I am dumbfounded by age restriction at a local restaurant...
Oct 5th, 2007, 11:02 AM
#41
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"Sounds like a lot of people here just don't like children."
HUH? All I've seen is a number of posts talking about UNRULY children. And some may agree that the only way not to get those is by setting an age limit. What on earth does that have to do with reaching a conclusion that people who don't want to hear screaming children or have them running around them in an upscale restaurant "just don't like children". What silly reasoning.
Next someone will say that anyone putting up a sign telling people they need to clean up after their dog, or putting a no dogs allowed sign on their lawn means they "just don't like animals". Just as silly.
HUH? All I've seen is a number of posts talking about UNRULY children. And some may agree that the only way not to get those is by setting an age limit. What on earth does that have to do with reaching a conclusion that people who don't want to hear screaming children or have them running around them in an upscale restaurant "just don't like children". What silly reasoning.
Next someone will say that anyone putting up a sign telling people they need to clean up after their dog, or putting a no dogs allowed sign on their lawn means they "just don't like animals". Just as silly.
Oct 5th, 2007, 11:22 AM
#42
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I raised 3 children and have always received compliments on how well-behaved they were. Even so, I agree it is appropriate to have restaurants where children are not invited...as long as the rules are clear. They should be posted on the door and on the web-site.
On the other hand, we parents with well-behaved children also need nice restaurants where we can take our children and teach them (at an appropriate age) how to properly behave in public.
When my daughters were pre-teens, I found a great deal on a Ritz hotel in San Francisco, and we went for a girl's weekend. I talked to the girls about how to behave in this "fancy" hotel. They were very good. We only stayed one night.
There was a tea-house in the Ritz and we almost went in for tea. We changed our minds as we observed a little girl having her tea, with perfect posture and perfect manners. She could have been a queen. She was better behaved than most adults are in restaurants. So we decided we weren't up for that level of "manners" with our tea!
My point is that...parents who don't teach their children how to behave are to blame for restaurants getting desperate enough to bar children!
But I do think it's only fair to post this policy very clearly.
By the way, if you're a parent and you aren't sure if your child is behaving properly in a restaurant, just look around you. Are other guests ignoring your child? Then the child is behaving. Are other guests smiling at the child? Your child is behaving. Are numerous guests frowning at your child, staring at your child, and frowning at you? Your child is not behaving and YOU need to do something about it, if you're in a nice restaurant especially.
On the other hand, we parents with well-behaved children also need nice restaurants where we can take our children and teach them (at an appropriate age) how to properly behave in public.
When my daughters were pre-teens, I found a great deal on a Ritz hotel in San Francisco, and we went for a girl's weekend. I talked to the girls about how to behave in this "fancy" hotel. They were very good. We only stayed one night.
There was a tea-house in the Ritz and we almost went in for tea. We changed our minds as we observed a little girl having her tea, with perfect posture and perfect manners. She could have been a queen. She was better behaved than most adults are in restaurants. So we decided we weren't up for that level of "manners" with our tea!
My point is that...parents who don't teach their children how to behave are to blame for restaurants getting desperate enough to bar children!
But I do think it's only fair to post this policy very clearly.
By the way, if you're a parent and you aren't sure if your child is behaving properly in a restaurant, just look around you. Are other guests ignoring your child? Then the child is behaving. Are other guests smiling at the child? Your child is behaving. Are numerous guests frowning at your child, staring at your child, and frowning at you? Your child is not behaving and YOU need to do something about it, if you're in a nice restaurant especially.
Oct 5th, 2007, 11:32 AM
#43
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"Sounds like a lot of people here just don't like children"
I like children, I like dogs and I like people.
But that doesn't mean that I'm willing to put up with bad behavior from any of the above.
Yesterday, a friend was really busy trying to get her kids picked up and dropped off. I offered to give her 8 year old son a ride to a play date.
I love this kid, he's interesting and polite. When we arrived at his friend's house, he thanked me for the ride and even thank me for going "out of my way". I would go miles out of my way for this child or his sister. They are a joy.
That's not to say they are perfect. I know them, I've seen and heard them at their worst. That's okay, they're kids but they also understand that there is a time and place for everything.
I like children, I like dogs and I like people.
But that doesn't mean that I'm willing to put up with bad behavior from any of the above.
Yesterday, a friend was really busy trying to get her kids picked up and dropped off. I offered to give her 8 year old son a ride to a play date.
I love this kid, he's interesting and polite. When we arrived at his friend's house, he thanked me for the ride and even thank me for going "out of my way". I would go miles out of my way for this child or his sister. They are a joy.
That's not to say they are perfect. I know them, I've seen and heard them at their worst. That's okay, they're kids but they also understand that there is a time and place for everything.
Oct 5th, 2007, 12:16 PM
#45
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I was thinking again about the time that child I mentioned pulled the tablecloth off their neighbor's table. When the manager came to straighten out the mess including the food and liquid dumped on the guests, the child's parents started telling him that the problem was the tablecloths are too long. If it hadn't been hanging almost to the floor, the child never would have done that. I couldn't believe the manager managed to keep his cool.
