NY - Subway Question
Dec 29th, 2007, 09:55 PM
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NY - Subway Question
Our family (incl boys 12 & 9) staying at Affinia Dumont 1/2-1/5. Our first trip to NY. Would like to experience the subway. Most of what we are doing will be a cab ride, walk, or bus tour. I am thinking that getting to the Am Museum of Natural History from hotel on Friday morning may be our opportunity to take the subway. However, looks like it would require a transfer. I think that we would depart from Grand Central. Can anyone suggest the best way? Is there such a thing as MapQuest for the subway system? Thanks.
Dec 29th, 2007, 10:05 PM
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I'm sure New Yorkers will give you the best info, but in the meantime, I have used when visiting the trip planner page on mt.nyc.ny.us - it has a drop down menu where you can type in starting point, destination, how much you want to walk, subway, bus, etc -
I also frequently use hopstop.com - some complain it is not up to date, but I always print out the info and double check with the hotel or wherever I am before following it completely -
definitely take the subway !
and go to nyc.subway.org and get some history on it to share with the boys ! have fun -
I also frequently use hopstop.com - some complain it is not up to date, but I always print out the info and double check with the hotel or wherever I am before following it completely -
definitely take the subway !
and go to nyc.subway.org and get some history on it to share with the boys ! have fun -
Dec 30th, 2007, 01:58 AM
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Here is something i put together for another on;line NYC board:
Rules of the Subway
The NYC subway system is an amalgam of lines that were once privately owned and were purchased by the government to unite them. This explains why there is duplication in many areas and no trains in other areas. The line that King Kong destroyed is now underground.
With few exceptions the subways in Manhattan run north/south. Almost all, except those that go to the Bronx, will eventually make a turn into Brooklyn or Queens. The two Manhattan trains that only run east/west are the shuttle from Times Square to Grand Central and the L train that runs along 14th street.
There are green and red globes at the entrance to many stations. Green supposedly means open all the time and red means sometimes. Sometimes vary form station to station. Some have mechanical card readers without token booths others are just closed. But red is usually open during week day business hours. Got that.
Transfers occur at many stations. Some transfers are across the platform, others on another level, while others are an interminable walk through corridors which vary from extremely crowded to ill light and very lonely. The main transfers are usually madhouses at all times.
The subway runs all day, all night every day including Christmas, Yom Kippur, and Ramadan. If you are lucky there will be more trains during rush hour.
Do not expect to understand any announcement through the PA system. Do not expect an explanation regarding delays. And if they do make an announcement, do not necessarily believe them.
Many newer trains have peppy computer voices announcing the stations. Very un-NY. There are usually correct. On the newer trains there is also an electronic linear map showing the line and stops. That is usually right. There are, however, large lit arrows that show the general direction and they are often pointing in the opposite direction.
If you miss your stop, you will not die, even if you wind in Brooklyn, Queens, or the Bronx. Well maybe the Bronx. Just get off at the next stop but there is the rub. Not every stop has a corridor which connects trains in both directions so you may have to exit, go upstairs, cross the street, descend again and pay another fare. Although there are major exceptions, this is often true on the local lines where are there are no transfers.
There are basically two types of trains, expresses and locals. Expresses stop at designated stops while locals stop at every station. There are times when the local is actually faster. When there is a problem, locals can run on the express tracks and vice versa. Sometimes during extenuating circumstances stations will be skipped. If you are lucky an announcement will be made. (See above rule regarding PA announcements.) And during those times you might be standing on a platform watching a train pass you by. If a train blows its whistle as it enters the station, it often means it ain’t stopping.
Many students take the subway to school. Many travel as hordes when school lets out. 99.9% of the kids are just being kids. Do not be afraid. As I get older, I realize how frightening we were as kids to adults.
A serious note: Unfortunately, the subway system is not designed for the disabled. All stations have stairs and the few that have escalators or elevators are unreliable.
