Chris

George, I hope your criteria weren't in order of preference -- cost first??? Cheapest is best? I don't think so. There are some very expensive schools and some very inexpensive schools, and sometimes there's a relationship between quality and cost and sometimes there isn't. And you obviously are thinking of college as an extension of high school, where kids are passive vessels depending on others to fill them full of whatever it is they need. I agree that there should be help for those in trouble, but part of the point of college is to get kids ready to be out on their own and self-sufficient.

The main point of college is to learn. Scholarship and educational quality is therefore important, and I don't see that anywhere on your list, although I expect you assume that teachertudent ratio is one measure -- and I agree with that, but there's more to it.

I don't disagree with your other criteria but where on earth did you get your stats re:freshman year? Was a distinction made between dropping out and flunking out? Did it include 2-yr. colleges? I think that 50% is way, way too high. At the 8 different universities and colleges I have been associated with, one way or another, I don't the the one with the highest drop-out rate was more than maybe 15%, and the others were generally lower, some by quite a bit. Let's not scare these applicants more than they already are!

George

Chris-In answer to your questions about cost, I was referring to what the parents/student can afford with money saved, scholarships etc. Why look at a Cadillac when you can only afford a Chevy? Nothing wrong with Chevies they are good dependable cars just as there is nothing wrong with some of the smaller or state schools that are less expensive than say a Harvard, Notre Dame etc.

And to the question of 50% flunking out, it was in my local newspaper and no I am not making it up! Too many kids are sent to school and they wind up partying, skipping classses and just not cutting it. College is a lot tougher than high school and some kids are just not college material. I think parents need to know this before they send junior off to school and kids need to know how tough college is if they want to succeed. Why sugar coat it?

peg

Bloomington Indiana -- Lived in B'ton for three years and it will always hold a very special place in my heart. A beautiful place, quite laid back, small town (60,000 maybe...).

Madison WI -- Lived here for 10 years. It has the advantage of also being state capitol, so you get both academic environment and "real" life... several lakes in city limits, best farmer's market in the state (maybe the region), active arts and music. Incredibly beautiful campus.

I'd move back to either in a heartbeat if I had a good incentive/reason to...

Chris

George, I respectfully ask if you believe everything you read in the paper?!! Seriously, I suspect the statistic you came across was one of the following: that 53% of low-income freshman do not get their degrees within 4 years or that about 55% of freshmen who enter as part-time students do not get their degree within 4 years. (Source: as you might expect, Chronicle of Higher Ed.)

But four years after freshmen entered college in 1989, only a third (approx.) were not still enrolled -- and that includes jr. colleges, etc. -- so it's pretty much impossible that 50% of college freshmen drop out, esp. of the kind of schools that have been mentioned in this column. It's true that many students take longer than 4 years to get their bachelor's degree, but that's not the same as dropping out, by a long shot. Colleges simply couldn't survive if they lost half their entering class every year.

Re: cost -- an education is not a car, it is an investment. Too often I have seen kids who could have gone to a very good school -- one where having a degree from there would really mean something in pursuing a career -- choose instead to go to an "affordable" place because they wanted to graduate in the black with change in their pocket. I don't mean everyone needs to go to Harvard, or that going to Harvard will guarantee a $100K job right away; but putting cost above long-term value when it comes to education is terribly short-sighted and sells the student very short.

dan woodlief

If he doesn't want the college to dominate, I would think he should look into very small schools or an urban environment. However, I will agree that Madison, WI provides this atmosphere, although I am not sure that would be the case so much for someone living on campus. Chapel Hill, NC is very much a college-dominated town, but it is very close to Durham and Raleigh, two non-college dominated cities (Durham is so close they are practically on top of one another and Raleigh is 20-25 minutes away by car). I didn't think of this before, but if your son is into sports, there is now a pro hockey team in the Chapel Hill area (about 15-20 minutes away on the highway to Raleigh), Chapel Hill has one of the most beautiful football stadiums anywhere (crowds are better in Madison though), the best basketball program in the country (please no arguments from Duke or Kentucky people), and has one of the top college athletic programs overall year after year. I am not going to say your son will find an Ivy League environment (student-wise) in either Chapel Hill or Madison, but the quality of the education is hard to beat at either school.

TJ

George, I like your voice of wisdom. You ask some great questions. Everyone else is just plugging their alma mater. If there are a million colleges, there will be a million opinions. Duh.

Q

Chris- You missed Georges point entirely. People like you drive me crazy because you think you know everything and are so full of yourselves you can't see the forest for the trees.

