Holacaust Museum

Apr 23rd, 2005, 10:43 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,149
I find this offensive as a question in general I find it particularly offensive on the first night of Passover.
PamSF is offline  
Apr 23rd, 2005, 11:09 PM
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Dear PamSF, I am not Jewish, but I too had the same thought.

And obviously someone posted something that caused Fodors to delete the Passover thread. Otherwise why was it deleted?

There was Catholic bashing some days ago.

And this Jim, maybe a coincidence, do not know who this poster is; but this evening I too thought what a strange thread to write tonight of all nights.

Peace and love to all of you with good hearts.
LoveItaly is offline  
Apr 24th, 2005, 05:00 AM
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While I could expect denials maybe 100, 200 or so years, I find it almost impossible to imagine that there would be denials of a Holocaust within a timeframe that included people who lived in that era.

In 1980, a radical "neo-Nazi" group in Torrance, CA offered a $50,000 reward to anyone who could prove that "Jews were gassed in gas-chambers in Auschwitz."

A friend of our family, Mel Mermelstein, who was the only member of his immediate family to have survived Auschwitz, came forward to prove the "allegation" and ended up suing the neo-Nazi group, the Institute for Historical Review, for the $50,000 reward they offered.

On October 9, 1981, L.A. County Superior Court Judge, the Honorable Thomas T. Johnson, ruled and declared the following: "This court does take judicial notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944. It is not reasonably subject to dispute. And it is capable of immediate and accurate determination by resort to sources of reasonably indisputable accuracy. It is simply a fact."

Although the judge ruled in his favor, Mel never did collect his $50,000 reward (the group disappeared), but he did write a book about his experiences as a survivor - By Bread Alone

The book was eventually made into a movie, directed by, and starring Leonard Nimoy as Mel.

Peace to All, Robyn >-
artstuff is offline  
Apr 24th, 2005, 08:19 AM
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Are you serious Jim? Honestly I'm shocked.

Not only did many Americans lose their lives liberating the Jews but as someone else pointed out, many of those survivors are United States citizens. Millions of US citizens are related to those who were gassed in the concentration camps.

While I find the Holocaust museum sad and depressing, I find your question of why it is on the Mall even more so.
Apr 24th, 2005, 09:39 AM
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,253
Yes, terrible in the timing and also in the context of various other issues. And IMHO would have been tasteless at any time. The Holocaust was a world wide atrocity because it was encompassed within WWII. This can never be forgotten. And there have been others as well, but that does not diminish the horrid, organized mass murders in Europe during the WWII era.

I think we have a few strident haters or two who like to stir the pot here.
It starts small, as well. Don't forget that. "Jokes" or "Comics"- have you ever read or seen back issues of late 1930's German newspapers? I have. They make fun of "their" intellect, clothes, accent, etc. and it is all in a real "funny" context. Then it becomes throwing stones through store windows, or knocking people off sidewalks. And then escalates into much, much more. It is all in exact and sometimes melodious language, "logical" with the covert hate quite there but dressed in a pretty coat of praise and self-righteous "Why should that be there!" And jealousy is the seedbed it is grown in. Jealousy by those who have a hole inside that others have filled with some "good" things that they want but have no way of getting within their accepted life plan.

So much more I could say, because my German grandparents (not Jewish) fleed all over Europe trying to get away from this garbage, and it split up both of their families permanently and forevermore. And when we TRAVEL to see some now- it is NOT their descendants who stayed, but the ones who left with them who are now in other places. EVEN NOW it is still there- that division. People are still alive who remember so much of this, and remember the dead/murdered.

And Americans by thousands and thousands died also because of this insiduous pervasive hate on the rampage.

Most surprisingly, I am shocked that so few of you say you can remember studying this in your grade, high schools. We read Exodus by Leon Uris before I was out of 7th Grade. Also later Hiroshima by John Hershey. These issues and moralities were studied across the academic curriculum- not just in Hist. or Pol. Sci. I went to school in Catholic grade / high schools with 55 to 60 kids per teacher in one classroom during the '50's. Dominican Nuns (South side of Chicago proper), and we studied Holacaust in detail, down to the pictures/ "lampshades" etc. And what lead up to the rise of the Nazi party as well during the late 1930's.

Sometimes I see some sharp parallels between that time and now. The whole PC thing is scary as it "entitles" some groups to a totally different consideration and treatment than others. And how these political systems and subsequent atrocities seems to have missed so many of you in "good" school systems. Why? Not by me.

I read this yesterday and debated to answer or not, as it was answered more kindly already, but I just couldn't get pass the not learning it in school!!!
Exodus was published in '59 and so many other non-fiction pieces- that would lead into some deep discussive inquiry that we did all through the 50's and 60's as the "morality" of Community to ME also changed during that time, and that was discussed as well. Israel was established in 1948. And my kids studied in the 1970's and 1980's in public schools in Chicago suburbs and they studied Halocaust and Genocides also. I remember my daughter taking my Grandmother's family pictures from 1913 and doing a show and tell of what happened to each of the 11 family members (9 brothers and you just don't want to know). And I also remember a big project done on the Cambodian genocide during that very period. Right now my college has a field full of flags for all those who are missing or "down" in Sudan. Can't see how the schools can fail to teach the reality of this.
JJ5 is offline  
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