MetroCards
Never ask how to use the machines that dispense MetroCards beforehand. Always stand in front of the machine as long as possible so a line can grow behind you. Hint to tourists: If the person has not moved their hands in fifteen minutes, get on another line.
Never think that the person at the token booth will help. Never believe the posting behind them, “There are no delays at this time” and “Have a nice day.”
Always crowd the person in front of you at the turnstile. Not every turnstile works and pirouettes can occur.
The turnstile swipe is an art form. Sometimes the first swipe will not work. (Although them seem to be working better later.) And do not be surprised that after multiple swipes, if you are charged for two trips.
There is a lag time of 18 minutes on an unlimited card between uses for consecutive train uses.
Getting Directions
New Yorkers who barely know their name know the subway lines in Manhattan but few know the subway in the boroughs, other than the one where they live. Always ask for directions, NY’ers are always proud to display their subway knowledge. Conversely, NY’ers only know the bus lines they use and have no clue where the other buses go.
The MTA is installing directional plaques in the ground just outside of some stations.
Above each platform are signs that identify the trains which will stop at the station and the general direction. Do not be alarmed that the signs say, Brooklyn Queens, or the Bronx, it is the general direction. Downtown means south and uptown means, well you get the drift.
There are no subway maps above ground. So you will have to descend to into a stop to read one.
Riding the Rails
Entering the train can be a bit of free for all. The victory goes to the swift. If you dawdle people will push in front and may say things like “Excuse me Sir/Madam, but may I get ahead of you.” At rush hours, people will push from behind and you can be carried with the tide. If you have children, hold their hands and make plans if you get split up. I do this with adults, who so not know the train if someone should miss their stop. (Not hold their hand but make alternate plans.)
Do not stare at people. This is not a joke. It can be interpreted as impolite or worse.
Do not emulate NY’ers who:
1. Lean on the pole so no one else can hold on. It has been known to hold the pole in a certain way so that the knuckles of one’s hand in the back of the slob.
2. Transport their refrigerator during rush hours. People carry all sorts of objects all the time.
3. Read the New York Times spread open, with their splayed open taking up two seats. (This is a male specialty.)
4. Stand with your bike and take up the room of six people. I will never understand, if you have a bike, why you are taking the train. I would however, like to borrow your helmet sometimes.
5. Don’t shower and wear muscle shirts.
You can do just about anything in NYC but do not block a subway car door. When the train stops, the doors open, and you are blocking them there are many choices: make yourself small, get off the train so there is room and then get back on, move to the center, or be prepared to be bounced and cursed. It is prime spot to stand, own it with pride.
Do not say to your fellow passenger, this is like being in a sardine can. We have probably heard that before.
There will be people selling candy, others God. It is your choice to engage them in conversation.
Getting off
It as important to know the stop before as it is to know the stop you need. The stop before warn all your friends and relatives. Know which side the doors will open. Most doors on an express open on the right. On the local trains, the doors usually open on the right on local stops and on the left on express stops. This is a rule of thumb.
Another rule of thumb regards, people not moving out of the way. Say, “excuse me,” loudly. If they do not move after the second “Excuse me” you have my permission to push your way through the crowd.
Rules of the Subway
The NYC subway system is an amalgam of lines that were once privately owned and were purchased by the government to unite them. This explains why there is duplication in many areas and no trains in other areas. The line that King Kong destroyed is now underground.
With few exceptions the subways in Manhattan run north/south. Almost all, except those that go to the Bronx, will eventually make a turn into Brooklyn or Queens. The two Manhattan trains that only run east/west are the shuttle from Times Square to Grand Central and the L train that runs along 14th street.
There are green and red globes at the entrance to many stations. Green supposedly means open all the time and red means sometimes. Sometimes vary form station to station. Some have mechanical card readers without token booths others are just closed. But red is usually open during week day business hours. Got that.
Transfers occur at many stations. Some transfers are across the platform, others on another level, while others are an interminable walk through corridors which vary from extremely crowded to ill light and very lonely. The main transfers are usually madhouses at all times.
