Jean makes an interesting point. Now, I never (ever) advise against Yosemite Valley, but just possibly, if you have spent a reasonable time in the Valley before . . . you could skip it. 395 south from Tahoe, a detour in to the Yosemite high country and then back out to 395 to continue south.

This would let you explore things like Bodie, Mt Whitney, June Lake, Mono Lake etc . . .

Not that I'm suggesting you omit Yosemite Valley

Definitely mid to end of September. After Labor day weekend it becomes much less busy than before the holiday. And hopefully by the end of September it will be not as hot as in August.

Mmmm...too many things to do and see and not enough time. The usual trip dilemma.

We haven't been to Tuolumne Meadows but have been to Yosemite Valley twice. We love beautiful scenery and short hikes and really love seeing animals in the wild.

A key thing for me on the trip is shopping, things are so much cheaper than here with much more choice. There are usually malls everywhere - not in the parks obviously - so we can make time for that.

Just looked at the map and it seems if we stayed on the 395 east of Yosemite then there are only two ways to cut across back west, either through Yosemite or way down south near Bakersfield.

Jean, when you say the Valley, do you mean where the historic goldrush towns are? That's not a focus of the trip but I thought if we were there anyway... Can you give me a quick idea of things to see near the 395, are they the places Janis suggests, what else would you recommend?

Kay

Valley in this case means Yosemite Valley. That time if year there are several other passes open north of Tioga: Sonora Pass (Hwy 108) and Ebbetts Pass (Hwy 4/89) Hwy4 also branches off onto 89 and on to Tahoe. We did an all day road trip in October: east over Sonora, north on 395 then west on 4. So beautiful and caught the tail end of the yellow aspens.

I don't want to be an agent provocateur, (well, okay, maybe I do a little bit) but let me chime in, at the risk of upsetting an apple cart or two.

First, US 395 and Mono Lake are on the western edge of the Great Basin - a vast arid zone that comprises most of Nevada and Utah west of the Wasatch Range (part of the Rockies.) Mono Lake itself, just outside Lee Vining, is a salty "soda" lake.

In mid-summer this is hot country, albeit dry. The landscape is transitional - at higher elevations as you descend from the High Sierras it has dry pine forestation, which is replaced by sagebrush and cottonwoods near the (seasonal) creeks as you get lower. Finally most trees disappear and this - https://goo.gl/maps/PB2XmwRFk7k - is what the landscape looks like. (If you're not familiar with Google Street View, it's a great way to "explore" different highways.)

The "gold rush" towns and roads are on the west side of the Sierras, where there's greater annual rainfall, hence much more diverse and lush vegetation. Here's a representative photo of what Hwy 49 looks like - https://goo.gl/maps/CK9A8viDf1y - and here's what one of the towns, in this case Sutter Creek, looks like - https://goo.gl/maps/gm7wZWLEHZ52

So as you can see, there's a very big difference in the two sides of the mountains. Both have their benefits, but - to me at least - the west side and the gold rush country have more to offer the visitor in mid-summer.

We haven't been to Tuolumne Meadows but have been to Yosemite Valley twice.

There's certainly nothing wrong with driving up to Tuolumne Meadows and returning back to Hwy 49 rather than going over the pass.

A key thing for me on the trip is shopping, things are so much cheaper than here with much more choice.

I gather from your profile that you've been to the US on many trips. But this got me wondering a little - have you spent any time in the Pacific Northwest?

Here's my reason for asking. Up in our corner of the world we have several national parks that offer a tremendous variety of natural beauty. For example, Olympic National Park just west of Seattle offers alpine meadows and glacier-covered mountains, but a couple of hours away are stunning rocky beaches and dense temperate rain forests with giant elk often visible through the hanging moss.

Or Mount Rainier, or in Oregon Crater Lake, reached in an easy day's drive from Mount Hood and the superb Columbia River Gorge.

For shopping (and I understand this isn't a key element, rather a nice perk) there's no sales tax in Oregon, so things are almost 10% cheaper than they are in California just off the top, and there are plenty of "outlet malls" to welcome your dollars.

You could, with only minor changes to your air travel plans, hop up to San Francisco and do a northern, rather than southern loop - visit Yosemite, but then north to Crater Lake (the scenic superior of Tahoe for my money, and without the honky tonk of South Tahoe) then up to the Columbia Gorge and Mount Hood, then back to SF via the spectacular Oregon coast and the California redwoods, something like this - https://goo.gl/maps/gPdGhUZeQTn

Maybe more than you want to bite off, but it's a spectacular route with amazing variety, and might be worth considering either now or on your next trip.

Is anybody else seeing the link inserted by Fodor's for my "agent p" phrase? Huh?

Here is an extensive list of sights along 395. I'm not sure I'd make stops/detours at everything mentioned but do recommend most.

http://californiathroughmylens.com/highway-395-roadtrip

To the list, I'd add the Mt. Whitney Fish Hatchery near Independence which helped save the California golden trout but no longer stocks fish in the streams and lakes of the Eastern Sierra. The facility was a public works project during the Depression and houses a small museum of its former operations. The pond in front of the building is loaded with trout that you can feed.

http://www.sierranevadageotourism.or...318E6114FD8CE0

The ancient bristlecone forest at Schulman Grove outside of Bishop are some of the oldest trees on the planet.

http://www.hikingwalking.com/destina...stlecone_pines

Obsidian Dome near the Devil's Postpile.

If you drive into the town of Mammoth Lakes, take the gondola to the top of the ski area for fantastic 360 degree views of the Minarets mountains, the Owens Valley (which 395 runs through) and Yosemite in the distance.

