Hi! My husband and I are returning to Maui for a belated 10th wedding anniverary/family trip. Our first trip was spent at the Kaanapali Shores in May 2003. I liked the KS a lot. My only complaint is that the condo decor was outdated; perhaps that's why it was less expensive than the other condos. Anyway, we'll be in Maui late April/early May 2006 when our twins will be 23 months old. I have traveled with them to Florida twice and Puerto Rico once from Chicago and they've done very well.

We redeemed airline miles for two first class tickets from Chicago to Maui. Both legs will be nonstop. HAS ANYONE ELSE TRAVELED WITH TODDLERS ON LAPS IN FIRST CLASS? I PRESUME IT'S BETTER THAN DOING SO IN COACH?

IF YOU HAVE PERSONALLY TRAVELED WITH TODDLERS TO MAUI AND STAYED AT CONDOS, CAN YOU PLEASE SUGGEST TODDLER FRIENDLY PROPERTIES IN THE KAANAPALI/LAHAINA OR WAILEA AREAS? We're on a limited budget (hubby is in middle of residency and I became a SAHM).
Though we've never been there, the Wailea area is probably too expensive for us. Also, the hubby and twins are very fair-skinned redheads. I've heard Wailea is much hotter than Kaanapali? Also, what other activities are there for them since the pediatrician has already warned us profusely to keep them slathered in sunblock and keep beach time to a minimum?

Though I know you mean well if you suggest we leave them behind, it's not an option for us since we don't have anyone to leave them with in the first place even if we wanted to do so. But again, thank you. The twins are on a strict naptime/bedtime schedule so we don't plan to go out at night much--early dinners were fine by us even before parenthood.

We referred to the Maui Revealed blue book religiously during our first trip so I'm trying to get information from there as well. Thank you in advance for your helpful comments. Regards, SuperMom by day, exhausted hero by night.

Please do not try and travel that far with a lap child.

Please do not fly at all with an unrestrained child.

Please do not subject the rest of first class to two lap children that are active toddlers. It isn't fair to them or to the rest of the passengers.

Unrestrained children on flights are dangerous to the children.

Even though the FAA doesn't require children under two to be restrained, they require the coffee pot to be restrained.

There is no professional association out there (FAs, Pilots, Mechanics, Pediatricians, AMAs) that doesn't professionally lobby the FAA to change the unrestrained lap child law. They all strongly urge you to purchase a seat for your child and to use an approved seat.

Good luck.

I second everything GoT wrote. Do not even think of bringing the kids to first class. I understand you are a "super mom". But this is poor judgment.

If the twins are on a strict schedule, wait a couple years to take the vacation, or go somewhere closer.

I suggest you look at Puamana condos just outside of Lahaina. They are very family friendly. These are one level or two level buildings, in a gated community. Lots of kids playing, biking, walking in the area. Three pools, one adult only, two kid friendly.

My husband and I can finally use our miles and fly first class. Of course it took a long time to accummulate those miles. The reason we can sit in first class is because our sons, who will accompany us, can sit quite comfortably and for many years, quietly, in coach. I wouldn't dream of taking lap children into first class and I would not be happy to be seated next to them when they became restless. Your two first class award seats equal the miles of 4 coach. Something to think about considering the advice you have received so far.

exhausted hero..

1st of all..yahooo..hawaii with the babies is so fun!
We are working on having friends or family with us next year, so we can do an adult activity or 2, but the family friendly stuff is so sweet.

i hatehatehate to jump on this bandwagon as i have gotten some very hurtful replies to innocent questions online before. GoT gives some decent points..in a less than delicate way, probably because she has had to deal with this issue personally, i'd guess.

Having traveled 2x to hawaii (from CA, a much shorter flight) with our 2 y/o, i can say from experience, that when we took her as a lap child at 1 y/o it was truly barely tolerable for us on the full flights and only marginally so on the less full flights. As for the other folks on the plane, yeh, i felt bad..but i must admit, i felt worse for myself!
I know..selfish, what can ya do!

Our babe is also a very good traveler! This year we took a few flights. One to hawaii and 2 to the east coast. On these flights we coughed it up and bought her the seat..and man, can i tell you, what a difference. We brought her car seat on to the plane and snapped her in. She seemed comforted by it both in the plane and also in the rental car.
We arrived both at our destination and back home in much better frames of mind(so, i'd imagine, did our fellow travelers). The best point i see here is the last one. I would definately look into getting 4 award coach seats in lieu of the 2 1st class ones. It won't be worth it, most likely, due to the fact that 2y/os are 2y/os no matter where ya put 'em and the folks who are really shelling it out for the peaceful atmosphere up front, might make it painful for you all, even if the kids don't. ya know? Note tone of GoT post for a mild mannered example.