Maybe some restaurants should institute a minimum IQ or common sense requirement instead of an age limit. Sometimes it's the idiot parents who should be kept out more than the children!
Maybe some restaurants should institute a minimum IQ or common sense requirement instead of an age limit. Sometimes it's the idiot parents who should be kept out more than the children!
Oct 5th, 2007, 12:46 PM
#46
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It isn't just the really bad behavior in some cases. When tables are tight it's annoying when people have really loud conversations or worse - fight while you're trying to having a date or nice time. It's even more irritating when the conversation at your elbow is about Dora the Explorer. The owner's want an adult atmosphere and they might think they still live in a time when people knew what was appropriate. A bakery in NYC put a sign up about well behaved children being welcome and all others NOT. All hell broke loose. So, hanging a sign on the door won't always keep everyone happy.
Oct 5th, 2007, 01:05 PM
#47
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I love children but think it's fine for restaurants to set their own policies regarding them. I don't enjoy sitting near screeching children or those running around a restaurant while parents finish their meals, barely giving the kids a glance.
Oct 5th, 2007, 01:25 PM
#49
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Dohlice, that's pretty funny about the bakery in NYC. What a sense of entitlement, haha.
This has nothing to do with kids but I'm reminded of the time I was at the Strand one day, at the bag check, and the woman in front of me snatched her bag from the security guard and hissed, "Your bag check policy is absolutely disgusting."
Like, whoa, lady, god forbid you have to check your bag for a half hour.
This has nothing to do with kids but I'm reminded of the time I was at the Strand one day, at the bag check, and the woman in front of me snatched her bag from the security guard and hissed, "Your bag check policy is absolutely disgusting."
Like, whoa, lady, god forbid you have to check your bag for a half hour.
Oct 5th, 2007, 02:46 PM
#51
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I don't have a problem with a restaurant establishing a minimum age limit - although it should be posted. On the other hand I get very irritated w/adults who make snap decisions and assume all children misbehave at restaurants. I've said this before, but when we receive dirty looks when entering a restaurant - not necessarily upscale - from other patrons, we ignore it and enjoy our meal. When those same patrons come over and compliment our children's good behavior, I'd like to give them a mouthful about their bad behavior.
On a lighter note - I looked at the Frisky Oyster website and you should be thrilled that you were denied service. If you click on gallery and then click on the back arrow there are photos of the Frisky Cats, including one eating on the counter and another cat licking its butt. Very appetizing!
On a lighter note - I looked at the Frisky Oyster website and you should be thrilled that you were denied service. If you click on gallery and then click on the back arrow there are photos of the Frisky Cats, including one eating on the counter and another cat licking its butt. Very appetizing!
Oct 5th, 2007, 02:48 PM
#52
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I am really dumbfounded by this question. There are age restrictions at every other type of entertainment venue. Movie theatres, clubs, live theatre venues, etc. Why couldn't there be for restaurants as well?
Don't tell me that everyone here hasn't gone into a restaurant in their past and all the tables are filled by mature diners. No families at all. And there are never any families at that particular restaurant as well. Does the restaurant have to post that? No, because it is known by the type of establishment it is.
My question is: Why didn't the OP ask about their daughter when they made the reservations for dinner? Obviously, there isn't a child's menu on the Frisky Oyster's website. (One very big clue that this is not a place where you would normally take children, especially younger ones.)
In addition, the newspapers and magazines which have reviewed the restaurant most likely indicated whether this is a kid-friendly location. For example, the Chicago newspapers and websites (such as Metromix) clearly indicate those restaurants which are considered "family-friendly".
And the reviews posted on the restaurant's own website reference the words "chic", "upscale", etc., which would be another big clue to me, if I was a parent.
With all due respect, personally, if I were in the OP's shoes, I'd have done a little research before going to a new or different restaurant.
IMHO, I don't think that restaurants need to post that they are for more mature diners. There are other ways to show that is the case. In fact, there was a particular restaurant here in Chicago that did post a written restriction on *unruly* children and got a lot of flack about it. Good for the restaurant, I say!!!
I live in Lakeview, which (until recently) was considered a pretty adult neighborhood in nature. However, as prices kept climbing in other neighborhoods (such as Lincoln Park), more and more families starting coming into Lakeview for lower-priced housing. As a result, a number of restaurants which had mature clientele now were getting more of a mixture. One of the restaurants where I go many times a week, and which has a great patio area, sits right across the street from an elementary school. I read a review on Metromix posted by a disgruntled mother stating she had been told by the restaurant manager (and/or owner) that this was not a family-friendly place. And I say Bravo!!!! for him/her because if it was frequented by mothers with strollers with babies, children or families, I would no longer be one of their very good clients spending BIG bucks on adult menu items.
And, for the record, I don't hate children. But when I am spending a large(r) amount for a meal, I prefer not to have a table next to a family. Call me anything you wish, but I have had too many meals ruined by children who don't know how to behave in restaurants and parents who are not wise enough to control them.
Nowadays, if I see a family near where I am going to be seated, I will not accept the table, even if it means waiting for another. But, then again, I do my best to choose only those restaurants where I know adults will be present.