The subway runs all day, all night every day including Christmas, Yom Kippur, and Ramadan. If you are lucky there will be more trains during rush hour.
Do not expect to understand any announcement through the PA system. Do not expect an explanation regarding delays. And if they do make an announcement, do not necessarily believe them.
Many newer trains have peppy computer voices announcing the stations. Very un-NY. There are usually correct. On the newer trains there is also an electronic linear map showing the line and stops. That is usually right. There are, however, large lit arrows that show the general direction and they are often pointing in the opposite direction.
If you miss your stop, you will not die, even if you wind in Brooklyn, Queens, or the Bronx. Well maybe the Bronx. Just get off at the next stop but there is the rub. Not every stop has a corridor which connects trains in both directions so you may have to exit, go upstairs, cross the street, descend again and pay another fare. Although there are major exceptions, this is often true on the local lines where are there are no transfers.
There are basically two types of trains, expresses and locals. Expresses stop at designated stops while locals stop at every station. There are times when the local is actually faster. When there is a problem, locals can run on the express tracks and vice versa. Sometimes during extenuating circumstances stations will be skipped. If you are lucky an announcement will be made. (See above rule regarding PA announcements.) And during those times you might be standing on a platform watching a train pass you by. If a train blows its whistle as it enters the station, it often means it ain’t stopping.
Many students take the subway to school. Many travel as hordes when school lets out. 99.9% of the kids are just being kids. Do not be afraid. As I get older, I realize how frightening we were as kids to adults.
A serious note: Unfortunately, the subway system is not designed for the disabled. All stations have stairs and the few that have escalators or elevators are unreliable.
MetroCards
Never ask how to use the machines that dispense MetroCards beforehand. Always stand in front of the machine as long as possible so a line can grow behind you. Hint to tourists: If the person has not moved their hands in fifteen minutes, get on another line.
Never think that the person at the token booth will help. Never believe the posting behind them, “There are no delays at this time” and “Have a nice day.”
Always crowd the person in front of you at the turnstile. Not every turnstile works and pirouettes can occur.
The turnstile swipe is an art form. Sometimes the first swipe will not work. (Although them seem to be working better later.) And do not be surprised that after multiple swipes, if you are charged for two trips.
There is a lag time of 18 minutes on an unlimited card between uses for consecutive train uses.
Getting Directions
New Yorkers who barely know their name know the subway lines in Manhattan but few know the subway in the boroughs, other than the one where they live. Always ask for directions, NY’ers are always proud to display their subway knowledge. Conversely, NY’ers only know the bus lines they use and have no clue where the other buses go.
The MTA is installing directional plaques in the ground just outside of some stations.
Above each platform are signs that identify the trains which will stop at the station and the general direction. Do not be alarmed that the signs say, Brooklyn Queens, or the Bronx, it is the general direction. Downtown means south and uptown means, well you get the drift.
There are no subway maps above ground. So you will have to descend to into a stop to read one.
Riding the Rails
Entering the train can be a bit of free for all. The victory goes to the swift. If you dawdle people will push in front and may say things like “Excuse me Sir/Madam, but may I get ahead of you.” At rush hours, people will push from behind and you can be carried with the tide. If you have children, hold their hands and make plans if you get split up. I do this with adults, who so not know the train if someone should miss their stop. (Not hold their hand but make alternate plans.)
Do not stare at people. This is not a joke. It can be interpreted as impolite or worse.
Do not emulate NY’ers who:
1. Lean on the pole so no one else can hold on. It has been known to hold the pole in a certain way so that the knuckles of one’s hand in the back of the slob.
2. Transport their refrigerator during rush hours. People carry all sorts of objects all the time.
3. Read the New York Times spread open, with their splayed open taking up two seats. (This is a male specialty.)
4. Stand with your bike and take up the room of six people. I will never understand, if you have a bike, why you are taking the train. I would however, like to borrow your helmet sometimes.
5. Don’t shower and wear muscle shirts.
You can do just about anything in NYC but do not block a subway car door. When the train stops, the doors open, and you are blocking them there are many choices: make yourself small, get off the train so there is room and then get back on, move to the center, or be prepared to be bounced and cursed. It is prime spot to stand, own it with pride.
