Have you ever seen a recommendation for a restaurant that made you want to scream out "don't do it! Save yourself, your money, and your insanity!".

I'm not talking about restaurants that are for the most part good but maybe someone had a bad experience in I'm talking full blown overpriced tourist traps.

Example; Carnegie Deli. While it may have a few redeeming qualities, charging $20 for a sandwich is not one of them. Especially when you can go to Katz or Second Avenue for better meat at a third of the price.

The TOTG thread made me think about this.

Oh, God, all the time!

Ellen's Stardust Diner is awful. I got some kind of stew there that had exactly *one* piece of meat in it. Thank God I missed the singing waiters! I guess they don't sing all the time.

Also...Carmine's. The food is fine, but I'd only go with a large group because you get a bunch of entrees & side dishes and share them. But for two people? Doesn't make sense. Plus it's very loud and there's always a wait.

And, GoTravel, though I do go to Katz's every once in awhile, I think the corned beef there is often disgusting - fatty and/or gristly. My bf always orders it forgetting about his past experience (though once or twice it's been good). The hot dogs and pastrami are very good.

The problem with your question, GoTravel, is that we could never agree on what is a "full-blown tourist trap". Most restaurants are "for the most part good but someone had a bad experience." Some are consistently great. Hardly any are consistently terrible. What you're doing here is starting another flamefest--just sit back and wait for defenders of Carmine's, Carnegie Deli, etc. to take up arms.

Absolutely not E, I am not trying to start a flamefest. If that were the case, I think there are much more controversial topics than delis. Secondly, I like Carnegie, it is just overpriced.

Don't you think that places like Hard Rock, WWF, Planet Hollywood, ESPN Zone (which I frequent), and Jekyll & Hyde are tourist traps? Most of the theme places are tourist traps. After all, who would eat at a place called Models Cafe? Food for those with discriminating eating disorders?

Just food for thought (pun intended).

I don't really understand what you are trying to say, especially since you state that you like some of the restaurants you consider to be tourist traps. Why would you eat at the Carnegie Deli if you can go to Katz's for a third of the price?

For many, the destination is just as important or more important than the food. I would consider them tourist destinations rather than tourist traps. Personally, I would not eat at the Carnegie Deli but it has a history that appeals to some visitors so they want to eat there.

While the places you name may not be for you, for others they obviously are. If you are a wrestling fan, you may think the WWF place is great. Personally, I had a great time at the ESPNZone. If someone is visiting from a place that does not have something like it, they may be interested (plus, the beer isn't that expensive).

Just my opinion...

I am just as puzzled by posters telling people NOT to go somewhere. If someone wants to experience Tavern On the Green for example, so what if I think it is crowded and the food is mediocre? Let them go and find out for themselves.
I don't like Carmines because of the noise and crowds but we have friends that take their kids and meet their friends there every weekend.
Different strokes~

The only time I've ever eaten in Carnegie was when I was in Manhattan for an extended stay working and a girlfriend flew up to spend a couple of days. Someone had told her it was THE New York experience. My food wasn't bad, just overpriced.

Of the theme restaurants I listed, the only one I've been in is ESPN Zone. Great place to watch a game (I do hate they took out those huge barcaloungers down front). I have recommended ESPN Zone but is it a tourist trap? You betcha.

Another recommendation I don't get is Island Burgers & Shakes. It isn't bad but it doesn't wow me. What does wow me that is cheap? Ess-a-bagel.

Ohmigod, is Katz's Delicattesen still around? We used to eat there all the time when I was a kid...and I'm talking about the Camelot era!

And nothing will convince me that some people won't feel like they've done justice to their vacation until they do the "full blown and overpriced tourist traps." In some peoples' minds, name dropping is everything. Let them pay $20 for a sandwich; to them it represents good value.

