TxTravelPro

We just went to the Texas Country Reporter festival in Waxahachie Texas. Great event. Huge, busy and crowded. Dogs are welcome.
Everyone loves my Aussie and she loves them right back!
On the way home we saw a car show. We stopped and walked around, with the dog. It happened to be a dog friendly show and there were quite a few dogs in the crowd.
I noticed that one of the participants had a large Doberman and Rottweiler. I decided to stay a good distance from them when a lady mentioned that the Rottweiler was pretty vicious.
So I skipped the row before and after... as I was rounding a corner a row away, the Rottweiler saw my dog and took off towards us snarling. There was a young girl hanging on to the dog, but she was not strong enough to control this huge dog.
My husband yelled at me and I saw the dog coming at us. My dog really didn't get that this dog wanted to kill her... poor thing... she loves everything. I did not want to run, but I was backing up and yelling for someone to get the dog under control.
If you can believe it, the dog was on a extendable leash... unreal.
It was like a cartoon. The dog was coming at us like a train and all of a sudden a man, the Dad I think, said something like "You need a little help?" to the little girl. He was SMILING! He grabbed the leash and the dog was halted about 12 feet from us.
He just chuckled and walked back.
I was pretty shaken and my husband was furious.
Why the heck would someone bring vicious dogs to a public event?
Kids were all over the place, dressed in costumes. Dogs, even the best dogs, are often startled by someone in a costume.
We were so upset we left immediately.
This actually happened to me before, at Petsmart. I was waiting in line with my dog and a girl walked by with a huge Rottweiler and it suddenly snapped and jumped at my dog. She just acted like it was no big deal.
I am still hacked off...
Has anyone had a similar experience?

CHOCOLATE_WATER_ICE

No, however I am not comfortable with other people's dogs whom I don't know well. I don't like to be leaped on or licked by any dog.

I have had dogs in my family that I loved. So, I am definately not anti-dog.

There is a leash law where I live. People violate it all the time.

I have had dogs flying at top speed toward me while their owners yell "don't worry he/she won't bite". That's little comfort.

It's like they feel their dog is too special to be on a leash. People also walk their dogs on a retractable leash extended what seems like fifty feet and won't retract it til their dog is within inches of someone. I, too have seen children and grown people with dogs that seem beyond their physical strength.

I really get how you felt. I feel that way with dogs flying toward me and not snarling (any size or type of loose or not controlled dog).

I think a lot of people don't realise that others do not welcome contact with (to them) strange dogs.

I saw a vet on TV who said there are no dogs that don't bite. All dogs have the capacity to bite given the right provocation.

I will thank all dog owners to take that risk on themselves (and also all the joy and love that comes with their specific dog) and allow me to avoid it.

In other words, dog owners please keep your dog away from other people til they invite contact with it.

gail

As a home care RN, I get to see a lot of animals in homes, outside homes, free range animals. I long ago stopped asking "is he friendly" since no one has ever answered "no, he's vicious".

I like (not love) dogs and would have one if not that I am too busy to give it the care it would need. I had one as a child. I can picture how terrifying your situation must have been. And I imagine your dog is very nice. But I do take a little exception to your statement that "everyone loves my aussie and she loves them right back" - the second part of that statement is undoubtedly very true -
I can not imagine you having a nasty dog. But everyone does not love your dog - I have a fear of big dogs. Many people just don't like any dogs, not matter how lovable. So please don't make the mistake of thinking everyone will love her and set up a situation where distance can be kept until you know.

And in answer to your question about why people have dogs like that - because they can't go around waving a gun all the time, because they never grew up, because they are truly cowards at heart.

L84SKY

That's scary and I’m sorry that it happened to you.
People should know their dogs and respond accordingly. I love dogs, but still, I find no comfort in, “don’t worry he won’t bite.” Mainly because I think that if people can’t control their dog, there is no telling what the dog may do, most of us aren’t dog whisperers. If other people had already noticed that the Rotweiller was “pretty vicious”, they should have removed the dog. The staff at these events should send bad dogs home.

I once had a pre-owned Dalmatian, sweet dog and loved people but she could be squirrelly around other dogs. She hated Golden Retrievers, I think b/c they, as a breed, tend to be good dogs and made her look bad. It was embarrassing.
Most people don’t want to be realistic about their dogs. They think that, “this time they’ll be good”, although they’ve done nothing new to circumvent the bad behavior. I didn’t know what to do with my Dal except realize she wanted to be Alpha Queen of the Universe and keep her on a short leash and not go to any doggie events with her.

I’m thankful that she liked children, once a man was carrying his small son on his shoulders and when he saw the Dalmatian he swooped the kid down and stuck it in the dog’s face. It happened so fast, all I heard was the child yelling, “Pongo, Pongo” and he was there, in her face. (Pongo is the name of the dog in the movie 100 and One Dalmatians. I couldn’t believe the man could have been so thoughtless. To his child and my dog. If my dog would have hurt the boy, she may have been destroyed.