Don't tell me that everyone here hasn't gone into a restaurant in their past and all the tables are filled by mature diners. No families at all. And there are never any families at that particular restaurant as well. Does the restaurant have to post that? No, because it is known by the type of establishment it is.
My question is: Why didn't the OP ask about their daughter when they made the reservations for dinner? Obviously, there isn't a child's menu on the Frisky Oyster's website. (One very big clue that this is not a place where you would normally take children, especially younger ones.)
In addition, the newspapers and magazines which have reviewed the restaurant most likely indicated whether this is a kid-friendly location. For example, the Chicago newspapers and websites (such as Metromix) clearly indicate those restaurants which are considered "family-friendly".
And the reviews posted on the restaurant's own website reference the words "chic", "upscale", etc., which would be another big clue to me, if I was a parent.
With all due respect, personally, if I were in the OP's shoes, I'd have done a little research before going to a new or different restaurant.
IMHO, I don't think that restaurants need to post that they are for more mature diners. There are other ways to show that is the case. In fact, there was a particular restaurant here in Chicago that did post a written restriction on *unruly* children and got a lot of flack about it. Good for the restaurant, I say!!!
I live in Lakeview, which (until recently) was considered a pretty adult neighborhood in nature. However, as prices kept climbing in other neighborhoods (such as Lincoln Park), more and more families starting coming into Lakeview for lower-priced housing. As a result, a number of restaurants which had mature clientele now were getting more of a mixture. One of the restaurants where I go many times a week, and which has a great patio area, sits right across the street from an elementary school. I read a review on Metromix posted by a disgruntled mother stating she had been told by the restaurant manager (and/or owner) that this was not a family-friendly place. And I say Bravo!!!! for him/her because if it was frequented by mothers with strollers with babies, children or families, I would no longer be one of their very good clients spending BIG bucks on adult menu items.
And, for the record, I don't hate children. But when I am spending a large(r) amount for a meal, I prefer not to have a table next to a family. Call me anything you wish, but I have had too many meals ruined by children who don't know how to behave in restaurants and parents who are not wise enough to control them.
Nowadays, if I see a family near where I am going to be seated, I will not accept the table, even if it means waiting for another. But, then again, I do my best to choose only those restaurants where I know adults will be present.
Oct 5th, 2007, 03:06 PM
#55
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I think there are 2 different things going on here.
One is children misbehaving in upscale restaurants - and that's older kids who should know better. (The restaurant isn't going to ban 12 year olds - but I've run into a few that should not be allowed to eat anywhere (crawling under tables, nearly knocking over a server etc). Those parent should no better - and not let the child eat out until human manners are instilled.
But for younger kids - usually 5 and under - they simply CAN'T behave in an upscale place - they're not developmentally ready to sit still and quiet for 2 or 2.5 hours - they simply don;t have the ability (And no - constantly trying to calm them with toys or coloring books or - I even once saw a portable DVD player - is NOT the answer. I don;t want to listen to some kiddy video while I eat diner. And it's unfair to impose that on either the other diners or frustrate the poor kids.
One is children misbehaving in upscale restaurants - and that's older kids who should know better. (The restaurant isn't going to ban 12 year olds - but I've run into a few that should not be allowed to eat anywhere (crawling under tables, nearly knocking over a server etc). Those parent should no better - and not let the child eat out until human manners are instilled.
But for younger kids - usually 5 and under - they simply CAN'T behave in an upscale place - they're not developmentally ready to sit still and quiet for 2 or 2.5 hours - they simply don;t have the ability (And no - constantly trying to calm them with toys or coloring books or - I even once saw a portable DVD player - is NOT the answer. I don;t want to listen to some kiddy video while I eat diner. And it's unfair to impose that on either the other diners or frustrate the poor kids.
Oct 5th, 2007, 03:16 PM
#56
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I'll use my daughter as an example, she was probably 3 at the time & she does like the whole cooking gig. We took her to Sullivan's (steakhouse) for dinner as she wanted to go to a 'fancy' restaurant. She was greeted w/a chefs hat & invited to the prep area where they were preparing appetizers, salads & such. She was enthralled ! In fact, we had a hard time getting her to sit down long enough to eat her steak. Perhaps a little effort on the part of the restaurant is beneficial as well ?? I think so.
Oct 5th, 2007, 03:22 PM
#57
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And if the child gets accidentally hurt in the kitchen, the owner may go bankrupt to pay off attorneys' fees.
Unless it's a "take your child to work" day I don't want to see children in the restaurants' kitchens.
Unless it's a "take your child to work" day I don't want to see children in the restaurants' kitchens.
Oct 5th, 2007, 03:23 PM
#58
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Your 3 year old wanted to go to a "fancy restaurant so you took her. While I am glad that the experience worked out well for her, if she had wanted to drive a "fancy car" or do some "fancy brain surgery" would you have granted that wish as well?
(And the key to the whole conversation is in the part where you said you had trouble getting her to sit down long enough to eat her steak - that is just what rugrats are like at that age)
(And the key to the whole conversation is in the part where you said you had trouble getting her to sit down long enough to eat her steak - that is just what rugrats are like at that age)
