CHOCOLATE_WATER_ICE

I am considering a stay in NYC the week of Dec 17th - 23rd.

I was realising that it gets dark early at night then and I hate early mornings (being at the whatever at 7 AM is not me - more like 10 AM).

So, I wonder, will there be a lot of people on the streets til 10 PM or so?

I will not even think of driving (yes, I know parking will be pricey) in the city. I want to walk to and see the skating rink, the store windows, etc. I want to go see a show and the Rockettes show. I want to go for a horse drawn ride in the park and eat at Tavern on the Green (yes, I know lots of people hate it - I've seen it on TV, think it's pretty and want to go anyway).

I've been to NYC before - not in the winter, not near the holidays and I never took the subway.

Is it pleasant/reasonable/relatively safe to walk the streets at night (after dark, that is and before 10 PM)? I'm talking not liking deserted city streets at night - not crime stats. However, that does matter, too.

I have this fantasy of seeing the city instead of staying at home for the holidays and being depressed (don't ask, please).

For those who live there or who have been there this time of year, is this a good time to go (based on my preferences) or will it be lonely, deserted and not the old movie/new movie NYC scene I desire.

Sorry for the long post. I don't know exactly what to ask. Except sitting alone in a small hotel room afraid to go anywhere after dark is not my idea of a good time.

I know NYC is a great place. However, I don't have friends or family there. There will be only two people on this trip. I want to know if this will be a good time for someone who doesn't do taxis to walk or subway in the city at night and feel safe (given that I am a little chicken of deserted city streets at night (any city).

Thanks for any help.

bill_boy

Would you mind repeating your questions and preferences? A little more use of punctuation marks and smaller sentences would help for somebody like me who's a little slow with catching on with long and un-punctuated sentences.

marymarra

I think I am following you; the city is very crowded during the period you mention--lots of bustling crowds, etc. I might add that you are not too early to be making your plans--get those Rockettes tickets.

As for the weather, it could be fine or it could snow, but, unless there is a blizzard, the city doesn't shut down and it is very pretty at that time of year. You would want to exercise the caution you do in any city at night, but, believe me, you can barely move through the crowds at Rockefeller Center at night.

Hope this helps,

Mary in D.C.

jlm_mi

The later it gets, the quieter side streets will become. But the streets in the areas you're talking about (5th ave, near times square, etc) will be bustling! People have to get their Christmas shopping done, and can't stop at 4pm just because the sun goes down.

The subway will definitely be safe long after 10pm as well.

I'm not sure why you mentioned that you don't do taxis, but know that although there will be people everywhere, if you should happen to find yourself on a street that is too quiet for your taste (not unsafe), you could hop in a cab for a few blocks for very little money and feel better.

Go, have fun. But do realize that NYC at that time of year will be very, very expensive (hotels, that is).

nytraveler

The week before Christmas all of the shopping areas will be very busy - and many of the stores stay open until 11 pm or later. Also - along 5th avenue you will see many people looking into the special animated window displays, visiting St Pat's, looking at the tree etc.

And that week a lot of companies have Holiday Parties - as well as informal gatherings - theaters will be full and there are a lot of additional musical programs and activities. So - yes the streets should be busy until at least midnight - unless you hit a real cold snap (possible but unlikely - it's rare we get more than 2 or 3" of snow before Christmas.)

So any areas you're interested in should be busy and perfectly safe.

The subway will be fine - and runs 24/7 - although after midnight the trains are lees frequent - perhaps every 20 to 30 minutes vs 3/4 minutes at rush hour.

PLEASE do not eat at Tavern on the Green - since it's sole benefit is the beautiful view of the Park - which is just brown and crunchy in December. If you must go - just go for a drink - but esp at that time of year - food and service will be even worse than usual due to special events.