I’m not sure that people own Rotts and Dobies b/c they can’t have guns etc. and I’ve met Pit Bulls that are just wonderful dogs.

There are a couple little dogs in my neighborhood, one a Chihuahua and the other a Pekingese, who let my sweet ShepX know on a regular basis that they’d like a piece of her.

ccolor

And then there are the people who think their dogs are welcome any and everywhere. We were at a small neighborhood party last night when one couple brought their two dogs inside. We all like the dogs, but it's very uncomfortable trying to eat with a long nose also trying to munch on whatever is on everybody's plate. Finally the owners took them home and we all could relax. I like dogs, and if we had one it would be considered one of the family - but not to be pushed on everybody else!

TxTravelPro

Just to clarify...
Me saying everyone loves my dog was certainly an exaggeration.
I keep her on an 12" leash.
She stays at my side like a service dog. She only comes in contact with people who run up to her.
I say everyone loves her because people are always running up to her.
And I say she loves everyone because she justloves to be petted.
Oh, and we also research where we take her to make sure she is welcome.
The point was the vicious dog who came after us.

amdc

My experience has been that people who own mean dogs either don't realize their dog is dangerous around other people and animals or they don't care. Some people seem to as you said in your post, think it's funny. It's not! I totally agree with you. If a dog is mean they should not be around the public and they should not be handled by small children who are not powerful enough to control them. I've seen several dog attacks and/or near attacks. It's certainly not funny. The owner of the dog sounds like a jerk to me. Someone should have complained to the event organizers.

toedtoes

No child should have the end of a leash of a dog they can't control IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN.

That includes the perfectly trained dog that never does anything wrong.

If another dog were to go after the dog, that child is in the middle of it and that's dangerous.

When in a public setting, all dogs should be on a 6 foot leash or less. Six feet is the greatest distance that you can control the dog easily. Anything longer than that and you don't have control. With a 6 ft leash, even if the dog is at the end of it's lead, you can grab the leash with your arm extended and pull the dog back into you. Anything longer, and you have to do that at least twice in order to control the dog - and that leaves the opportunity for something to go wrong.

The other thing to remember is that while your dog may be "perfect" and "well-behaved" and "in control", etc., that other dog may not be. When I did adoptions, I had to confiscate the toys and treats that the foster homes would bring for the dogs to have while at the store. They always got mad at me and argued that their dog would never do anything. What they ignored, was that all it takes is for ONE dog walking by to see or smell the treats and there could be a fight. Or ONE child grabbing the toy to play with.

When you take your dog out in public, ALWAYS assume something WILL happen and stay prepared. I love taking my dogs out with me, but I have learned that it lessens my enjoyment of the event because I constantly have to watch everyone else (watching my own dog isn't enough). Now, I find dog friendly outdoor areas (National Forests are great) to take my dogs - then they can enjoy and relax and so can I.

P.S. When I moved into this house, the neighbor saw my dogs and asked "are they friendly?" I replied "as long as no one tries climbing into my backyard or coming into the house". Out and about, I'll respond with a "yes, she's friendly but she gets a bit nervous" or "yes, but please let her come up to you" or "yes, but please don't get on the ground as he considers that an invitation to stand on you", etc.

nytraveler

I'm an animal lover. I grew up with a dog and have owned dogs and cats that were treated like family members, including sleeping on the bed at night.

BUT - dogs do not belong at public events unless the events are specifically for animals. I know people will disagree and say I hate dogs. that's not true. I just recognize how dogs, even the sweetest ones, can behave if they are startled or feel threatened. Never mind what can happen if large and aggressive dogs are brought into contact with the public.

It simply shouldn;t be allowed.

And - every dog that isn't on the owner's fenced property should be leashed at all times. And any dog of a large, aggressive bred should be muzzled if they must be brought to public places. (My vet even had a rule that certain breeds had to be muzzled to be brought in for an appointment - including pit bulls, staffordshire terriers, dobermans and rottweilers.)

nytraveler

Sorry - 2 more points:

in the New York areas many companies won;t write homeowner's insurance if you own one of the dogs of those breeds.

And our co-op has recently changed the rules so that any dog owner wanting to buy an apartment has to bring the dog for an interview as well. (We had a subleter bring in an enormous yellow lab that grew up in the country and was used to chasing and killing small animals. After an incident in which it tried to attack another (small) dog in the building we evicted them - and have added the new rules. It's sad, because this is a pet friendly family building - and we don;t want to put in place restrictions that many buildings have - barring dogs that weigh more than 20 or 25 pounds.

toedtoes

I agree with everything except your last paragraph NYTraveler.

No dog should wear a muzzle unless THAT dog has a problem. A well-trained pit bull is less likely to be a problem than an untrained golden. And a muzzle is not something that should be used willy nilly - it hinders a dog's respiratory and temperature-control systems.