Do not say to your fellow passenger, this is like being in a sardine can. We have probably heard that before.
There will be people selling candy, others God. It is your choice to engage them in conversation.
Getting off
It as important to know the stop before as it is to know the stop you need. The stop before warn all your friends and relatives. Know which side the doors will open. Most doors on an express open on the right. On the local trains, the doors usually open on the right on local stops and on the left on express stops. This is a rule of thumb.
Another rule of thumb regards, people not moving out of the way. Say, “excuse me,” loudly. If they do not move after the second “Excuse me” you have my permission to push your way through the crowd.
Dec 30th, 2007, 03:22 AM
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Definitely, take the subway.
From Grand Central, take the Times Square Shuttle (look for the S in a grey circle) to Times Square, then transfer (follow the signs in the underground walkways) to the C train going uptown (towards 168th Street). Ride the C train until you reach 81st Street and, voila, you're there!
From Grand Central, take the Times Square Shuttle (look for the S in a grey circle) to Times Square, then transfer (follow the signs in the underground walkways) to the C train going uptown (towards 168th Street). Ride the C train until you reach 81st Street and, voila, you're there!
Dec 30th, 2007, 03:45 AM
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I very much appreciate the responses! This NY forum has been so helpful. I am more excited than the kids.....and can't wait until they experience NYC....they'll see what I'm talking about then!
Dec 30th, 2007, 04:47 AM
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The easiest way to get there, will NOT be going to Grand Central.
The easiest way is to walk from your hotel to 6th Ave, which is only 4 blocks, and take the B train to 81st St. The subway actually stops under the museum.
If it's cold that day you can take the bus which stops right across the street from your hotel to 6th Ave and trasfer to the B train.
The closest subway to your hotel is the Lexington Ave line and the closest stop is at 33rd and Park Ave. The Lex line is on the East Side of town and will take you down to the Village, Wall Street, Ground Zero, Staten Island Ferry, Chinatown and Little Italy.
I'd suggest getting a map of the city (and the subway) so you have a handy reference while you are here.
The easiest way is to walk from your hotel to 6th Ave, which is only 4 blocks, and take the B train to 81st St. The subway actually stops under the museum.
If it's cold that day you can take the bus which stops right across the street from your hotel to 6th Ave and trasfer to the B train.
The closest subway to your hotel is the Lexington Ave line and the closest stop is at 33rd and Park Ave. The Lex line is on the East Side of town and will take you down to the Village, Wall Street, Ground Zero, Staten Island Ferry, Chinatown and Little Italy.
I'd suggest getting a map of the city (and the subway) so you have a handy reference while you are here.
Dec 30th, 2007, 05:53 AM
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www.hopstop.com is also useful for figuring public transit directions.
Dec 30th, 2007, 10:23 AM
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Greenboys
One important most NYers learn quickly: Combining walking with the subway can be quicker (and less annoying!) than trying to take the subway from your closest station to your destination's closest station--especially if a transfer is involved.
Thus, you could actually get on a train at your closest stop--33rd and Park--and get off at the museum stop--81st and CPW--but you would have to transfer two times and walk through a number of lengthy tunnels underground. Your suggestion to begin at Grand Central eliminates one of those transfers.
Travelbuff's suggestion to take the B train from 6th and 34th is excellent. As mentioned, you could walk across town (the same distance at to Grand Central) or take the crosstown bus on the same fare.
Aduchamp's subway info, while humorous, is ambiguous about the importance of continuing to swipe your MetroCard at the same turnstile if your first swipe doesn't work. It's a little tricky to get the speed of the swipe just right. When you swipe, a small display on the turnstile will show "GO" or "Swipe again at this turnstile." DO NOT change turnstiles if it doesn't work the first time, or another fare will be deducted. Continue swiping at the same turnstile, changing the speed of your swipe slightly for better results.
