travelgourmet

As for giving lower income people subsidies for housing: those who believe in the free market for housing are likely to be those who do not believe in free handouts to subsidize rent payments.

Just because one is economically literate does not mean they can't support well-crafted, least-distortive social policy.

doug_stallings

The purpose of this forum is to discuss travel, so AirBnB is certainly an acceptable topic, as would be developments regarding its relative availability and advisability in NYC or other destinations.

But this isn't the place to have a rancorous debate about the relative merits of rent control. That's for another forum (and not on Fodors.com). I would hate to see the moderators delete this forum, so let's get back on topic.

nanabee

One of the problems that I can see with AirB&B is that it allows for a residential, single family zoned area to become a "business-hotel-transient-rental area" and disrupts the intended zoning of an area.

Michael

so AirBnB is certainly an acceptable topic,

But the nature of AirBnB as a topic in this instance is its presumed effect on other forms of housing and other zoning effects that have nothing to do with travel.

nytraveler

I'm sorry I ever started on the whole issue of rent stabilization and NYC housing policy - about which people have many different views. And I don't want to get into further details about some statements here that are inaccurate or ingenuous.

If we stick to the travel issue - the main point is that the City of New York is now taking active steps to locate those people who are renting illegally through Air BnB with the intention of putting a stop to it.

Travelers who are not familiar with the situation need to know about this, since something they rent now may well be off the illegal sublet market by the time they get to NYC. And they need to consider this risk - and follow what is happening - if they elect not to stay in the many thousands of hotels, B&Bs (legal ones) and hostels.

ekscrunchy

Interesting article on a guy renting space in his NYC apartment through AIR BnB:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/27/ny...r.html?hp&_r=0

smetz1

That is an interesting article, ekscrunchy. Guy doesn't seem like much of a criminal to me. I suspect that the push by local politicians to make these illegal is much more related to "campaign donations" from the NYC hotel lobby than their analysis of Airbnb's impact on the local rental market. I mean, think about it, the OP said these units number "in the thousands". That's a drop in the bucket for a city like New York, which has over 3.4 million housing units, of which about 64% are rentals. That's somewhere around 2.2 million rental units in New York. If Airbnb has, let's say, 2,500 housing units registered, that's a little over 1/10 of 1% of the rental market.

There is no way this has a measurable impact on housing supply or affordability. And to criminalize the guy represented in that article, and what he is doing, makes little sense. It's no surprise that Airbnb's "negotiations on city laws" are not going so well - they're very likely out-gunned.

doug_stallings

The article on the AirBnB participant was very interesting, and he's not breaking the law at all. He is the precise kind of person who is allowed to rent out a room on AirBnB. He resides in the apartment and rents out a spare room, and presumably his building allows it. That's the one circumstance where AirBnB is completely and totally legal in NYC.

smetz1

Ah, so because he's not doing it with a vacant apartment, it's legal, correct?

kenav

smetz1 - Yes. Unless it's a co-op. If the owner or resident is in residence it at least cuts down on the people who will be living in your building who are not overseen by anyone and who have much less of a chance of trashing the place.

I suspect that a lot of those who see no problem with AirB&B in NYC don't live in apartment houses and don't have the problem of transients coming and going all the time, living in your building and never knowing who they are. I know I wouldn't like it.

smetz1

kenav - thanks for the clarification. I agree about the impact on the residents of a building in which a unit is, effectively, used as a hotel room. My only point was that impact on housing supply or affordability in the city is most likely negligible. But wouldn't apartment buildings or co-ops already have rules that prevent that type of use?

kenav

smetz1 - Yes, buildings would have rules like that. However, people flaunt rules!! (What a surprise.) It's then hard to get the owners or tenants out. Months and months of legal notices and then possibly bringing them to court and the expense of all that. It's a royal pain in the you know what.

We had an elderly man who was a Vet. He sat in the lobby in his wheelchair for hours a day (although there is a House Rule of not using the Lobby as a loitering place). He had an aid who would actually come out to him with a cup and he would pee in it! Yes! In the middle of the Lobby. But getting him out of the apt. since he was a veteran was near impossible. He's dead now. BTW - He was a mean, nasty guy to boot.

starrs

"That's the one circumstance where AirBnB is completely and totally legal in NYC."

And I hope that remains to be true.

kenav

A bit more: Depending on the co-op or condo or rental apt. rules against using the apt. as an investment, many mortgages and acceptances of tenants/owners by landlords or Co-op Boards, are based on the fact that you must use the apt. as your main residence. If there are those who use it as an investment then they are breaking their mortgage agreements, etc. But, again, the Co-op Board must then go through legal proceedings to stop this. SO, it's not just saying "No, you can't do this."

And so the transient travelers keep coming through much to the consternation of the legal tenants of the building. And, yes, it keeps the apt. off the grid for people who actually want to live in NYC.

nytraveler

Our co-op had an owner who moved to CA but kept her apartment and sublet (not daily or weekly - but short-term and without any review or approval of the tenants for finances and suitability by the Management or the board). As a result we mad the sublet rules more stringent (an owner can sublet for up to one year but then cannot sublet again for another 5 years - and the subletters have to go through a complete financial review by the management company and interviews with the co-ops tenant committee).

In this case the woman refused to follow the rules and the process of getting her evicted was becoming onerous and expensive. So we took the simple route of changing the locks on her apartment as well as the security fobs for the lobby entrance doors when the current subletters moved out. So - her next set of "subletters" could not get into the apartment. At that point she decided to see rather than fight the case in court. (We had notified her this would happen but she ignored all communications from the board and managing agents.)

(Her first set of subletters - for more than 2 years - were fine but then there were two sets of short-term tenants who caused a variety of problems in the building including loud music at all hours, not allowing access for pest control treatments and strewing trash and garbage in public areas - and apparent drug use.)

smetz1

nytraveler, I think kenav's got you beat with the angry, urinating vet, though perhaps not by much.

ekscrunchy

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0...ref=technology

moonwillow

A lot of Air BnB rentals are just for a room for a couple of nights in someone's home while the owners live there too. I don't see interfering with that, but I guess it is different if someone is renting out housing that is government subsidized or something. New York government is too into the residents business, like that law against the size of a soft drink you can buy! I like to think people can make most decisions on their own.

IMDonehere

You do not have life next to a revolving door of guests. Airbnb does not screen it guests for anything but the ability to pay. Nor do the apartment owners. It has nothing to with NYC prying into the lives of others but everything about protecting the lives and the tenet rights of its citizens.