Hello everyone. I am considering moving from the Philadelphia suburbs to Pittsburgh with my wife. As a result of all the negative posts about Pittsburgh, we are thorougly confused. We are an educated, interacial couple(I am black she is white) and have some concerns, especially when the word provincial is thrown around so freely. We are both in our early 30's and consider ourselves partially hip. We enjoy shopping, great food, and meeting open-minded, fun people. The Burgh sounds like it has potential, but we would like some constructive advice on: Places to live 350-500k range, good info on restaurants, how interacial relationships are perceived, or anything that would prove helpful as we make our descision. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, I have lived in Pittsburgh all my life and love it here. I grew up in the eastern suburb and now live in north suburb of Pittsburgh and love it…If you are childless and intend to stay childless for a while I’d say move into the Shady side area. It’s in the city and is a hip place to live. It has great restaurants and little shops, close to down town. I’m not sure of the cost of buying a house there, but I’m sure you can find one in your price range. It might be older and not much in size, and you won't have a yard. But you’ll be in the city and it is a hot spot for hip people, and know you wouldn’t have interracial problems.

If you intend to stay in Pittsburgh and intend on having children, I highly recommend the Northern suburbs of Pittsburgh. I live in the Wexford area, which was just rated as one of the 28th best places to live in the US. It has two wonderful school districts in it. North Allegheny is a very progressive and big school district and Pine-Richland which is a very progressive school district, but is much smaller then NA. Both are Excellent Shcool Dist.
I can only speak for the Pine-Richland area, as that is where I have lived for the past 20 years. You can definitely find a beautiful new home in your price range. There is the Heights of North Park, Treesdale which is a golf course community, and many other developments of up scale homes in that price range. I think it’s a great place to raise a family, I know of other interracial couples and there seems not to be a problem. There are not many African American here in Pine-Richland and that seems not to be a problem. My daughter had many friends at P-R high school that dated African American boys at school and no one thought anything of it. The only thing lacking in the north hills are good restaurants, but there coming slowly. I didn’t want to move here 20 years ago, but my husband had vision, and I’m glad we made our home here.

There is also the South of Pittsburgh, which is nice. They also have good school districts. Traffic can be a nightmare trying to get down town.

Another good thing about Pittsburgh is the STEELERS!!!!!!

I've lived in the Pittsburgh suburbs all my life (49 years). I hate to be a Negative Nellie, but I can't see any great benefit in leaving PHL to move to PIT, like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. If I were moving (and I may well be soon) I'd move anywhere other than another city in Taxylvania.

I see Pittsburgh as a dying city, brought down by greedy politicians and leaders with no foresight. The city is broke, the county is not in much better shape, the taxes keep going up. The road system and traffic stinks.

While I love people of all ages, do you really want to move into a county which is second only in elderly population to Dade County, FL? Seriously. What does that say about potential growth and the taxbase of an area?

If you do move to Pittsburgh, for heaven's sakes do not move into Shadyside or any other City of Pittsburgh neighborhood. The wage tax for city residents is 4% vs 1% in the suburbs and the schools are far below the level of what you would find in the suburbs.

I can't really answer the question about interacial relationships. From my perspective as a white woman, I still see many communities as rather segregated, I don't see Pittsburgh as particularly progressive in that way and while a lot of high school kids date between races, I don't see parents on either side jumping up and down with excitement over it.

Unless you have a job offer that is a once in a lifetime opportunity, I don't see this as any better than the PHL area. And even then, I'd hesitate. I could not, in good conscience, recommend Pittsburgh as a thriving place for a 30something couple to plant roots. I can't wait to take an early retirement and get out of Dodge.

Jasmine, I always thought PA was a relatively low tax state. Isn't the state income tax something like 3%?

You mention a "wage tax." Is that only for Pittsburgh & Philly, or does it apply throughout the state?

State income tax is, I believe 3.07 percent but there are no deductions and it is a tax on gross wages, not adjusted gross income like many states.

The wage tax is levied by individual municipalities and I believe that most local governments charge 1% of gross salary while Pittsburgh (the city itself) charges 4% and I believe though am not sure that Philadelphia does as well. This is only on earnings, not investments or retirement income.

We pay real estate tax to the local municipality, the county we live in, and our individual school system. Schools are locally grouped by municipality, not by county so the school tax varies depending on which small community you live in.

I've read some of those listings that put PA in the middle of the highest-lowest tax states, but honestly, living here --- I see it as very deceptive because of "hidden" things like the fact that we pay income tax on gross earnings vs adjusted gross income.

The state sales tax is 6%, while the tax in some counties (like Allegheny where Pittsburgh is and where I live is 7%), although we don't pay tax on clothing or food.

The three things any real estate person will tell you about Pittsburgh are : Penquins, Pirates, Steelers!!!

If you like Phila, you won't like Pittsburgh. There's just no comparison. It's small-town midwesty in attitude, the downtown area is dead as nobody lives there, and has lousy weather (always cloudy and/or rainy, lot more snow than Phila.)