Jimmy

Chris is another liberal in education who twists the facts around to suit her purposes. Who cares what the facts are when we get manipulate them to our benefit! Cost vs. investment. Give me a break! Some parents cannot afford the high price of education and the cost of tuition is rising faster than inflation for crying out loud. You are just another overpaid mouthpiece for the goughing institues of higher learning in this country!

chris

Neither Q nor Jimmy has any idea what my politics are, and I didn't certainly post what I did for political reasons. When it comes to education, I'm a raving traditionalist really tired of worrying more about "self-esteem" than actually mastering knowledge or a skill. But I have worked with college applicants now for over 20 years and am increasingly upset at how panicky and misinformed they can be, more so every year. I originally responded to George's blanket and unfounded assertion that 50% of freshmen drop out because I knew it was both scary and wrong.

Education is very expensive, any way you look at it. But as to the cost of tuition, I happen to agree that there are colleges who charge top dollar simply "because they can" and because they're afraid if they don't, it'll lower their status. That kind of thinking is precisely the same as treating a degree as a product in a box to be purchased, instead of training and investment in the future. Cars depreciate; training should get more valuable as time goes on.

Phil

Aww Chris, why don't you actually do some work instead of posting your inane tripe on this forum. Who really cares what your views of education are on a travel forum anyway.

Bobcat

Back to the original question:

Another vote for Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. One of the top Journalism schools in the country, top business school, beautiful campus in SE Ohio's rolling hocking hills, nice town, good student to teacher ratio, affordable, dorms now have one pc wired to the internet. Good sports teams, especially basketball and the football team just beat a good Minnesota team, great intramural sports program with a new recreation and fitness center. Great school!

Pam

I know it's a bit far from home but as a recent graduate of the University of Georgia - I can tell you Athens, GA is the greatest college town in the US! The campus runs right into the bustling downtown area. It's fabulous and I'd stay in college forever if I could.

John

I'd like to chime in on the "investment" in a college education. It has been said above that cars depreciate but training becomes more valuable as time goes on. I would say that your college education investment depreciates because as time goes on, people in the business world care much less about where you went to school than what you have been doing in the working world. A name school (with expensive tuition) gets your foot in the door when you have no experience. After a few years it adds little value. So if you can get just as good education at a more reasonable price, go for the reasonable price. The only exceptions I would make to this is if you really want to get into a specialized field (brain surgery, film school) where the school you came from is of utmost importance in getting your next level of education.

Yalie

I have to chime in on the education as investment issue. For some schools, it really is true, and is relevant even after your first job. My friends from Yale and similar schools who are pursuing non-academic careers have an average income of several hundred thousand dollars a year, with the top being a couple of million a year. We are in our late 20s and early thirties. And it's the result of the education, not family background - these are people from blue collar families who had to borrow every cent.

So what that means, is some schools really will pay you back. People above have a point, however. THe good schools don't cost any more than any other private school - Yale costs the same as the University of Miami (to choose a random example).

pks

Williamstown, Massachusetts

Eileen

Charlottesville, Virginia, home of University of Virginia. Lived there for 2 1/2 years -- beautiful!

Kathryn

My husband teaches at Indiana University in Bloomington and we love the area--wouldn't want to leave (and we're originally from California.) I also like Madison, Wisconsin (the "Berkeley of the Midwest.")

However, my personal collegiate loyalty still goes to Berkeley (undergrad) and UCLA (grad)--both great schools.

Amy

Charlottesville, VA - University of Virginia. Wonderful school, beautiful surroundings, lots of things to do: nature, culture, etc.

Elise

Ok, not that you don't already have enough responses , but I had to jump in. The first that comes to mind is my alma mater, Miami University (in Ohio). Gorgeous campus -- red brick buildings, lots of trees (beautiful in autumn), had a wonderful overall experience there. Also, it's a great school academically -- the business school is highly respected. There are definitely partiers, but the majority of students I encountered were fairly serious about their studies. Oxford, Ohio, is a very small town -- there's not a ton to do there. However, the campus is within relatively short driving distance of Cincinnati, so one can have the small town and city experience. Another school that comes to mind, already mentioned multiple times, is Indiana University. Gorgeous campus. I suppose it all depends what your son's priorities are. As someone else already mentioned, there are differing opinions as to what a "full" college experience is.

JoAnn

Ithaca N.Y. is where my son spent 4 years (at Ithaca College) - Cornell Univ. is also there. He loved it so much he stayed on over 2 summers working at the school.