Years ago, I took my akita (an "aggressive" breed) to the vet's to get neutered. In front of me was a woman with a small dog in a carrier. The vet walked through the room and saw my akita and then went into the storeroom. Suddenly, their was a huge amount of growling. The vet burst out of the storeroom and pointed at my akita and asked (in a very abrupt and antagonistic manner) "is that dog growling?". I said "no, it's the dog in the carrier".

After having taken care of my akita, the vet knew that he was a very sweet dog and not aggressive in the least.

My point is the small dog in the carrier was a far more dangerous dog than my "dangerous breed". When we start basing our decisions on a breed basis instead of an individual basis, we open up a lot more problems.

NewbE

When we lived in Germany, we were surpsied and pleased to learn that every dog owner (EVERY) must go through a training course before the dog can be taken out in crowded public areas or on public transportation. Dogs deemed too excitable even after training must wear muzzles in public.

So I do not agree that dogs do not belong in crowded places, per se. What I think is that we Americans must accept more responsibility for our dogs' behavior, and we must submit to mandatory training courses. I don't care what the breed is--an out-of-control dog is not socially acceptable.

Rich

It's amazing how responsible an owner can suddenly become when you open the flap of the holster and tap the handle of a .38 . . .

TxTravelPro

Rich... I actually had the same thought. I know people that carry concealed handguns. Had this dog made it to my dog and I had been carrying a concealed weapon, this story may have been on the news instead of Fodors.

mireaux7

i think a lot of it depends upon how the master trains the canine. i have encountered a good share of vicious dogs that have been well trained by their owners. generally, when i first encounter a dog i am of course a stranger to it, until the owner commands the dog to be calm, then they start to pat the dog letting the dog know its ok..then the dog sniffs me so he can learn my scent. after that, i can pet the dog.

i have even encountered a pit bull, but it was very well-behaved because its owner was very vigilent with its training, i was able to pet it the first time i met it.

L84SKY

Excellent point Newbie.
Dogs need to know their place in the pack. I think the difference btwn my bad dog Dalmation and my dog now, is that I learned that.

nytraveler

Sorry -

Some breeds are inherently more aggressive than others. Pit bulls are specifically bred for it - at least in this area.

And some breeds of dogs are dangerous due to size and strength of bite (even if a chihuahua is really mean there's a very limited amount of damage it can do).

And, some dogs really can;t be trained.

If a particular breed has a problem being muzzled, then it's probably not a good candidate for living in a fairly small city apartment - and using dog runs populated by many other, usually much smaller and friendly, dogs.

toedtoes

All dogs can be trained. Some dogs may be a LOT harder to train, but they can all be trained.

The problem is that people either 1) don't train the dog at all; or 2) train the dog incorrectly and/or to be aggressive.

The longer the dog is left without proper training, the harder it will be to change that behavior.

A novice dog owner should not get hard to train dogs (i.e., pitbulls, akitas, mastiffs, dalmations, huskies, malamutes, border collies, jack russells, corgis, etc.). A novice dog owner will not know how to deal with the specific needs of those breeds and will unintentionally create more problems.

The most important thing for any dog is to know where it stands in the "pack". If you don't do that, you will have problems. In addition, each member of the family MUST put the dog in its place. That is the biggest problem I see with dogs. One adult does all the controlling of the dog and the dog therefore sees itself as higher in the pack order than the other family members. They have no control over the dog.

Yes, dogs are bred for various purposes and that can include aggressiveness. HOWEVER, no dog breed is bred to be aggressive for no reason. Even with a pitbull, the purpose of their aggression is specific (other dogs). Many pitbulls are trained against that purpose and do fine. Others are either trained to encourage it, or not trained against it, and that is where the problem lies.

The other issue falls into the "pack" issue also. Dogs that live with one or more other dogs will have more issues with things than dogs raised singly. It's because when the dogs are together, they begin to behave like a proper pack. A dog, who alone would NEVER hurt a cat, may hurt a cat when around another dog. Many people with multiple dogs don't get that and think that their two dogs together will behave like their dogs do apart.

As for dogbites, a small dog often does more damage than a large dog. The reason is because people (and kids especially) stick their face up to a small dog more often than to a large dog, and that is where they get bit - in the face.

P.S. All dogs have a problem with being muzzled. It constricts ALL dogs' respiratory and temperature-control systems. Some are more succeptible, but it can be dangerous for ALL of them. That is why muzzling is not a catch all solution. You can't muzzle a dog it's entire life - that's cruel and inhumane.

shoefly

I'm sorry that happened to you!!!

It's the story of my life in the park - IDIOTS and their dogs. Unbelievable. Low lifes.

Rich

"I know people that carry concealed handguns. Had this dog made it to my dog and I had been carrying a concealed weapon, this story may have been on the news instead of Fodors."

. . Don't leave home without it!