kam

Monica, Consider that the Bay area dwellers can ski in Tahoe (they also talk of traffic on Monday mornings!) but they probably don't ski in Taos, Vail, Aspen or Europe too. It's great to take your dog--we go often to Carmel with two because it's a very dog friendly place, but I don't want to have a house there. This whole discussion has prompted much thought. Looking back on my experiences in the Midwest, I've come to realize that I'm definitely a non vacation house person! Never realized there was such a thing, but now it makes a lot of sense. Thanks, Neal. I got some insight here.

Jeanette

Just a postscript. I was glad to hear that some who have vacation homes here do not exclude travel to other destinations. It made me actually stop and count how many people I know who have a second/ vacation house or condo and if they travel elsewhere. My count was: 11 people with a second vacation home, 1 who has retired to that home and sold the original city location house, 3 others who own a vacation condo or timeshare with others. Of those 15 that I've counted above I can only recall 2 ever going any other place for any of their leisure time. Is it because we are all Midwesterners and basically rather provincial? Most but not all are nesters, for sure. Most never had anywhere near the "off" time that people on this forum have. Many were blue collar / service industry people who have worked long, long hours.
I am basically a nester, enjoy rehabbing and have built two houses in the last twelve years. BUT I LOVE TO TRAVEL. I also never got to go anywhere when I was young. Also observed last weekend in the rainy drive back from Northern Michigan that vacation towns have tons of "for sale" signs at the present time, far more than 5 years ago.

noname

Pardon moi, but what exactly is "a nester"? It could mean many things, so please clarify.

Jeanette

My understanding of a "nester" is a person like Ann in this thread, who truly loves home care activities and creating individual specific environments that are their "home" base and center of comfort. Martha Stewart types/ Victory Garden-man types etc. They come in both sexes and are artistic, handy and take joy from long term projects at the second home, and not just how much jet-skiing they can get in. One couple I know are both "nesters" by this definition and fight god-awful traffic (5 hours at least each way) to get 36 hours in the garden and on the same "quiet" pier while any of 4 married-couple kids drop in at random to eat, use the equipment and leave. They ENJOY putting in the pier.
They do. They get pleasure by always being the entertainer also and never the entertained. I am a nester in my primary location only. Entertain all the time there, but couldn't stand the
second home by the end of the third year. My youngest (who is now 20) has stated MANY times that he will never, ever have a vacation house. He goes fishing at a different lake every month or so now. I, too, really thought that the kids would like it a lot more than they did.

michele

After surviving a summer of house painters, roofers, tree - trimmers, handymen, and landscapers ( Oh! the joys of home, especially old home, ownership) I am beginning to wonder why I have one home, two would be unthinkable. ( I can't remember the title of a Peter Mayle book in which he sampled the best of everything, including the vacation home. He came to the conclusion that a good relationship with a fine hotel was the way to go).

Michele

George

Have to agree with Michelle, one house takes alot of upkeep. I cannot fathom having 2 to deal with. And who wants to mow 2 lawns? I guess I am not just not the nester type.

Neal-Maybe people like the tax write offs of a second home?

Jeanette

Yes, the tax/ investment issue is central, but most buyers of second property do start with a optimistic and idealistic view of its future use. They may see it as giving their children (or themselves) a closer and more active role with nature; more exposure to a lifestyle that still has remnants of our more rural past. All these things can be true, but the energy, patience, and mechanical skills needed for this are stupendous.

Beth

When I was growing up we had a summer home. My mother would go with me and my two brothers for the whole summer, by father would come up weekends. My mom, to this day, says she never had a "real" vacation, because her summers always involved cooking, cleaning and making beds. I think this experience made me not a second home person. I'm with Michele, maintenance on one house is enough.

That said, we do go back to Martha's Vineyard often. There is a certain relaxation, and comfort level in going to a well known, well loved spot. I don't want to do it to the exclusion of other travel, but we try to fit in repeat trips every other year or so. I find I get into "vacation mode" so quickly when I know where I'm going and what to expect.