My office s quite close to the Affinia Dumont, so I'm interested to hear your impressions.
One important most NYers learn quickly: Combining walking with the subway can be quicker (and less annoying!) than trying to take the subway from your closest station to your destination's closest station--especially if a transfer is involved.
Thus, you could actually get on a train at your closest stop--33rd and Park--and get off at the museum stop--81st and CPW--but you would have to transfer two times and walk through a number of lengthy tunnels underground. Your suggestion to begin at Grand Central eliminates one of those transfers.
Travelbuff's suggestion to take the B train from 6th and 34th is excellent. As mentioned, you could walk across town (the same distance at to Grand Central) or take the crosstown bus on the same fare.
Aduchamp's subway info, while humorous, is ambiguous about the importance of continuing to swipe your MetroCard at the same turnstile if your first swipe doesn't work. It's a little tricky to get the speed of the swipe just right. When you swipe, a small display on the turnstile will show "GO" or "Swipe again at this turnstile." DO NOT change turnstiles if it doesn't work the first time, or another fare will be deducted. Continue swiping at the same turnstile, changing the speed of your swipe slightly for better results.
My office s quite close to the Affinia Dumont, so I'm interested to hear your impressions.
Dec 30th, 2007, 11:19 AM
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One important most NYers learn quickly: Combining walking with the subway can be quicker (and less annoying!) than trying to take the subway from your closest station to your destination's closest station--especially if a transfer is involved.
In addition to this, the subway is infinitely faster than taking a cab to many locations in NY, and far less expensive, especially now that cabs charge for waiting time as well as distance. Years ago, we took a cab from the Marriott Marquis to the ferry to the Statue of Liberty and after a cab ride that took forever, we swore off cabs in Manhattan.
In addition to this, the subway is infinitely faster than taking a cab to many locations in NY, and far less expensive, especially now that cabs charge for waiting time as well as distance. Years ago, we took a cab from the Marriott Marquis to the ferry to the Statue of Liberty and after a cab ride that took forever, we swore off cabs in Manhattan.
Dec 30th, 2007, 04:31 PM
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I would like to reinforce a couple of things Aduchamp has said.
Many people took the info as a joke. It is not.
DO NOT stare at people in the subway. This is the human equivalent of taunting a fenced guard dog - a direct challenge. Nothing may happen - but I wouldn't count on it.
DO NOT stand in the doorway unless you are getting out. Your kids - esp the younger - can be carried out by the tide of departing passengers.
People will try to take anything on the subway. If you see someone with a large object - move down the platform to a different set of doors. (I did once see a conductor refuse to move the train until a guy trying to squeeze on at rush hour carrying 2 used tires gave up).
The subway is safe - but loud, dirty and you need to move quickly.
Plan your route in advance, each stay with one kid and pick a place to meet if you get separated.
(I'm a native New Yorker and rode the subway by myself since I was 11 and never had any serious problems - beyond a few unsuccessful gropers.)
To get to the Museum of Natural History take the shuttle (S train) from Grand Central to 42 St Times Square Station. (You can;t get lost - the Shuttle just goes back and forth between those 2 stations.) There you will switch for free (underground, using a variety of stairways and passages) to the #1 train (Broadway local) going north - to the Bronx. You get off at 79th St and walk a couple of blocks east to the Museum.
Many people took the info as a joke. It is not.
DO NOT stare at people in the subway. This is the human equivalent of taunting a fenced guard dog - a direct challenge. Nothing may happen - but I wouldn't count on it.
DO NOT stand in the doorway unless you are getting out. Your kids - esp the younger - can be carried out by the tide of departing passengers.
People will try to take anything on the subway. If you see someone with a large object - move down the platform to a different set of doors. (I did once see a conductor refuse to move the train until a guy trying to squeeze on at rush hour carrying 2 used tires gave up).
The subway is safe - but loud, dirty and you need to move quickly.
Plan your route in advance, each stay with one kid and pick a place to meet if you get separated.
