So sorry, m'dear. Not a geographic but a chronological failing..... but you are so gracious about pointing that out -- as was to be expected. A gardenia to you too.

amatters,

Please try to find a copy of "A Southern Belle Primer" by Marilyn Schwartz. It's funny funny, and has a lot of truth in it!

The Christmas after it was published several years ago, I received three copies as gifts!

Some of the telltale signs of a Southern Belle listed in the book are:

She calls the refrigerator the icebox.

She drinks iced tea in the middle of a blizzard.

She would rather walk down Fifth Avenue naked than wear white shoes before Easter or after Labor Day.

She has a deviled egg plate.

She doesn't have a couch, she has a sofa.

Byrd

Reminds me of that great short story "Daisy Miller" by Henry James. In the story, Daisy is a rich but provincial American visiting Europe (France, maybe?). She was gregarious and (ohmigosh) non-punctual. The other tourists were Brits who found Miller demoralizing. She had the gaul to hang out with (gasp) an Italian. This they found offensive. And her lack of catering to their concerns drove them wild.

So I'd say alot, and nothing, has changed in the 100 years or so since the story was written. Americans are still a curious lot.

the whol polite thing is goin gto be hard for me, not that i am not polite, but that i have a tendency to be kinda loud and speak whats on my mind (often with out thinking of course) I am the northener who dosent like things to be sugar coated.

Tandoori girl -- forgive me for chuckling a little at a great unintended pun! I think you meant that Daisy Miller had the "gall" (brass) to hang out with an Italian -- "gaul" refers to France and the French.

amatters, too many julips?

Interesting discussion. Amatters, hope you will love living in Charleston as much as I love to visit. It will take you some time to adjust-after all you are no only moving to the South, but you are leaving home, starting a new job, starting a long distance romance (not a new man, but new situation). Lots of changes, lots of stressors. Take it slow and take time to enjoy. Lot's of luck.
By the way, Kentucky is not an Eastern state, unless you divide the entire country into East-West. Everything south of Louisville is decidely southern, Louisville depends on who you ask.

amatters: you can start where I did, by learning not to say "yes," or "no" without adding a "ma'am" or a "sir." It's a small thing but something that jumps out at Southerners. If they hear you answer a question "yes", even with a smile, it is jolting. "Yes, sir," goes down much better, and now I say it by habit, even when visiting up North. People in NYC or Boston aren't quite ready for the "yes, ma'am," which makes me smile. ;-) You'll get used to the polite thing, actually enjoy it and miss it when you go back north.

I've do not recall ever hearing anyone call a sofa a 'couch' and the icebox is the icebox.

Charleston is wonderful!! We have always found the people down south to be warm and friendly - fantastic manners!! By the way, for a great meal, go to Charleston Chops - we absolutely loved their filet oscar.

Re: Ma'am and Sir..The minute we moved here, I started saying Yes Ma'am .. it was like I had never left North Carolina! But it feels right somehow and soft, know what I mean? Southern speech is soft and gentle (mostly

Scarlett...I understood every word you said...and didn't say...there! Another sign of a Southerner--sometimes what is not said is louder than what is.

Another startling difference: growing up in MA, every adult was called Mr or Mrs someone. When we lived in New Orleans, the neighborhood children who played with mine called me Ms Olive. Men were called "Mr. (First Name)".

This has been a very enjoyable thread with some wonderful insights and anecdotes about the differences between North and South.

To start off, amatters, I think you will love moving to Charleston. I am from SC and graduated from Clemson and I had a lot of friends from the Northeast. New Jersey and Pennsylvania were two of the most represented states in the student body at Clemson, and I would say that about 50% of my Yankee friends stayed in the South. A very large number actually moved to Charleston and loved it. You will not be the only Yankee in Charleston, and the people there are used to people from all over and will probably applaud you for 'having the good sense' to move to their fair city. I think I remember you saying you were living in North Charleston... that is the only bad thing I can see in your plans as N. Chas. is more business and industry oriented and has little of the grace and style of the peninsula (Charleston proper).

Now, just some remarks and responses to other posters. I agree that Virginia has become an ambiguous state straddling the divide between North and South. From my experiences and from what native Virginians have told me, if you are from 'NoVA' (Fredericksburg and north, basically the DC metro area) then you are NOT from the South, but southern and western VA are still indeed very much the South.

North Carolina not the South? LOL NC is definitely still the South. Charlotte and the Triad and Raliegh-Duhram areas have a huge transplant population and are decidedly progressive and wealthy; however, this is the embodiment of the 'New South' and does not mean that NC is not the South anymore. You will see examples of the New South in all the states and even in smaller towns... this is not the say that the South is receding, its just changing!

Now, about Florida. The Sunshine State's 'southerness' really depends on where you are. I lived in Tampa for a while after college, and I agree with the previous poster's assessment that Tampa serves as the dividing line between 'Southern Georgia Florida' and the 'Yankee Florida' of South Florida. Tampa was quite a mix of cultures. At my job, there were quite a few transplanted Manhattanites as well as a number of people that said 'yall', drank sweet tea, and definitely considered themselves to be Southern (and they were native Tampanians). In northern Florida, including the Gainesville area, it does not take much effort to see rural Southern (not New South) influences. However, as soon as you dip below State Road 60, its as Yankee as Long Island!

