jag1jag1

Where would you go--Eleven Madison Park, Union Square Cafe, or Balthazar?

bill_boy

If you are looking for a more grand, quieter and, perhaps, a more formal ambiance, then EMP is a few notches above the the other 2 when it comes to a celebratory dinner. It is also costlier.

It has a new chef, Daniel Humm, who steered the old Campton Place in San Francisco from obscurity to one of the better restaurant in the city. I agree with some trusted friends that he's successfully working his magic at EMP.

mitchdesj

EMP sounds great, have not tried it yet. We adored Gramercy Tavern , decor and food.

mclaurie

It depends on what kind of food and ambiance you want. Balthazar is loud, busy, boisterous and while the food is very good, it's just bistro food, nothing terribly complicated. Union Square is also busy, but the food is more inventive. EMP is, imo, much more upscale than the other 2 but I haven't been since the new chef. But there are also many other places from which to chose.

ekscrunchy

From that list, definitely EMP. Are you set on choosing from those 3?

jag1jag1

I'm open to other suggestions. We don't need grand, quiet or formal. Also not excessively expensive. Busy and lively would work. We've been to Gramercy Tavern for lunch--we liked that..

We will have our 19 year old daughter with us. We live near San Francisco so we eat out a lot.

Aileron

Jag,

Why don't you list some San Francisco restaurants you like and I'll make some comparisons?

jag1jag1

Most recent family birthday dinners have been to Town Hall in S.F. and Downtown in Berkeley.

Will be going to Ozumo next week for next birthday event (but I don't want Japanese food in NY).

Boulevard and Hayes St. Grill in S.F., Eccolo and Rivoli in Berkeley, Oliveto in Oakland, Bistro Don Giovanni and Bouchon in Napa.....

Does that help? I realize it's a bit of a range.

lcuy

Haven't been to Balthazar, but would go to Eleven Madison Park over Union Square in a heartbeat! I tried both in March and April.

The food, tables and service at EMP were way above USC. The prices may have been a bit more at EMP, but they offer more complimentary items- breads, cheese sticks, amuses and sweets.

The atmosphere is very different...EMP is quiet, elegant, power dining; USC is Bistro style- casual, loud, tables close together.

Aileron

Jag, sorry to say that I don't know all the restaurants you mentioned. I can tell you that Bouchon is a ripoff of Pastis a Manhattan bistro owned by Keith McNally, the Balthazar owner. The menus is set in the same design and type styles. The difference is that Pastis looks a lot better.

In my three trips to San Francisco last summer I was disappointed in virtually every restaurant I tried. Felur de Lys, which was once great is now going throgh the motions.

Aqua, is overpriced and overrated.

As for sushi, I tried SushiRan in Sausalito and was very disappointed. My California friends say that when they want good sushi, they go to Los Angeles.

I did like Farallon, however, and I think you would find Balthazar better, both in food and service.

jag1jag1

Can you order a la carte at EMP? I'm only finding fixed price menus.

Any other suggestions are still welcome.

butter924

Of the 3, I would also recommend Eleven Madison. My recommendations would also include Cafe Boulud or Bouley (both have excellent food, albeit more formal atmosphere - but not too stuffy- than the others)

lcuy

Most of the menu at EMP is ala carte.

seetheworld

EMP is great - both the food and the atmosphere.

bill_boy

EMP would be the most comparable to Boulevard, which imho is a terrrific restaurant in the SF Financial District.

Bouchon in Yountville, Thomas Keller's successful take on a French brasserie dining, would approximate Balthazar. However, the dishes at Balthazar tend to lean more on bistro-type foods, and the restaurant is a lot more noisier with tables that are set very much closer to one another. I actually prefer the dishes and more formal amosphere at Bouchon than at Balthazar.

If you want something like Oliveto in Oakland (or Encanto in SF), then you should try Lupa (the finest Roman trattoria outside of Rome), or it's more upscale affiliate, Babbo.

Bistro Don Giovanni in Napa is a little more like a "red sauce" Italian and there are a TON of these in NYC. Becco and Trattoria Trecolori in the theater district, Sfoglia and Paola's in the Upper East Side, Cacio e Pepe and Il Bagnatto in the Lower East Village, etc. etc.

For something similar to Hayes Street Grill, then Mary's Fish Camp or Pearl's Oysters are the ones to go in NYC.

Shalott

Trendy, busy, lively, not quiet, but not deafening:
Barca 18 (soft letter C) on Park Avenue between East 18th and East 19th Streets. Reserve. Spanish-style food and tapas, nothing too exotic, but very tasty and well-presented. Fantastic sangria.
If I wanted to spend more than that and stay in the general vicinity I'd go to Gramercy Tavern or Gotham Bar and Grill, but both are more staid.

jag1jag1

Thanks for all the input. Right now I'm leaning toward EMP and then will look at a few of the other suggestions for the other nights we are in NYC.

I asked this question on another thread--is breakfast at Norma's worth it? Is it only something tourists do? I need something in that neighborhood, but maybe sticking to something more simple is good enough if we are having a nice dinner (and going to Jersey Boys).

bill_boy

Breakfast at Norma's is not bad ... especially if you're into huge, oversized portions of, say, a plateful of large waffles topped with what seemed like a full can of whipped cream was emptied into it or very, very large omelettes as thick as your fist. It'll do if you plan on skipping lunch or having a very light lunch after a few hours.

Since you are coming from the Bay Area, if you were to compare it to, for example, Bette's in Bekeley, Norma's is not your regular homestyle cooking breakfast place. Bette's is a lot better.

jag1jag1

We aren't going to have lunch--just breakfast and dinner. If things are really this big, do people ever share an order?

bill_boy

No lunch? Looks like you're all set for Norma's, then. I don't think there's any issue with sharing. BTW, just as a disclaimer, one's perception of serving size may vary with another's.

Also, I think that they take reservations. Make sure that you call ahead.