(I'm a native New Yorker and rode the subway by myself since I was 11 and never had any serious problems - beyond a few unsuccessful gropers.)
To get to the Museum of Natural History take the shuttle (S train) from Grand Central to 42 St Times Square Station. (You can;t get lost - the Shuttle just goes back and forth between those 2 stations.) There you will switch for free (underground, using a variety of stairways and passages) to the #1 train (Broadway local) going north - to the Bronx. You get off at 79th St and walk a couple of blocks east to the Museum.
Dec 30th, 2007, 06:43 PM
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Taking the #1 train makes no sense based on where you are staying.
Trust me the easiest way to get to the NHM is the B train at 34th and 6th Ave.
If you are not used to our subway system, the easiest way of getting to wherever you are going is going to be one with the least connections until you feel comfortable with the system.
Trust me the easiest way to get to the NHM is the B train at 34th and 6th Ave.
If you are not used to our subway system, the easiest way of getting to wherever you are going is going to be one with the least connections until you feel comfortable with the system.
Dec 31st, 2007, 07:16 AM
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I might suggest you rethink your desire to only use the subway once during your trip. Relying on cabs can be problematic, especially when it's raining or during the morning and evening commute. If I'm not mistaken your hotel is on 34th st near 2nd avenue? If so, you'll need to get through traffic at the Queens-Midtown Tunnel, which can be a real mess.
I'm sure your hotel will have a small subway map. Even with that, it may be complicated. Those of here in NY are far friendlier than given credit for. If confused, just ask a local. Many of us are so helpful that we will actually correct someone who just gave you bad information within earshot of us.
I'm sure your hotel will have a small subway map. Even with that, it may be complicated. Those of here in NY are far friendlier than given credit for. If confused, just ask a local. Many of us are so helpful that we will actually correct someone who just gave you bad information within earshot of us.
Dec 31st, 2007, 08:14 AM
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nytraveler,
I was particularly concerned about Aduchamp jokiness regarding MetroCard use. Three of the five suggestions were jokes, stating behaviors contrary to that which are recommended. I've seen enough people struggle and grow frustrated with MetroCard swiping to know that it is a major concern and wanted the information to be clear on that point.
Subways would be a great way to move your family though Manhattan quickly and effectively. However, if there are four people (you name yourself plus two boys at least), a taxi might cost the same or be cheaper for shorter trips. A taxi can take no more than four--your boys are too old to be "lap" passengers.
I was particularly concerned about Aduchamp jokiness regarding MetroCard use. Three of the five suggestions were jokes, stating behaviors contrary to that which are recommended. I've seen enough people struggle and grow frustrated with MetroCard swiping to know that it is a major concern and wanted the information to be clear on that point.
Subways would be a great way to move your family though Manhattan quickly and effectively. However, if there are four people (you name yourself plus two boys at least), a taxi might cost the same or be cheaper for shorter trips. A taxi can take no more than four--your boys are too old to be "lap" passengers.
Dec 31st, 2007, 09:19 AM
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Greenboys -
The directions I gave you are correct IF you're coming from Grand Central - which is what you said. And, coming from the east side that's how I would go - which I think is easier than trekking all the way over to 6th Ave.
If you're coming from the west side the B train makes more sense.
The directions I gave you are correct IF you're coming from Grand Central - which is what you said. And, coming from the east side that's how I would go - which I think is easier than trekking all the way over to 6th Ave.
If you're coming from the west side the B train makes more sense.
Dec 31st, 2007, 09:37 AM
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The purpose was not only to be informational but to ease visitors notions of what to expect on the subways. Many are nervous for the first few times.
I understand that when you offer such a posting 1) there will be those who are not careful readers
in this case, not reading carefully about staring at other writers; and 2) those who will look for the aspects to which they diagree, such as omitting the minutae of one thing or another.
Such is life.
I understand that when you offer such a posting 1) there will be those who are not careful readers
in this case, not reading carefully about staring at other writers; and 2) those who will look for the aspects to which they diagree, such as omitting the minutae of one thing or another.
Such is life.