If Mammoth is too much of a detour, do drive the June Lake Loop.

In Lee Vining, the Friends of Mono Lake operate a book and gift shop. Many books about Mono Lake, Yosemite, the Sierra and California and (mostly) local crafts and jewelry.

At Mono Lake, be sure to visit the Interpretive Center to understand the fascinating ecosystem.

From the Tioga Road, take a short dirt road to Saddlebag Lake Resort (look for sign on north side of road about 12 miles west of 395). From there, you can ride a water taxi to the other side of the lake and do a short hike to other lakes in Twenty Lakes Basin.

I'll probably think of more things, but that's a start...

I'm seeing the link gardy.

I sent a note to the admins.

Great info Jean. I need to convince DH to check out that part of our state. So beautiful. A friend from high school spends his summer mule packing up in Mono all summer. Love his photos.

Oh, Michelle, there's so much more if you have time...

Red Rock Canyon a few miles north of Mojave.

In Lone Pine, sights related to the 1872 earthquake. A surviving adobe wall, cemetery of victims, etc. The Cottonwood Charcoal Kilns from the same era are near the town.

Galen Rowell's Mountain Light photo gallery in Bishop.

If you're into geology and specifically volcanology, Fossil Falls is my favorite sight along 395, but Panum Crater (actually a plug dome) near Mono Lake is interesting. Great views of the lake and the group of Mono Craters to the south.

Lundy Canyon when the leaves are turning is spectacular.

A few years ago, we saw a bighorn sheep herd in Twenty Lakes Basin above Saddleback Lake (which I mentioned upthread). Numbers have recovered a little in recent years but very few bighorn are thought to still live in the Yosemite area of the Sierra Nevada. A huge treat for us.

Thanks so much everyone. Gardyloo, you make a persuasive argument, I'm going to check it all out on the map and talk it over with my husband. About 20 years ago we drove up through California as far as Portland, Oregon and did another trip where we visited western Canada and down to Seattle, back around to Vancouver Island. We love America and have seen a lot of it, I guess about 26 states. There is always more to see though!

I think in general we'd rather see green and lush than desert. We did a 4 week trip a couple of years ago around Colorado and Utah and saw plenty of dry landscape there. We loved the trip, and the national parks, don't get me wrong.

I have work today and tomorrow so not much time but I will get back with any questions. Thank you all!

Kay

I should get paid by the Columbia Gorge merchants, the way I keep promoting the area on these boards, but I keep coming back to the belief that this is one of the most overlooked destinations in the country for people wanting a combination of landscapes, towns, activities and scenic wonders. This is not that it's empty, not by any means, and it's not taking anything away from Yosemite or other western national parks, all of which have that status for good reason.

But with the Gorge and nearby areas, here's what you get, roughly traveling east to west:

- A replica of Stonehenge overlooking the red-rock walls bordering the Columbia River. http://www.maryhillmuseum.org/2013/w...benCanales.jpg

- A mile or two away, the quirky Maryhill Museum - www.maryhillmuseum.org - with its remarkable collection of Rodin sculpture, a terrific sculpture garden, a fascinating collection of post-war miniature French fashion mannequins (they didn't have enough fabric for full size.)

- Numerous vineyards and wineries producing outstanding wines.

- Roadside rock walls tumbling down to the mile-wide Columbia River

- Picturesque and comfortable little towns like Hood River and White Salmon, home to numerous microbreweries, vineyards and artisan restaurants.

- White water rafting on several rivers, running from Class I to Class IV-V water, depending on the month and year. Hood River claims to be the world capital of windsurfing, and I believe them. http://gorgeculture.org/wp-content/g...ia%20Gorge.jpg

- The stunning Hood River Valley with its orchards, vineyards, fruit stands and views of Mount Hood in one direction - http://gardyloo.us/20100509_85a.JPG - and Mouint Adams in the other.

- Mount Hood itself, awesome and beautiful, with historic Timberline Lodge and year-round skiing on its permanent icefields. http://www.timberlinelodge.com/

- Back by the river, a series of waterfalls ranging from famous Multnomah Falls to Latourell - http://gardyloo.us/20100509_42b.JPG - to the stunning Oneonta Gorge with its canyon and waterfall - https://res.cloudinary.com/roadtripp...tfpqtd9u9l.jpg

- Bonneville Dam and its fish hatchery, home to Herman the Sturgeon, an ancient, giant fish that's been thrilling kids for sixty years or more.

- Crown Point and the vistas the Historic Gorge Highway offers of the gorge itself - http://gardyloo.us/20100509_5a.JPG

... and all this an hour or two from Portland, with its fantastic food scene, farmers markets, funky lodgings, Powell's books...

And that's just the beginning. Head two hours from Portland to Cape Disappointment at the mouth of the Columbia for waves on rocks below lighthouses - http://icons.wunderground.com/data/w...82/174-800.jpg - and Lewis and Clark history, then south along the Oregon coast past more headlands, fishing villages, sand dunes... all the way to California, where the coast road turns inland and threads its way through the Del Norte and Humboldt redwoods. I just can't think of a 300- or 400-mile stretch of roads that offers this kind of variety, all of it best-in-show.

Sorry, end of speech.

Hi Gardyloo,

If we were to head north up to Oregon would it make much difference, weather wise, to go in August or September?

Also do you think we'd see more wildlife up that way, in the parks etc, than around Yosemite and Tahoe. We love seeing animals in the wild (or wildlife sanctuaries like we saw once near Denver).

Still need to do some talking and deciding but this all sounds very tempting.

Thanks.

Kay