BonnieN

Hi all,

Everyone makes my travels so extraordilnary from generous advice on these boards, I would like to ask a question.

My daughter and friend are moving to NYC this summer. They would like a one-bedroom where a temporary walk can be erected to make a 2 bedroom conversion. Price looking in $2,000 - $3,000 range and they want to be in Murray Hill with a doorman buildling. Do you need to use a broker or can you call the building directly? Tip a doorman?

Thanks!
Bonnie

mclaurie

Someone else was looking for an appt. and I found a website that lists a lot of management cos. of rental buildings where you might be able to contact them directly and find an apt. without using a broker. Here's the URL

http://www.newyorklivingmag.com/dire...ng_guide.shtml

Here's the whole thread with some other info
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...1&tid=34547538

But keep in mind there are also coops and condos that can be rented from owners (although I can't imagine they'd let you put up a wall.) I think you have to use more than one method to look for an apt. That thread has a link for an article on ways to find an apt w/o a broker's fee.

You should also post on Craigslist.com for what they're looking for. I think they need to be flexible about location although Murray Hill now has lots of highrises.

michelleNYC

You can also search on nytimes.com in the real estate section -- they give you the option of clicking "no fee".

KikiLee

Check www.craigslist.org for no fee apartments. (Some will be through brokers still.) Their price range sounds reasonable for the neighborhood. Highrises without a ton of character, filled with young professionals, but a fun, safe neighborhood for newcomers to the city.

nytraveler

I think you're going to have a ot of trouble getting a landlord to allow you to do this conversion - based on NYC laws - every room must have a window - and depending on the layout this may be an issue.

Also, the cost for making the change - and then unmaking it when they leave the apartment might be quite high. A sofa bed in the LR might be a more practical solution.

KikiLee

I have to respectfully disagree with nytraveler - nearly everyone I know has a "fake wall" in their apt. (We're talking high rises filled with young professionals, not brownstones or anything). Most buildings will dictate which wall company you must use, and the price is generally $1000-1200. Your daughter and friend should look for places advertised as "1BR/2BR converted" or simply "2 BR" (some will have been converted already - our apt was - much easier all around). Do not look for a 1 BR and assume that you will be able to convert it. (Believe me, if there is any possibility of squeezing out another bedroom from the space, that 1 BR will be advertised as a 2BR.)

Word of warning: If your daughter and friend take over a lease (as is often the case with sites like craigslist) - make sure they are clear with the management company must be done when they are set to leave the apt - must the wall come down? Must things be painted? etc.

Also, be aware that, unless their annual salaries are more than 60-80 (depending on the building) times the monthly rent, you and the other girl's parents will need to sign as guarantors (sometimes you will need to even then). Ideally, at least one guarantor should live in the tri-state area. Be prepared with bank statements, tax returns, etc. (Most companies will allow you to fax them separately, if you do not wish your daughter to know your financial details.)

Keep in mind that NY apts move quickly - my roommates and I literally raced another group to the ATM to be the first to get the $500 deposit needed for our current apt. Your daughter and friend will have better luck if they come prepared to all showings with a bank statement, letter of employment, references, etc.

Finding an apt in NY requires a tremendous amount of energy. A broker will make this easier, but keep in mind most charge 15% of a year's rent, up front. (this number came down after 9/11, but has been edging back up as we enter this supposed economic recovery.) You don't say where your daughter and friend live now - is it possible for them to come into the city and do the hunt in person? If not, a broker may be worth the expense.

I'd be happy to answer any further questions...

nytraveler

I think a really good starting place in the NYTimes real estate section - not in terms of getting the apartment - but of getting a fee for the NYC real estate market. Many apartemtns isted actually show floor plans - and they can get a good feel for what size apartment, room arrangement (yes many dividieable ones are already twos - that's why I said they may have trouble finding this), type of building and neighborhood they can get for what rent.

Agree that they will need full employment/financial info with them - and probably at least one set of parents will have to co-sign for them if they have starter jobs (anything under $40/45).

KikiLee

How old are these two? I have been operating under the assumption that they are young-ish and poor-ish (like myself - hey, how's that for narcissism?) but perhaps that is incorrect. If it is correct, however, then I think nytraveler's advice to check out the NY Times to get a feel for the area is excellent, however I would also check craiglist and the Village Voice for slightly less high-end properties.

Also, co-signers may be required even for non "starter" jobs - I believe my building requires one if anyone on the lease makes less than 60X or 80X (can't remember offhand) rent as a BASE. (up to $96K) Just be prepared.