Sorry, I tried to be as diplomatic as possible!

I was on a flight a couple of years ago where 2 moms with lap kids wanted to sit together in one row while the dads sat in the newt row. The FA came by and said only 1 lap child per row because there is only 1 extra oxygen mask that drops down. So I don't know if you can do 2 lap kids in a row in first class.

My husband and I also have twins that we have taken to England numerous times (hubby is English), the first time being when they were eight months old. I would highly advise you NOT to take your babies that far on your lap. I agree the above posts that is not fair to your fellow passengers in first class to have two wiggly toddlers up front. Having flown in business class, I would have been peeved if I had paid all that $$ to get on board and discover I had 9 hrs to sit next to two toddlers. No offense to your children. I would check into having the miles redeposited into your account and getting 4 tickets in coach.

You might consider saving money on a condo with slightly older decor, and buying the tics for the kids, OR flying coach and buying tics for the kids. It would be NOT a good idea to try to lap-carry them that far for so long.

Please see the following:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...1&tid=34537780

The portion in that thread which I find particularly poignant was written by a flight attendant, which GoTravel quoted:

"Let me offer this graphic thought: Parents, if the plane DOES crash and your baby is on your lap, the baby becomes a human air bag for you. Your baby will die instantly. I had a passenger tearfully tell me that this happened to her. She is now crippled, and her only child (who would be 9 now) was killed."

I believe that children in planes belong in their own seats. You wouldn't be allowed to hold them on your lap in a moving car, and for good reason, let alone on a VERY long flight.

And I'm not going to go into the disturbance they will definitely cause on a 9 hour flight. Wait til they're a few tears older to go and then they can appreciate the trip as much as you do, let alone cause this much trouble.

That's years older, not tears...though considering how well they'll do on the flight, it might be appropriate.

We traveled to Maui this past summer PAYING, not redeeming, full first class fare for 2 adults and 2 teenagers. If we were seated next to parents who had twins under the age of two on their laps with no seats, we'd be very, very unhappy and disappointed that someone would subject us, who paid full fare, to what would be an extremely narcissistic situation of the parents of the twins. Plus, it's not even safe for your kids to travel that way. Think of the safety of your kids and what you're subjecting others to - you're possibly placing your own kids at harm, along with others and ruining an expensive flight. Oh, how I pity those flying with you and the poor flight attendants who are going to scowl at you like you wouldn't believe.

When my husband was in his residency, we traveled with our kids but we would never dream of inflicting them on other people the way you're plannning to and would never place them in a harmful situation. Please change your plans.

Hi Supermom,

I've made the trip to Hawaii many, many times in First class/business class.
Take your babes and feel happy for the extra room and service the front cabins afford. The babes will be treated well by the flight crew. Until the airlines change the rules you are doing nothing illegal.The odds of a disaster scenario are very remote.

Because their seats are so constricting the people with kids in coach end up standing in the aisles by the bathrooms chatting and trying to stay out of the way of the flight attendants. There are always lots of babies on the Hawaii flights for some reason. Last romantic trip for Mums and Dads before the babes are more mobile?

As for Maui. I love Wailea. Kaanapali and Lahaina are great but I love the beach at the Renaissance in Wailea...(Ulua?)very protected cove. The Grand Wailea pool is great for toddlers and I think there is an Outrigger in that stretch too. I can't imagine that it will be hotter on that side at that time of year at all. I know it might be a pricier near Wailea but maybe you can find a deal at that time of year. It is before the summer madness sets in. There is much less shopping and food near Wailea though.

If you want convenience I'd stay with Kaanapali.

I'd repost and just ask for condo advice. Don't mention the "baby" word.

: )

kakalena

Supermom,

One more thing...I noticed that the flight is nine hours from Chicago. Could you break it up at LA or SF? That's a long flight even for an adult. The long flights from the Mid-West (and even longer from Atlanta!) were always a dissatisfier for friends and family who visited us.

kakalena

kakalena, no one is suggesting twinssupermom is doing anything illegal, just dangerous.

Sure the odds are remote but do you really want to play those odds with your child? Every minute that plane is in the air, chances are greater something will happen.

That flight isn't a 20 minute puddle jumper, it is an almost 10 hour long flight not taking in account the toddlers will be at the airport for at least an hour beforehand.

