.
Sister-in-law lived in Maui for about five years and moved back to LA recently. I don't think they ever got tired of the beauty of the islands or ever took it for granted. ***kim***
One thing they didn't care for was the school system, with three small children, but you won't have to worry about that.
Sister-in-law lived in Maui for about five years and moved back to LA recently. I don't think they ever got tired of the beauty of the islands or ever took it for granted. ***kim***
Oct 29th, 2004, 05:16 PM
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We've heard more than one person compare living in Hawaii with eating steak every single day. It might sound good, and even be good for a while, but eventually you'll give ANYTHING to eat something else. You'll get tired of the same exact weather every day, no seasons, driving the same highway over and over and over etc.
But as others have pointed out, some people do move there and are happy forever. If you're really a homebody and don't get out much, you can do that just as easily in Hawaii as anywhere else. But if you're a weekend warrior and go stir crazy if you can't get away every few weeks, chances are you won't last long over there.
Our eventual retirement goal is to have a house or condo in Hawaii as well as something on the mainland, maybe an A-frame in Tahoe or a house back east. Something with completely different, if not opposite climates. This arrangement seems to work best for most of our friends.
But as others have pointed out, some people do move there and are happy forever. If you're really a homebody and don't get out much, you can do that just as easily in Hawaii as anywhere else. But if you're a weekend warrior and go stir crazy if you can't get away every few weeks, chances are you won't last long over there.
Our eventual retirement goal is to have a house or condo in Hawaii as well as something on the mainland, maybe an A-frame in Tahoe or a house back east. Something with completely different, if not opposite climates. This arrangement seems to work best for most of our friends.
Oct 30th, 2004, 05:38 AM
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We have often talked about this as well. When we were in Hawaii last spring we saw this book:
So You Want to Live in Hawaii
by Toni Polancy, G. Brad Lewis, Matt Thayer
which is filled with great information about this topic. I found it at our local library but it is also available on Amazon. I thought it was very helpful.
So You Want to Live in Hawaii
by Toni Polancy, G. Brad Lewis, Matt Thayer
which is filled with great information about this topic. I found it at our local library but it is also available on Amazon. I thought it was very helpful.
Oct 30th, 2004, 10:58 AM
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v'lover-You in Nor Cal anywhere?
We saw that book at the Border's on Kauai 2 yrs ago and thumbed thru it. Good book to revu before even thinking about making a move.
vivi-We heard while Wilcox offers some good services, for anything serious you have to hop over to Oahu. And if you take a friend or relative over you then have to arrange for air fare, place to stay, etc.
A definite consideration before moving.
We saw that book at the Border's on Kauai 2 yrs ago and thumbed thru it. Good book to revu before even thinking about making a move.
vivi-We heard while Wilcox offers some good services, for anything serious you have to hop over to Oahu. And if you take a friend or relative over you then have to arrange for air fare, place to stay, etc.
A definite consideration before moving.
Oct 31st, 2004, 01:35 PM
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This is an interesting thread as after many trips to Hawaii, I considered the same thing, i.e. buying now for retirement within a decade (if I'm lucky). But to doing the math, It seems waaayyy cheaper to rent a place, even for 6 months every yr, than to buy one, especially if you're not absolutely certain you want to live there. Being fortunate enought to own (along with the bank!) my home in the equally outrageously priced Bay Area, I dislike the idea of paying off someone else's mortgage. But I also dislike the idea of buying a decent sized home for over half a million dollars. True, you don't own what you rent, but you can still have the experience of residing there.
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:38 PM
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I've lived in Hawaii all my life and love it! I look out at the mountains right outside my door and I have to sigh and thank God for such a beautiful sight. Coming down the H3 on a sunny day with the blue skies above and the blue, clear ocean below is heaven. But yes, you do pay for paradise. The cost of living is very high. A friend of our just bought a 2 bedroom condo for $475,000. That's more than we paid for our 4 bedroom house just 4 years ago. If you want to get away from the bustle and like the relaxing life, the neighbor islands are your best bet. Oahu is a little more "busy". We live on the windward side and like the "quiet" but the commute in traffic can be frustrating at times. If you willing to "pay" for a beautiful view, it's an option. There are people who don't treat "nonlocals" too well. Especially if they call our home a "hell hole". But overall, the attitude you portray is the attitude you will receive.