I live in Phila. I lived in PGH for 3 years (Shadyside), in the mid 80's. My wife grew up in PGH and her family still lives there, so we get back there from time to time (she was thrilled to leave.)

On a positive note, real estate is dirt cheap there (for good reason.) Something in PGH that costs 350-500K would cost 1 million plus, easily, around Phila.

BarryK

I have lived here (Pittsburgh) 37 1/2 yrs of my life, way more than you. Over this past summer, when I have had to walk to my bus stop I can honestly say at least 95% of the time I walked it was so sunny I had to wear a hat, sunglasses and heavy sunscreen this summer. At times I wish there were less sun so I could have taken a break from the preparation. In autumn the sun still comes out frequently. The sun comes out less in late December throughout January but that is the case in most of the NE. Also all through the 1990s in the winter when I use to hike the sun came out many times on weekend that I had to even wear sunglasses in the dead of winter.

By the way nobody gives a flying bleep if there is an interracial couples walking around w/each other, I don't.

My advice to enterlove is to visit Pittsburgh for a week and go to the Oakland, South Side, Bloomfield areas and maybe venture out into the suburbs and then make a decision. To take any negative comments about Pittsburgh seriously on this board is unwise. Obviously you are getting viewpoints from people who have left the place so of course they will not have anything nice to say about it.

" I have had to walk to my bus stop I can honestly say at least 95% of the time I walked it was so sunny I had to wear a hat, sunglasses and heavy sunscreen this summer."

That's a laugh. Pittsburgh is one of the most overcast areas in the US. Any area just south of the Great Lakes is going to get little sun.

Let's get real:

1. Real estate is very cheap, especially in the city. But that's because of the high crime rate and the ungodly city payroll tax that drives everyone into the burbs. But man, $400K will get you one of those beautiful big old houses north of Forbes in Squirrel Hill. Come to think of it, an old Jewish neighborhood like that might be your best bet. As long as they don't think that you moved there from East Liberty. The other option is the university area, as that is where you are likely to find som life in and northeast mentality in a midwest place like Pittsburgh. Unfortunately, the universities are in Oakland, which has very bad crime problems. Squirrel Hill borders in CMU, so again that wlooks like the best bet.

2. If you enjoy great food, forget Pittsgurgh. It's about the worst restaurant city in America. No one ever moves there, so there are few ethnic minorities (except Italian, Polish, etc.) So there are zip decent ethnic restaurants.

3. You mention the word "hip" in Pittsburgh and everyone will think that you are talking about a hip replacement. Allegheny is the old county in America. Old people have old ideas. Draw your own conclusion as to what that might mean to you.

4. But it is an extremely friendly place in general. Really decent people. It doesn't have that snarky big-city cyncism.

5. It is provincial in the sense that Pittsburgers think that the place is heaven and can't understand why anyone would live anywhere else. Peoples' attachment to the city is truly amazing.

Lastly, there are two basic things to know about Pittsburgh. It is not a city so much as a collection of neighborhoods. With the transportation difficult due to hills and the rivers, people there tend to grow up and stay in their own little areas. This is also what people mean when they say that Pittsburgh is provincial.

Second, Pittsburgh never changes. It is essentially the same place now that it was in the 50's and 60's. It is static and againg. Few people move there so there is no new blood.

Personally, I'd take Pittsburgh over Philadelphia any day. I don't much like it Philly. Then again, neither would exactly be in my top 10.

Metall is obviously someone who doesn't live in Pittsburgh, its so bias it shows.

Yes, I should know that the bright light in the sky I see daily in Pittsburgh is the sun (not a UFO) and it comes out often. I've collected about 5 prs of sunglasses so that I do not leave the house with at least one pair because 80% plus of the time this summer the sun has been out basically a vast majority of the day. Oh, what do I know I just live 16 miles west of Pittsburgh.

Also, Pittsburgh has evolved big time since the 60s and 70s. There are no longer steel mills lining the Monongahela but office parks and construction around the waterfront. So all of your statements have been false. The problem with you is that you are a truly miserable person and can't find any positive in your own miserable life.

I had to ruin your drivel with facts, but take a look at some data on cities with the most sunny days. Pittsburgh is near the bottom. E. G.

http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/..._city_desc.php

As far as Pgh changing, it is the same place. A few steel mills have been knocked down, so what? It is still the same provincial place that is basic a bunch of ethnic neighborhoods that keep to themselves. BNo one moves in. Few move out, except to find a job. That why Pittsburgh is thr oldest city in America. That's another fact that you can't get around.

Metellus - I didn't bother responding to Stephanie because her respsone was so absurd. Once she started with the sunscreen and sunglasses walking to the bus, I just laughed.

I agree with you completely.

Knock down-Drag outs over Pittsburgh.

Yah gotta luv it.

STEELERSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

What you're seeing here is that people love or hate Pittsburgh. I happen to love it. I lived there several years, and still live in the region, about an hour north of the city. I've also lived in Montana, Wyoming, and Oregon, and spent plenty of time in other places. I think I’ve got a fairly healthy, if not precisely objective, perspective.