If you want to do something holidayish go to the Sea Grille at Rockefeller Center and you can have some excellent sea food while watching the skaters on the Rock Center rink. Or go to the River Cafe in Brooklyn for quite good food and a wonderful view of the city lit up at night.

kodi

I was there on my own last Christmas and never felt all alone on a street. The streets were bussling with people shopping and looking at the Christmas lights up and down the main streets, like 5th Avenue and all around Rockefeller Centre and the huge tree.
Go and have a great time.
I too, didn't want to sit in my hotel room at that time of year.
SO I went out and had a great time wandering around to the different outdoor Christmas craft fares, and to the popular areas.
YOu'll be fine .. Have a great time.
Just be cautious when you are on deserted cross streets.

CHOCOLATE_WATER_ICE

Thanks everyone.

I feel a lot better now. I didn't want to make a plan that everyone except me knows is foolish.

I will reconsider Tavern on the Green.
What is so bad there? Hot food served cold? Fly doing the backstroke in the clam chowder? Boring food choices? I have never seen anything other than "don't go there/I don't like it". What specifically is wrong there? It looks pretty inside on TV.

For the record, I love to read/watch/learn everything I'm able to find on food/cooking. However, it is a mental hobby. I confess (and apologise in advance) that I like plain, simple food best. Might a non-"foodie" eater be happy with a meal there? Or is it bad by any definition?

Thanks for all the help.

tuscanlifeedit

The Tavern on the Green questions are good ones; I would like to know, too.

Years ago, we never went to NY without going to Tavern. Then everyone began to say Don't Go! Somehow, we stopped and haven't been in probably more than 15 years.

But I never remember having a bad meal there, and it was very pretty. Is it awful now?

And last Christmas, around the 23rd, at 10 pm, we had to fight huge crowds to get near Macy's windows. It was really a lot of fun, with a sort of carnival atmosphere.

Another favorite of ours is the outdoor Union Square Christmas Market. Last year, we wanted to try other markets, but never made it. Do a search and you will find there are a few other Christmas Markets in New York.

We are usually there for Christmas, for family reasons, and we just love it.

handmaiden

I don't live in Manhattan, but my daughter, Emily, does. I can't believe that you would ever think that the streets in Midtown would be deserted during the Christmas holiday season! Honey, you won't be able to walk there will be so many people.

Hate Tavern on the Green. HATE IT! I would rather go to the Rainbow Room for the view.

There was a really fab Christmas Market in Bryant Park this past Christmas. It will probably be back.

Christine

marilynl

Well, I know everyone always says that Tavern on the Gren is awful, and I can't say I remember much about the food, but I enjoyed my one visit. Was in New York with daughter when she was in 8th grade, and she wanted to do all the stuff from "The Babysitter's Club" books, and that included Tavern on the Green, Central Park, Bloomie's, Four Seasons, etc., all of which we enjoyed. I actually thought the inside of Tavern on the Green was lovely, with avery festive atmosphere.

tuscanlifeedit

I read that there was ice skating at the Bryant Park market; we never made it, but I did want to go.

kswl

I hear that about TOG all the time---"don't go, the food is overpriced and terrible," etc.

We don't go for the food! The location is wonderful, the place is beautiful at Christmastime, and our family celebrated the christening of two of our children here. That's enough reason for us to go. And the food is more than edible.

mclaurie

Tavern on the Green is a pretty spot and twinkling lights at Xmas time are perfect. But the food is terrible (think institutional food like you would get at a rubber chicken dinner at a hotel). The service is amateurish at best and the prices are outrageous for the quality of the food. That said, everyone should go at least once.

For a better idea of what's it's like, here are some reviews

http://travel.yahoo.com/p-reviews-27..._and_reviews-i

mclaurie

I should have added, a very good alternative, although not quite as conveniently placed is the River Cafe. Good food, wonderful service (they make everyone feel like a celebrity) and wonderful view.

rivercafe.com

reviews
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-reviews-27..._and_reviews-i

http://nymag.com/nymetro/food/review...211/index.html

And if you want to eat in Central Park, the much less famous Boat House is very nice. Not outstanding food, but nice, especially for lunch.

MikeT

The reason people discourage TOG is that that many people are very disappointed because it's all window dressing wih little substance. It is pretty inside, but is "pretty" enough to balance out bland food, spotty service, and high prices? If you go in with reasonable expecations--this will be an "experience" but with potentially disappointing food and service--you will be fine.

