highbay

Florida went smoke free a couple of years ago, and I love it. It has become such a fact of life, that I forget that other states don't have these same laws.

Example: We are currently traveling to Maine and spent our first night in Atlantic Beach, NC. Went to a nice restaurant last night. We could smell the smoke as soon as we opened the door. The restaurant (Watermark) was too small to even offer "smoking" or "non-smoking".

We were lucky enough (not really) to sit in an elevated area with a guy that was sitting just below us-that smoked the entiretime. This guy ate with a lit cigarette in his hand! Unfreaking believable!!!

We're in Delaware tonight, and though the meal was not as tasty...the atmosphere was much nicer.

crefloors

And there is a huge number of people out there that drink alcohol to excess and are in total denial. " Alcoholic? Not me!!" Well, we ask, how many drinks to you have every day? Oh, four or five..but I drink wine..wine's healthy. The other one is..well, I only drink light beer. I drink a 6 pack every day but it's light beer, no big deal. Alcohol destroys brain cells. Depending on what study you read or what publication, there are those who say that one who would have two or three drinks per day every day, indeed have a drinking problem. People ingest a whole lot of stuff into their bodies: smoke, drugs, alcohol and the like. We are born with perfectly good bodies and many people spend their lives seeing how much abuse they can give it and still go on. So now we've covered smoking, drinking..hmmm what's next. Oh I know...lets talk about food addiction. So how about the guy that weighs 600 pounds? So what? Who's he hurting? By the way..I think the smoking bans for the most part are a good thing.

Nimrod

Speaking of addictions...know of anyone afflicted with this devastating one?

Certainly does seem to fit the profile of some around here, no?

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/arti.../intaddic.html

Ranger

It's amazing that with all we know now about the danger of second hand smoke, some still don't "get it"..

MikeT

As someone who travels alone (and thus dines alone), smoke free cities are great. I love being able to sit at the bar at nice restaurant and dine. Bartenders are fun to talk with, other patrons can be chatty, or I can just sit and read the paper while not taking up a two-top table.

Scarlett

Very funny Nimrod..yes, it just about covers all of Fodorville...in one way or another.
Maybe we should take up smoking? lol

Vittrad

I'm the sort that enjoys the occasional cigarette, but I've written my alderman twice here in Chicago asking him to vote for making the bars and resturants smoke free. I'll admit to being slightly suspicious if it could work, but a visit and a night out on the town in NYC convinced me it could. I don't want to go home smelling like an ashtray anymore, and if I want to indulge in the occasional guilty smoke, I would be happy to do so outside, even in January if that means the bars didn't reek. I really hope it goes through here sooner rather than later ... oh and Ditka's an idiot, in more ways than one.

JJ5

Yes, we GET it about second-hand smoke. We know it kills. So do many other habits, events, actions that you choose NOT to outlaw and that you can not personally control.

I hate smoking and love smoke-free environments. Nevertheless, this is still complete rationalizing. And jorr, yes- alcohol is shoved down someone else's throat every day by pregnant women and surrounds the entire developing brain. It causes life-long and crippling damage, and is something that neither time nor removing the material forevermore after the fact- will result in a improvement for the victim's chronic condition.

I just think it strange that people who want to throw laws at others' behavior using "inability to protect oneself" as a criteria, pick and choose only the
one that will be the "least" missed by THEMSELVES.

And law enforcement and justice over-all has suffered from the glut of unenforceable laws. I don't think most drug use should be illegal. My brother who is a lifelong cop/homicide detective doesn't think so either.

Yes, I'm glad for the cleaner air and smoke free areas, especially restaurants- but I am not happy that it, like most drugs are so regulated and legislated.

It's extremely ironic that there is "empathy" toward personal freedoms and "choices" be they even final choices, or for sex offenders and murderers after they have served their terms, yet you limit the activity of a smoker in a place that YOU YOURSELF are free to leave. They re-commit the same crimes upon the vulnerable public to a very high degree, yet their "person freedom rights" are supposedly essential to our concept of "freedom". To me and lots of others, you just can't have it both ways. Picking and choosing; very big brother and a very slippery slope.