Monica Richards

Kam: As a Bay Area skiier I know all about the traffic! In the winter we go skiing literally every other weekend, and take one trip to another state to ski. If you're going to ski that much, owning (or leasing for a season) a cabin might make sense. We have to reserve a hotel or cabin at least in a week in advance, and you don't always know if the weather is going to cooperate (as a result, I've become quite the inclement weather skier!). Also, condos in Tahoe can be rented out to others when they're not in use. That said, I still don't see one in my future, just because of the upkeep hassles, but I do understand why other people make different choices. And my poor doggy loves the snow and we've only found one place that will let us take her, and it sleeps 8 so that means organizing a big group, and you can imagine what a pain that is! She only gets to come with us once during the season.

rick

We live full time in a West coast place that has many part time people with second homes. In our neighborhood 2/3 of the homes are empty most of the year. A few of them are empty all but a few weeks in the entire year. Meanwhile the gardeners come every week and mow the large lawns and weed the huge flower gardens..that no one but the gardener and passing cars see most of the time.
10 years ago we were living here but where there are now over 20 large second homes there were trees instead. Almost all of the trees have been chopped down and now empty large houses sit with windows that face "clear views" of the water..and rarely do people look out of those windows.

tax

A second home is a STATUS SYMBOL, and a tax deductible one at that. If you can't figure out a way to write off your gargantuan SUV or your Lady President Rolex, a second home is the next best thing. Ever discover by surprise that someone you knew owned a second home? Probably not, because they make sure to tell you all about it. What good is a status symbol if it's not visible or well known?

karin

Michele. I, too, love Peter Mayle. The vingette you remember is in his book Aquired Tastes.

patricia

Hey tax-code poster, you hit the nail on the head! Status it is! Like we really care, ya know?????!!!!

OR....could it possibly be that some people are too simple and/or scared of the world... and have no love of adventure?

TinyTim

Ouch!! Thwaaaack....yowww!!

Is that really you, Janeane Garafolo, posing as "Patricia", spitting bile at everyone and anyone who crosses your path?

So people who own second homes are simpletons, sallow, cowering and generally wastes of human flesh?
And praytell what is it about you that makes you God's gift to humankind?
Obviously not your tact, sensitivity, insight or civility.
Have a cocktail, take a nap or see a shrink.

kam

Monica, Have you taken doggie to Carmel? I'm sure she/he would love Carmel Beach which is off lead! Pretty poor skiing for you, however. There are lots of places at Big Bear in So.Cal that used to take dogs in ski condos. Are you sure you've pursued this thoroughly? Try contacting a realtor and saying that the main criterion is that you could bring your dog. Sometimes if you offer an enormous guarantee sum against doggie damage, owners will reconsider and rent to you. Sorry we don't have a Tahoe place, but I would let dogs come if I did.They love the snow, but they also love the smell of the sea.

Monica Richards

Kam: No, haven't taken doggie to Carmel yet. It's on our "to do" list for sure--or one of the resorts in the Anderson Valley that takes dogs. As far as ski condos, the realty companies that manage places seem to have the restriction "No dogs" on everything they rent. The best I've found is to contact the individual owners, and beg and promise and offer a huge deposit. It's just a pain to do that every time! The cheesy motels in Kings Beach will also accept dogs, but only if you are in the room with them. Our dog, bless her little soul, is not a good "car dog" and will not stop barking if we have to leave her in the car in a parking lot, so those places are out. But that would certainly be a perfect solution if she would only cooperate.

palette5

First, I always read anything with Neal's name attached. Thank you for so much thought-provoking posts done with class. In a moment of madness nearly 25 years ago, we bought a piece of land in a lake development 2.5 hours from home. We just finally "sold" it this past month - actually we nearly gave it away to a professional just to get out from under the property owners' fees and taxes. I at least had the good sense to stay out of time shares. It takes my weekends just keeping up my main home. (My staff just quit and left me high and dry!!) But, I do wish our initial investment had been at the beach, instead of some artificial lake area. We might at least have been able to enjoy it for awhile. We never had the money to build a house on our land, and it sat there growing "whatever." One of the costliest mistakes we made.