Regarding the race stuff, the truth is that it really depends upon whom you run into, more than where. In the circles I frequent--mostly artists, some musicians, small-time entrepreneurs, quasi-bohemians and academics--nobody is going to give it a second thought. In some of the rougher neighborhoods that, like in Philly, still tend to be segregated (poor whites in one place, poor blacks in another) you can expect people to respond according to their level of education and sophistication. Like any city, Pittsburgh has its share of bad apples and they come in every color.

Pittsburgh is much smaller than Philadelphia, and the selection of restaurants is proportional...and yes, there is plenty of Italian, more polish than any city needs, but also Greek, Indian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Middle Eastern. Most of it good. Some of it incredible and, if you like sandwiches, well...wait until you see some of the monsters available.

When people talk about lack of culture in Pittsburgh, what they really mean is that there is a very limited "club scene" for that 18-24 ecstasy techno-teenybopper crowd. I had grown out of that by the time I moved into the city, and I didn't miss it.

If that is your thing--and it doesn't sound like it is--well, it is not happening here. Not pervasively, at least.

On the other hand, the arts are dynamic here. There is always a play to see, a couple of wild avant-garde dance companies, beaucoup museums and galleries, and a surprising number of prominent, non-pop musicians playing in a variety of predominantly intimate venues.

For houses...whether you want suburban or city, condo or Victorian, you're going to be pleasanty surprised by what you find in the listings.

I could go on, but the best thing you can do is get yourself some books from the library…the Pittsburgh Insider’s Guide, for example, then come up here for a few days or longer and check things out for yourself. Don’t take the word of a Pittsburgh cheerleader like me or the sunscreen lady, and please don’t take the bitter words of a few cynics, either. Any questions…my email is on the post. Feel free to use it.

" Greek, Indian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Middle Eastern. Most of it good."

This is the most absurd post yet. Pittsburgh has no decent Asian restaurants. Not one. More amazingly, even the Italian isn't very good. Oh yeah, and try to find decent deli. The city has never recovered from the day that Weinstein's closed down way back when.

Middle Eastern, however, is an exception. For some unexplained reason, Pgh has always had several very good Mid East restaurants. Go figure.

Now, let me get this straight. I like Pittsburgh, but not for what it isn't. It is a nice friendly city with a small town feel and where nothing much ever changes. It's a bit of a time warp, a place of the 60's. That's nice. But there is a downside to this. It isn't very cosmopolitan with all that goes with it, losts of immigrants with lots of restaurants and other sorts of cultural stuff. If is very midwestern and if you are from the Northeast, you may find the people a of an old bit home-church crowd. It is a very old place, because there isn't much economic opportunity, so young people tend to move out. So it goes. I'd move back if there were a good reason, but I wouldn't look for a reason.

To Oakleafmold:

Can I ask you about the area you live in? I have cousins who are considering moving to Lawrence County, which I think is also about an hour north of Pittsburgh. I was wondering if you could tell me about the area. They don't seem to know much, but mentioned the New Castle vicinity. Thanks.

BTW, interesting screen name!

Judy:

New Castle is very close to the very scenic Moraine State Park. This park has a substantial sized Lake Arthur which has many sailboats on it in the summer and it has 2 swimming areas but the park is open year around (I've been there in February for hiking and saw ice fishing on the lake). There are also 2 or 3 trails in the park also. Not far from this park and New Castle is the Grove City Outlets which is a very big pleasant area to walk around at and shop. Nearby Mercer, PA might have some historical sights or buildings. Not much around here actually - farm country mostly. Just over the border in Ohio is an Amish city where your friend can go to shop for that kind of merchandise. About an hour north of New Castle is Erie, PA. There is an indoor swimming park in Erie along with a really nice picturesque park called Presque Isle.

Thanks, Stephanie. I'll pass this on to my cousin & his wife, and thanks on their behalf.

I live in Law County....the new hotspot is Shenango Twp.....w/the new communties starting in the $200's....Castle Realty handles most....castle-realty.com----724-654-5589---Cambridge at Hidden Lakes-Jason's Woods,etc--ask any ? and I'll try to answer..we are looking in the $160's and are having a dificult time....Neshanock twp has homes and New Wilminton area......New Castle is a depressed area

I dont think you will like it.

About 5 years ago I helped a dear friend move from NJ to an apartment complex in the outskirts of Pittsburgh. She moved there for her career...for her dream job.

When we arrived at her apartment there were all these flyers in her mailbox by locals running for office, apparently there was an election on the horizon.

I was stunned to see that more than one of these flyers contained campaign promises such as "keep our schools white" and "keep dangerous minorities away from out children" it also talked that way about various religious groups.

Coming from the happy melting pot of NJ this was shocking & upsetting and I was actually afraid to show them to my friend, who is gay.

In the end, she lasted less than 2 years and came back to NJ.