Lap children get hurt in cases of deceleration and turbulence. Thanks to Newton's Laws of Gravity, if the plane hits an air pocket and drops, you simply cannot hang on to your child. Emergency deceleration? If you are holding your child, the child turns into an air bag.

Supermom:

I, too, am a mom of twins and have traveled fairly extensively with them. They JUST turned two and their last trip (along with their just turned three year old brother) was a flight from MSP to NYC over T-day. We also take them pretty much everywhere we go and look for condos, etc. to make it easier on everyone. Our next trip is the Caymans in February staying at the Reef. This is my advice....

Having flown from chicago to maui with one 5 month old in 1st class, I wouldn't do it again. Certainly not with toddler twins. We, too, thought the extra space and comfort of 1st class would be a better trade-off than three coach seats and we were wrong. Our little guy was a total star and didn't cry once the entire flight to Hawaii. However, we were wrecks. Everytime he made any type of little gurgle or coo we got all tense and concerned we were bothering the others in the cabin. It was so stressful. In the end, we spent a ton of time back in coach holding him there as we worried he might be bothering others in first. And this is a guy who did not cry. It just wasn't worth it. Also, you get a lot of nasty looks from others in 1st when you come on with a baby. This might not bother you, but as I was already worried about the impact he might have on other's flight experience, it just made for a more uncomfortable situation for me (and my husband). Also, you can't have two lap babies in the same row due to the oxygen issue so you and your husband will, at best, be across the aisle from each other meaning you will have others sitting next to you and your 23 month old for nine hours. Will they really, really be that good for that long to risk it?

When we flew with all three guys to Mexico last winter (one 25 month old and two 13 month olds) we got everyone seats in coach. Five seats in coach isn't cheap but it really worked out well. The guys all had their car seats and were strapped in and safe. They kinda went into their "car seat zone" and didn't fuss or anything. We were much less stressed about their behavior. It was just easier for us (although shlepping three car seats, three toddlers and two strollers through an airport is a nightmare).

While in Maui we stayed in Wailea at the Kea Lani. Great property with nice big suites with a fridge and microwave. Worked great with kids. The place is very kid friendly with toddler pools, a kid-centered gift shop and a gourmet food store on the grounds where you can grab a quick breakfast or lunch to bring back to the room. We did everything with our guy -- whale watching, snorkeling (hired a babysitter through the hotel and brought her and the baby on the snorkel boat with us -- had to buy her a seat but well worth it), beach walks, everything. Didn't do the road to Hana as it seemed a bit of a pain with a baby but everything else. It was a great trip.

Sorry if this isn't the advice you wanted to hear. I also HATE, HATE, HATE it when people tell me to "leave them home with grandma" -- that isn't the life we are going to live with them. It is possible to go to Maui with twins and have a great family vacation. Just don't fly in 1st -- not worth the stress.

Good luck.

Go, You already know this if you travel a lot.

"Your chances of being involved in an aircraft accident are about 1 in 11 million. On the other hand, your chances of being killed in an automobile accident are 1 in 5000. Statistically, you are at far greater risk driving to the airport than getting on an airplane."

Very kind of you to be concerned for the well-being of Supermom's kids.

Many people here are responding in a not very kind way to the proposition of twin toddlers in First Class. : ) And they aren't even going to be on this plane! Where do the posters think wealthy kids travel? In coach? Babies have a right to First Class too!

First Class isn't Shangri-La for Pete's sake it's just a bigger seat in the aluminum can going the same place as the back of the can. It's not the province of an Aristocratic society although some people wish it were.

kakalena

taitai

Why do you think that it is okay for your baby to gurgle and coo in coach but not in First?

You obviously had the right to be in the seat and so who exactly were you concerned about? Believe me there are dozens of people from all walks of life with First Class upgrades.

I think we'd all agree they aren't better than people in Coach so wasn't your issue a personal one? Supermom may not look at it in the same way.

kakalena

"""Your chances of being involved in an aircraft accident are about 1 in 11 million. On the other hand, your chances of being killed in an automobile accident are 1 in 5000. Statistically, you are at far greater risk driving to the airport than getting on an airplane."""

This the FAAs argument however, no one has ever proven that it is safer to fly than to drive. You are assuming that all risks are equal which is not the case. Professional organizations, such as the ones I've listed above are trying heroically to debunk this stupid myth that the FAA insists upon hanging on to.

Also, we aren't talking worst case scenario, an airplane crash, we are talking about deceleration and turbulence.

You must compare apples to apples.