I thought Carnegie was just fine. $20 for a sandwich...if I got a sandwich that size where I live, it wouldn't cost much less. I think many people just try and put down touristy places to make themselves appear more "in the know". And I'd love to do a blind taste test of a slice of corned beef from Carnegie, Stage, Katz's and Second Ave and see who really finds the difference enormous and gross.

So you are admitting that ESPNZone is a tourist trap, something I don't agree with, yet you still recommend it to people... and at the same time, you say why would anyone eat at these places.

To me, it sounds like you would be making a recommendation that would make you cringe. Perhaps, we are mixing themed restaurants and regular restaurants.

I'm not really sure what the definition of a tourist trap is or should be. According to Webster's, it is "a place that attracts and exploits tourists." I think Times Square and the whole Broadway thing is a tourist trap. I don't understand why people would want to go there or see any play available just because it's on Broadway. However, people flock there. Is it a New York experience? I guess. Is it representative of New York? I don't think so. But people want to see. Why do people spend $100 to see some crappy musical? Because they think it's the NY experience. Same can be said about other restaurants that have a history in the city.

Again, just my two cents.

I agree with what you're saying GoTravel and if you feel like screaming "don't do it" you should. I think that's what prompted the long thread on TOTG. It is different strokes for different folks...Patrick recently posted about being underwhelmed by Chez Josephine. It's OK. He's allowed & so are you.

There was a long thread a while back about people being flamed for saying they didn't like a place. The title was something like "we need a critic.." Well we're all critics on this board & should feel free to say what we think. Otherwise what's the point. But just because I hate Carmine's doesn't mean I don't understand why others like it. I can't understand traipsing (sp?)down to chinatown or Little Italy when there are places just as good or better that are more conveniently located but tourists want to do it. OK.

I personally don't understand going anywhere special/out of the way for deli, a bagel or a burger for that matter. These are not important food experiences (not to me anyway) & they're readily available all over NYC. But when someone <asks where's the best place or what's good near x location, I provide the info I have.

I've never been to Ellen's stardust diner but people with kids seem to love it. Same with some of the other theme places.

Someone asked today on the Europe board if the Lido/Moulin Rouge were worth going to in Paris. My answer...it depends etc. I tell them what I think/experienced & let them decide.

Frankly a meal is just a meal. It usually won't make or break a trip. Sorry for the tirade. I'm just saying if you want to scream don't do it- do it

Every time I tell someone to go to ESPN Zone, I preface the recommendation with "I hate to say this but...".

Very nice response mclaurie!

Yes, all the time. For example, many people on this board recommend eating at the Rio buffet in Las Vegas. It may have been the best buffet 10 years ago, but after Harrah's took over the food is just plain gross. Yet people still suggest it, and I am even more amazed when people say they enjoyed it!

Hi all. I absolutely agree that everyone here should be able to say that they think, good or bad, about a place. Why wouldn't it be OK to tell someone not to go somewhere? I would greatly prefer someone recommend me a better restaurant than a McDonalds type place or an overpriced deli, if I can get better food elsewhere.
I was one person who a while ago who posted a thread on places I didn't like and some people really got bent out of shape. I never criticized the people who like to go those places, I just listed some places I was not thrilled with. GoTravel, you got upset with me and said that I shouldn't criticize a place just because I didn't like it. Please understand that I am not trying to "start" anything here - I fully support your right to say what you believe. My point is just that this board seems to be hypocritical at times. About the same time I posted my thread, there was a similar thread on what aggravated people at restaurants. Some people really got upset if the waitress said things like "How are WE doing?" and things I wouldn't even notice, or be bothered by. Again, if you get upset by things waitresses say to you, that's OK. But some seemed petty, and some were by some of the same people who were quite nasty to me.
Again, GoTravel, I am not criticizing you or your post. Actually, I think it's great to see you have some negative opinions. I didn't think you were starting a flamefest. You and everyone here are entitled to say what they believe and not be criticized for it.