LLindaC

Yes there are places that we can leave. However, as a musician for over 30 years, I now cannot work anynore in places that allow smoking. In other words, I've been smoked out of my career. I have to pick and choose jobs based on smoking. I have no choice. When my children are grown and gone, I guess I can travel to smoke free cities to work again. Not fair for people who need jobs and work.

jorr

JJ5, Am I also "free to leave" a building filled with toxic smoke? Gee thanks. I think the jerks who Cause the problem should be "free to leave".

bugswife1

I agree with you Jorr. Smokers always assumed they had the right to smoke anywhere they pleased. But, not their fault. It is kind of like squatters rights. We let it go on for decades. Of course they scream when the 'right' is taken away. it is like giving a raise when business is great, and then taking a paycut when things suck--be prepared for a revolt. But, they are getting back at us non-smokers. Has anyone else noticed a substantial increase in cigarette butts all over the sidewalks and in the parks? Hard to feel sorry for them-watching them shivering in the cold while taking a drag after they have just flicked 4 butts/garbage onto the ground. AND getting back to TRAVEL, do you remember when they could smoke on a plane. How utterly disgusting was THAT?

jorr

bugswife1, Yes I remember when smoking was permitted on planes. I remember arriving home smelling like a damn cigarette butt and asking my mom to put my cloths in the washer. The same load with the dairy cow barn cloths.

jimmyk64

This post amuses me!

I've lived in five different communities in my fairly long life, and I've learned that city government and township government, is berift of brilliance. The "guys" we elect to protect our freedoms are mentally handicapped and biased beyond belief.

Protecting Constitutional RIGHTS on a local level is beyond the scope of our elected officials. They didn't get IT in high school, if they had any college, they didn't get IT there, either.

So you've got a smoking ban in your local community. Good for you!

Just ponder this: Your rabid desire to make everyone conform to your concept of RIGHT, is an invitation to Nazism.

Enjoy your Prime Rib in a smoke-free environment.

elizabeth_reed

I like it a lot. There's a sport bar I occasionally go to that still allows smoking -- because of the ratio of liquor/food. Fortunately, the last time my friend and I had lunch there, no one was smoking.

Vittrad

Oh, Nazism has been mentioned, should we invoke Godwin's law now?

bugswife1

jimmyk64 - prime rib? do you think this is just about not smoking in restaurants so we can enjoy our food? it goes well beyond that. Smoking in public and enclosed places had gotten unbelievably out of control. I quit a job because everyone around me had a cigarette burning on his desk all day long. As soon as one went out, another fire was on the log. I was physically ill from it. Overseas flights became torturous, ladies lounges were out of the question in most stores, offices, and restaurants. As a non-smoker, I came home feeling ill, as if I had smoked a pack a day myself. When cigarettes hit $7.50 a pack, I thought for sure it would cut down on some of this, but nope. So, I guess I would rather have the government interfere in this case and try to keep me healthy, along with the innocent children who have no idea why the fuss. Don't we pollute their environment enough? It is pure selfishness and disregard of another intelligent human being,who is well aware of the medical dangers, to subject others to second hand smoke.

bugswife1

oops, log on the fire. See other thread. No sleep last night.

nytraveler

Alisa and Virginia -

Sorry - alcohol is not addicting - for most people. Unlike tobacco which is addicting to everyone (like crack, heroin, crystal meth etc) due to its chemical ingredients - alcohol is addicting to only those people who have a genetic predisposition.

That doesn;t mean other people can;t drink too much due to bad habits/bad judgement - they can - but it's not a physical addiction - just bad choices. And that's not alcoholism - it's just abuse/irresponsibility.

That's why alcoholism is considered a disease - because it has a physical cause within the patient - that does not affect most people who drink moderately without any problems.

If you don;t agree - or need more info - suggest you consult the section in the National Institutes of Health web site on alcoholism and it's causes.

Separately, for those who mentioned alcoholism causes absence from work, family problems etc - you're corredct - it does. But so does smoking, Smokers - esp heavy smokers - have significantly more diseases, absence from work, use of health care resources - never mind what they do to their families -esp their children.

This argument is simply ridiculous. No one has the "right" to continue behavior that endangers others just for their own "pleasure". The constitution says right to "life, liberty and the pusuit of happiness" - others right to not be endangered by your smoke far trumps your right to "pursue happiness" by smoking.

JJ5

What about noise? What about loud, loud music?

bennnie

Even non-alcoholics cause problems with their "moderate" drinking. You don't have to be an alcoholic to drink too much, get behind the wheel of a car and kill someone. Using the smoking logic, we should ban alcohol because other people's use of it endangers the public.

Now, getting back to reality, I personally like no smoking in a restaurant but my personal preference would be to allow properietors of drinking establishments make their own decision to be smoking or non-smoking. Individuals including the empolyees could make their own decision whether to work there or not.

My point is only that we need to exercise caution whenever we as a society start making choices for individuals. We will become a society of people who wait for the government to save us from everything and exercise no personal responsibility for anything. Hmmm.....