Oh, and tell them welcome to NY!

Vittrad

sigh... this is why I've been looking longingly at New York from afar for years.

KikiLee

Oh, but it's worth it...

michelleNYC

In my opinion (and that of others), Craigslist is VERY unreliable. I strongly encourage you to check out the NY Times and choose the "no fee" search option. Also, do remember the 60-80 times rent to salary rule. For the higher-end, white glove buildings, it will most likely be 80 times therefore in order to secure a $2500/month apartment, they'll need to bring in approximatelhy $200K or they'll need a co-signer. If you want to bypass that, look for walk-ups or small, brownstone-type buildings (meaning no doorman).

NYJets

Is the 60-80 rule new? When I first moved to NYC it was 40X, and when I moved into our current apartment it was 50X and I thought that was quite a bit. 80X is ridiculous, I can't imagine a rental building turning down someone who makes $150,000 who wants a $2500 apt, particularly with buildings having trouble maintaining occupancy levels. I know my building is hurting. My rent has decreased each of the last 3 years.

Vittrad

Sheesh, and all my landlord wanted one months security and to "look me over", meaning have a drink with me at the pub she owns to make sure she thought that I was okay.

BonnieN

thanks for all your advice. Does anyone happen to know a reliable broker who works in the Murray Hill area? the girls are just out of college, but have jobs at the top end of the pay scale for this year, fortuntely and the parents can co-sign if needed.

michelleNYC

If you want to use a broker, go to www.corcoran.com and click on the map for the Murray Hill area. See if you can pick out some apartments that you like and give them a call. I don't know any brokers that specialize in Murray Hill, only Tribeca and Upper West Side. When we were looking to rent last year before we bought our house, a couple of the new buildings on 6th Avenue in the 20s *required* 80 times rent as did a couple of rental buildings downtown by BPC and Tribeca.

michelleNYC

Additional brokers that could help are douglas elliman (elliman.com) and Halstead (haltead.com). Set forth below is an example of a Murray Hill apartment in your price range...

http://www.corcoran.com/property/lis...stingID=783464

Here is one from Halstead: http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1029414

It seems that in your price range, you're looking at a pretty small one bedroom.

Elizabeth

They sound to me as if they know what they are doing. Murray Hill is an excellent neighborhood to focus on, it's "nice" but lower-priced than the rest of the (many) nice neighborhoods.
My impression is that the Upper East Side, esp. east of Lexington or 3rd Ave, is also relatively affordable.

If they have the time and inclination I would say it's not a bad idea to take a walk around the neighborhood and ask doormen if they know anything. They do.

Many many rentals in Manhattan are actually co-op sublets and doormen definitely know about these, and will give people phone numbers of owners or brokers the owners have engaged.

I also think Craigslist is worth a look.
As a landlord (of one apartment) I found a tenant there. I also hear however that it's hit and miss as to whether advertisers bother to get back to you - I imagine it's best to check it hourly and pounce.

PS usually the daytime doorman knows the most about what's going on in the building. Like before 4 pm. The senior guy or captian is usually on at that time.

michelleNYC

Excellent suggestion. If the building has a concierge, they are usually "in the know" as well.

nytraveler

One of the things to remember is that doorman buidlings are not necessarily a benefit. For a while I lived in one with a roommate - and the buidling was so huge the doorman never knew who was coming and going. And a troup of ladies of the evening set up down the hall from us - with their customers knocking on our door at all hours of the night. And it took four months to get rid of them.

Nor are brownstones the only other choice. What gives you the most for you money are the middle class prewar elevator buildings - typcially 6-8 stories, no doorman - but nice large apartments. Most have been converted to co-ops - but the ones that haven;t been can be a great value since they often have larger rooms than newer buidlings (except for the true luxury buildings - which are completely out of your price range).

I encourage them to do as much research as possible before coming to the city - it will make the process much easier.

KikiLee

For just-out-of-college age girls, check out www.ogdencapproperties.com. They own two buildings in Murray Hill, as well as Normandie (Dormandie) Court on the UES. They are basic doorman buildings, and are very popular with the just graduated set. (think college dorms with disposable incomes.) The apartments are not luxe but are perfectly fine. The website lists prices higher than what they can afford, but as many of my friends have lived in their properties at one time or another and not paid nearly that, I am guessing they allow conversions. Try calling.

NYJets, I am not sure if the rule is new or not (I think our first apt required 40X, but our current one required either 60 or 80), but I think it tends to be enforced more in buildings that have primarily young people without a long employment history. Basically, it all but guarantees that parents will have to co-sign.