mickey

Just a short note --
We live in the midwest not the East and we have a vacation home.
I is exactly 1 hour and 15 minutes from front door to front door. When we get to the lake it is like breathing different air! We don't receive phone calls there - actually we have a rotary dial phone but haven't used it much. We have friends just down the road that my husband has been friends with since 7th grade. They only live 2 hours on the other side of the lake, but it sure is a fun place to get together. Our children and their friends have spent many fun weekends there over the years.
I think the secret to enjoying a vacation home is to keep it a vacation home. By that--I mean we keep it a cabin. It should be a little funky not just a second home. We have visited friends at their vac. homes and they are just like home. Big kitchens, all the stuff - you could dust for hours. We prefer hammocks, books, a couple of grills, bathing suits and cheap thongs on our feet.
Oh, and We don't feel like we have to been there every weekend during the summer. We are leaving tomorrow for a week of just driving thru Wis. doing whatever strikes our fancy. And have a 3 week trip planned to Italy in Sept.
We feel very lucky with the location of our cabin. We can get there just in time for a late dinner and back home for a little league ballgame if we need to.

anon

The "allure" that eludes you is confusing. For us, it's simple. Our second home allows us to escape from the traffic and crowds as they descend upon us! Living in a resort area, where the well-to-do would come for the "season" and even the "not-so-well-to-do" would come for shorter times from nearby cities - often the hubby stays in the City during the week and commutes to the second home on weekends - we seek refuge from the hoards decending and impacting our quiet peaceful ways! A "cottage" can be anything from a beach bungalow to the mansions in the Berkshere's (for the "atmosphere" and love of Tanglewood) or a place in the Hamptons! And it is wonderful! In addition, when I was young would rent our seaside home and move to our "farm" that was nearby and on a river just for the income! But, now as a homeowner of my primary residence, we seek to leave on weekends to avoid the crush and crowds! What makes better sense than another home of our own? And we are going the opposite way of the traffic! Two sets of chores and upkeep - of course, but well worth it! We also have a condo in the Islands for those "winter" get-a-ways and it pays for itself with rentals! But we still manage to take "vacations" for the pampering and luxury or the seeing and doing - we are not "slaves" to any of our houses! I guess we are pretty fortunate that we can and do and that it works for me! No announcement that we have "arrived," it something that is just "done," and since I am almost forgiven, living in the "suburbs" of NYC, it is a choice that many make ... and have made for many many years. Nothing confusing about it at all!!! It is just a lifestyle choice!!

Susan

I have to agree with Neal. I live in Toronto, and so many Torontonians own cottages north of the city, the area is actually known as 'cottage country'. The cottages seem to be of 2 types - either very very basic or incredibly beautiful homes. There is one common denominator however - the complaints from those who drive up there every weekend - traffic is terrible, etc. etc. etc. Another complaint is the amount of entertaining they have to do - all their non-cottage owning friends have to visit! And then there's the upkeep -the roof needs replacing, the yard needs to be maintained, etc. etc. It really doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me! Their lives are often very busy - after getting home late Sunday, they do laundry and other chores Monday and Tuesday, buy groceries Wednesday, pack up Thursday and head out to the cottage Friday. But each to his own .... mind you, when they start to complain about the cost, I have to restrain myself from pointing out the obvious - they did choose to have two homes, obviously it's going to cost.

Another observation - those with the very basic cottages - often the plumbing is primitive to say the least. Yet often these people can't understand how I can chose to visit another country and stay in basic accommodation, somewhere without all the amenities. Yet that's what they do every weekend!!

You know, I am glad a lot of people leave the city on the weekends. It's wonderfully peaceful for those of us who stay behind!