Funny story: One time I stopped for gs off I-75 in between Tampa and Gainesville at this very rural gas station. The cashier looked at me strangely and said 'You from up North?' (in a VERY country accent). I laughed... being from SC, I don't get this too often (my accent is very muted, but its still there to a small degree). I looked at her and said, 'Geographically, yes I'm from up north of here, but not in the way you mean.' She looked at me like I was an alien and I just laughed harder and said good-bye. I tell all my friends this story... an SC boy getting confused for a Yankee in Florida!!

I just read this thread- what a hoot.
I realize this is an old thread but I must addresss two injustices .

1)As a Virginia native living with in a stones throw of Maryland I must tell you that Virginia is definitely a southern state- even northern Virginia. As i drive down Jeb Stuart Road on my way to LEESburg, our county seat I start thinking about the statues on the courthouse lawn honoring the soldiers of past wars. WWI ,WWII and the biggest one of all - the statue honoring the confederate soldier. There is not one memorial to the Union soldier. Futher out of town is the Balls Bluff Battlefield Park. There are stones honoring the 13 dead confederate soldiers who died defending the Virginia side of the Potomac- not a mention of the 1000 or so union troops who died trying to cross the river. As we say in the south "It was a turkey shoot".
The neighboring county seat is the town of Winchester. The town changed hand 67 times during the war.
My postmaster/storekeeper in the town I grew up in just died a few years ago. As a boy he saw John Mosby getting a haircut- the famous leader of Mosby's Rangers, a southern terrorist group(one of the first to embrace this sort of warfare). Virginia is the south if you are a southerner. (Maryland tried to suceed as well)
The real reason I posted was to answer Amatters question about alcohol as it would have been rude not to. It seems she might have move to Charleston by now and if she has she has discovered some of the most liberal drinking laws in the nation. If memory serves me correctly last call was around 3:45. Bartenders could drink behind the bar if management allowed and you could request a go cub and leave with your drink or get one or two "for the road". (and actually take it down the road)

or maybe that was Savanah??
Enjoy your new home

I've got to point out that Creole and Cajun is *NOT* the same thing. Cajun is rural S. Louisiana, and the heritage is purely French. Creole is much more associated with the area around New Orleans, and is drawn from French, Spanish, African and Caribbean cultures. "Creole" in New Orleans tends to really mean "from before the Americans moved in." (There is also a rural Spanish-heritage community in Louisiana, the Islenos.) There is really no such thing as a Creole accent in Louisiana anymore; it died out at least a century ago. There is a working-class accent that is unique to certain parts of New Orleans, known locally as "'Yat"; it reminds most people rather forcibly of Brooklyn, but with a drawl.

South Louisianians have a unique accent, which does not really sound quite Southern. A true Cajun accent will differ from that, in that the cadence will be faster, and even when speaking English, there will be a tendency to use a syntax vaguely reminiscent of French. There is also a tendency to lilt the end of a sentence, making it sound a bit like a question. Up until recently, a Cajun accent was something that anyone with an education strove to eradicate. In south Louisiana, a truly "Southern" sounding accent will mark a Louisianian as being from "up North", which is normally defined as somewhere between Alexandria and Shreveport.

One other thing. There are grits and then there are grits. Proper grits are eaten shortly after they are ground, and are cooked very slowly. Grits that can be cooked quickly are not worth eating.

Amatters-

I moved from urban New Jersey to the mountains of North Carolina. I used to live here in my teens, and longed to return.

Racial tensions are not nearly as bad here as I found them to be up north. In fact, I've read that the state with the largest active KKK membership is actually Pennsylvania!

The pace of life is slower than you are used to, that's for sure. You will have to get used to sayings like, "If'n it don't get done today, it will get done tomorrow."

If a little old lady pulls out right in front of you in traffic, then goes 25 miles an hour, the correct response is to simply mutter, "Well bless her heart, she's out and about!"

Don't get flustered if lines move slowly in grocery stores or checkout counters in malls and shops. The normal reaction to such things down here is, "If'n I wasn't doin' this, I'd jest be doin' somethin' else."

Folks are generally more friendly, not in such a big hurry, and will go out of their way to help you much more than you are accustomed to up north. I've actually seen people arguing over who gets to help someone who is broken down or out of gas by the side of the road.

Relish your new home! Enjoy the wonderful changes. Don't worry, be happy. Embrace the simplicity, the beauty and the grace of the south. It is unlike anywhere I have ever been before, and I never want to leave again.

Steve, just FYI...

amatters moved in September of 2004.

good old timey thread

I noticed that quite a few of the posts on this thread make mention of historical aspects of the South, and most are related to the Civil War.

One little-known, great bragging point for folks who were born here is the battle of Kings Mountain. It took place during the Revolutionary War, and all American's owe a debt of gratitude to the mountain men who fought courageously in that battle. They came from all over the hills, with little food, scant supplies and just the will for freedom to drive them on.

When they fought at Kings Mountain, they defeated the British troops by taking the high ground, hiding behind rocks and trees and picking off their enemy.

At the end of it all, the troops that survived trudged back up north, got on a boat and sailed for England. Their General went straight to the King, complained that Southerners didn't fight fair (like standing up and getting shot instead of taking cover!)...and he refused to go back to America after that.

Can't say I blame him. Southerners will stand up for what they believe, and Kings Mountain was a major turning point in the War for Independence.

LOL this is hilarious to read after all this time!
Especially note that this was "Before" the editors started cracking down on multiple-named-trolls .. you will note that about half the posts on here are from the same man.. LOL ..Formally attired etc...talk about Southern Gothic! He must be residing in some belfy somewhere by now


Time sure did fly, i had just moved to Fl and now here I am in Oregon..hmmm..2 years from now, where will I be posting from ~