Toucan2

Have a great time at the Holidays in New York! I finally managed NY in December last year so I could see the city all dressed up, and as said, you won't be lonely on the streets! Maybe even especially in the evening when everyone wants to see the lights. You'll barely be able to move in some spots, but it is worth it.

Think about going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and seeing the tree there as well as all the outdoor stuff and the tree at Rockefeller Center. It's gorgeous.

Don't let people deter you. You want to go, and I'm with other posters, go at least once, and have your expectations in line with the quality of the food. It's pretty, and traditional, and you'll be able to cross it off your list of places you wanted to visit. I don't remember the food being horrid, just not memorable at all. You've said you're not a foodie, so you should be fine.

dsquared

That's a wonderful time of year to be in the city. The areas you're talking about have been shoulder-to-shoulder with people when I've been there the last few years. Great atmosphere!

The Bryant Park market that handmaiden and tuscanfedlit mention was great and Grand Central had a market in one of the halls that was fun too.

Second Toucan2's suggestion of visiting the Metropolitan Museum to see the tree and Neapolitan creche - really beautiful. There will also be an exhibit of Tiffany objects at that time that should be wonderful. The Tiffany windows are amazing.

Hope you have a great time.

nytraveler

I have been to Tavern on the Green literally dozens of time - either for industry events or taking out of town clients who wouldn't be satisfired until they had been because "everyone" has heard of it.

Here's what's wrong.

It's quite expensive - incredibly expensive for the quality.

The food is poor - little better than you would get in a college dining room - it is apparent that much is prepared in advance and "steam-tabled" until needed rather than preapred fresh when ordered.

Service is also poor - both supercilious (contempt for the silly tourists that don;t know better than to eat there) and unprofessional (confusion as to who gets what, some main courses brought 10 or 15 minutes before others, clearing tables while others are still eating). They also have a tendency to rush you through the meal to get more turnover.

Whenever I am forced to go I order defensively (what is the hardest to ruin) and usually end up with a main coure salad (in which I have received lettuce etc well past it's prime - which once when sent back was NEVER replaced.)

Yes - it is pretty. So, go for a drink - but don;t eat anything - when there are so many better places for the same - or even significantly less money. I made 2 other suggestions that are typical of NYC and festive at the holidays - plus have quite good to excellent food.

If you're alone you can eat at the bar at Sea Grille - many sincle people or even couples do if they come without a resie and can;t get a table - and have others to chat with while still getting the good food and great view.

wheramigoing

New York City streets are still busy at 10:00pm. Especially during the holidays. Just use caution and a little common sense and you should be fine. If you're in any area which makes you feel uncomfortable just leave. Buy a seven day unlimited metrocard in the subway station and ride the trains and buses until your heart's content. The station entrances are clearly marked and they're everywhere. Make sure you pick up a subway and bus map in the station, you may have to ask the clerk in or around the token booth for them. If there is no clerk in the booth look for someone in uniform with a burgundy vest on. Mass transit is absolutely the best way to see the city.

By all means eat at Tavern on the Green if you want. It's spectacular at Christmastime. The food may be hit or miss but the view is always great! New York city does Christmas like no other city in the world. Don't miss Rockerfeller Center, the giant snowflake at 57Th St and 5th Avenue, FAO Schwartz, the Christmas windows at Saks Fifth Avenue and Lord & Taylor stores, the humongus Christmas tree at the Museum of Natural History decorated with all oragami decorations, Bryant Park behind the main library (our lions are back!)at 42nd St and 5th Avenue with vendors in white tents lit up with little twinkling lights. The list is practically endless.

Enjoy!

CHOCOLATE_WATER_ICE

Thanks again for the great info and advice.

If I go to Tavern I will keep my expectations for the food and service low. Thanks a lot for the detailed info on it's flaws. I will look for online reviews. I do that all the time for hotels. I didn't think of it for food.

I really appreciate all the help and ideas of great things to do.