Ah, OK, tom42, my misunderstanding.

(Because tone can be difficult to discern online, I wish to clarify that I am trying to discuss and not merely argue!)

As usual this has become a rather vague argument and like mentioned above it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. We haven't talked about percentage of total workers who only do the bare minimum as opposed to the percentage of workers who blissfully do extra work simply for the joy of it and not for bonus or higher pay.

Yes, I tend to be a little cynical, but I have a hard time believing that more than half of the country's total work force actually do "more than is expected of them" without caring about pay or financial reward. And I won't hazard a guess to the number of workers who look for ways to finish work early, get there as late as possible, extend their lunch as long as possible, and even take breaks whenever they can because they feel they aren't making enough to "break their backs" going out of their way to do more. But I'll bet it's more than a handful!

The issue for me is the idea that servers will do the same excellent job for LESS pay, which $15/hr in NYC at a busy mid range restaurant would amount to: a pay cut. It seems to me that that question needs to be addressed more urgently than the question of convenience for foreign tourists.

It seems Danny Meyer has a plan to address that, and I agree it needs time to work.

If doing a less "excellent" job means I will be interrupted less often I am all for it. I ate lunch out today, and between my server and the manager I was asked at least four, maybe five, times how I was doing. If I'm not happy I will make sure you know, otherwise, deliver the food, keep an eye on my glass(es) and LEAVE ME ALONE.

Where DO you go where you receive such terrible service?? Every single restaurant-related thread hears you banging on about these dens of misery. Is it bad luck, bad taste, or bad karma?

I agree with Thursdaysd, it seems to be considered providing great service if you go up to customers 3 or 4 times during a meal to see if everything is ok, if I want something i'll let them know or at least they can wait until I've finished eating

I appreciate a waiter/waitress checking in a few times to see if we need anything, only because we often do. If it gets to four or more inquiries it's usually a training issue. We have the problem at a few restaurants but not most, regardless of individual servers.

tom: >>"If that is the case, does it follow that employees in the many jobs that don't involve tips only do the bare minimum necessary to keep their jobs?"

I agree vincenzo, except that I don't really think it's a matter of how much a person is paid that affects his willingness to work more without extra financial reward. For example I've rarely met anyone who makes a couple hundred thousand a year who still didn't think he deserved more -- and who still wouldn't want to get a bonus if he goes out of his way to do more than is expected -- regardless of how much pride he has in his efforts.

In fact I'm not sure if there would be a great difference between workers making the minimum and workers who are paid huge salaries in terms of their willingness to do more work without extra compensation.

I think this falls into the same category as "why would Oprah care about making more money when she already has so much?"

Well, this has taken a philosophical turn, hasn't it??

I have met very few truly un-materialistic (is that a word?) people in my life. I think Neo is right that even someone making a lot of money (relative to you, say) wants more.

The other component is money as a measure of achievement. Remember Michael Milken? He was famous for living modestly even as he broke laws to make more money. His wife was said to have been gobsmacked when she finally found out how much money he hauled in.

Warren Buffett is famous for living relatively modestly, too.

But that's not the same as saying that money is not a motivator for these guys.

>

It's not solely a matter of taking pride in a job well done, although I think that is a factor. It's also the human trait of wanting to please others (i.e. your bosses in this case), the possibility of promotions down the line, good references if seeking new employment, etc.

(oh and I agree with Neo in that I don't think it makes a big difference what a person is making)

> I have had good service in Europe; I have also had shockingly bad service, and saw a waiter in Cologne tell a man who complained about waiting 15 minutes for a menu "You don't like it? Go to McDonald's!"

That's not an anecdotal story, it's typical. The reason French and other European wait staff are known for snootiness is directly because it doesn't cost them anything to be snooty. Not just in France, it's true around the world, and is basic human nature: Why do an exceptional job when doing a standard or substandard job pays the same amount of money?

Not that I have all that much extensive experience with waitstaff in Europe, but the times I have been to London, Berlin, and Paris on vacation I never had a problem with substandard service that I can recall. I'm not saying that all waiters in Europe are great but I wonder if US waiters are significantly better. I've certainly come across my share of bad waiters in the US, tips notwithstanding.

Neo: >>I don't really think it's a matter of how much a person is paid that affects his willingness to work more without extra financial reward.

>>It's also the human trait of wanting to please others (i.e. your bosses in this case

Have never found waitstaff in europe to be "snooty". They do have a tendency to be more reserved than american waitstaff - esp in chain places and less expensive restaurants - where the management instructs them to be faux friendly and smiley/smiley all the time - as if they were the village idiot. (Or singing and clapping for people's birthdays!)

If I'm going out for a nice meal I don't want the waiter to say "I'm Toby and aren;t we having a wonderful day". IMHO this is totally unprofessional. OK in a diner but not in a better restaurant.

And part of the reason many american waitstaff is so informal/"friendly" is that they are trying to drum up a better tip. European waitstaff receive a reasonable wage - so they can afford to be professional - and have time to develop their skills - since they are not mostly college students or actors resting between roles - and have received proper training.

Now - it is possible to get a bad waiter anywhere - either just a permanent grouch - or someone having a bad day. But IMHO they usually at least know what is in the various dishes and can make useful suggestions.

If I go to France, Spain, or Italy and the waiter says to me, "I am Pierre (Alberto or Gianni) and I am your server" I will burn my passport.

None of the above addresses the basic truth: tipping allows immediate financial reward to wait staff for jobs well done, if they get their percentage up front this incentive is eliminated. Y'all can make claims til doomsday about altruism for its own sake, and when you manage to remove your heads from your rear-ends you'll understand the world runs on rewarded and not unrewarded altruism. Namely money.

How many people here are salaried employees, that do not rely on tips or commission?

Do you have a boss?
Is you performance rated?
Are you a lazy dog?

This system does not preclude from one server getting higher pay than another.

Last night we ate at the Barcelona Grill in Brookline, MA.

It was good and reasonably priced.

Our waiter got a $20 tip. He was working with two other staff who shared the tip. They had about five tables, some spending more than we. So the team was bringing in somewhere north of $100 per hour, say $50 for him and $25 for each of the others.

Tapas are service intensive because it is lots of little place coming out of the kitchen at random intervals. Why would $15 per hour sound good?