Loki, the next time you're in NYC and you want a sandwich, go to Parisi Bakery on Mott St. in Little Italy. for about $5 you'll get a humongous, delicious sandwich that you have to split with someone because it's so big. I usually get the semolina. The only catch is that the place has no seating, so you'll have to find a bench somewhere.

I think there are times to speak your mind and speak out against a recommendation you don't agree with, but only if you have a good reason. If you constantly say things like "Don't go there... it's terrible," you only come off as a someone who thinks they are the only one who is right. However, if you have a good reason or explain why you didn't like it, then it gives the person something to consider. For example, just about everyone says Mamma's Fish House in Maui is the best on the island. I ate there and was extremely disappointed... I explained why and prefaced that I may have set my expectations too high. I also stated that I'm in the minority in my feelings. But if I just came out and said "Mamma's sucks," that's not helpful.

Recommendations are just peoples' opinions. Everyone is never going to agree and the person seeking the reccommendations needs to realize that. It's up to him or her to sort through all of them and decide what they want... perhaps do some more research. It's OK to comment about a particular restaurant, but just be sure to do so in an intelligent way.

Karens, I remember your post about travel rants. I think the reason you touched a nerve with people is because, for no apparent reason, you spoke badly of destinations that many people enjoy. And while you didn't actually criticize the people, it may have felt that way to some, especially by saying things like "why would anyone do this or that?"

Oh yeah... and Parisi's is great... I second btp2. They make their own bread and use Boar's Head meats. I was eating lunch there 2 or 3 times a week for awhile. It's on Mott between Spring and Broome. However, it's lunch only. I'm pretty sure they close up by 3 or 4.

"a recommendation for a restaurant that made you want to scream. . ." Well, yes, but not as much as reading unwarranted and misinformed exaggeration. A hot pastrami sandwich as the Carnegie Deli is currently $10.95 (I just checked their website). A hot pastrami sandwich at Katz' is currently $ 9.95 (I just had one a couple of days ago). I may not be a math whiz, but I can't quite figure how that is interpreted as "a third of the price".

I far prefer Katz' Deli to Carnegie also, but let's call a spade a spade, OK? And when you add in the mix for a tourist who is staying midtown and ready to catch a matinee to a show, a trip to Katz to save one dollar (well add eight dollars for the subway for two both directions), just doesn't seem very logical.

I also sometimes question the people who rant about how places are just terrible. When was the last time some of those detractors went to Tavern on the Green for example? Or are they relying on memories from years back, or just caught up in the spirit of "let's knock anything that might be touristy"? Maybe the food is just average at some of these places, but there is a lot more to a dining experience than the food. And when people exaggerate to the point of saying the food at a place like Tavern on the Green is "inedible" or "simply awful", well that kind of exaggeration makes me want to scream also. As Zagat's says, "the bottom line. . .is that our surveyors often choose to eat there when they are showing off New York." In other words, even though many New Yorkers know the food isn't the greatest in the world, they understand it is good enough and the experience is unique enough that they know their visitors will really enjoy it. It's too bad that others can't understand that kind of logic.

Patrick, if you happen to be in the area do me a favor and walk by and look at the menu. I paid either 19.95 or 21.95 for a brisket sandwich a couple of years ago from Carnegie. Also, the menu on the website is 3 1/2 years old.

karens, remembering back on your post, you used words such as tacky and hate in your post. You questioned individuals who chose those places.

Hello. Yes, regarding travel destinations, there are some places I really don't like, and some I "hate". Am I not allowed to think that way? Some people "hate" the beach. My husband hates going to art museums. I hate Chinese food. (Yes, I know everyone loves Chinese food). Saying I hate Chinese food, or McDonalds food (which I also intensely dislike) in no means implies that I think people who like this kind of food are bad, or anything else, just as it doesn't imply that I don't like Chinese people! I believe that people should travel to where they want, even if it's to places I don't like. Then maybe mine will be less crowded
Look, all, I don't want to re-start the nastiness that happened on my old thread. My point, again, is that everyone should be able to give their opinion here, good or bad.