I agree with Debi and OSB, and I also have written my views here before.

I've lived my whole life in two completely different places, both with high tourist traffic. One is Edinburgh in Scotland, the other is San Diego. In both places, though there is no "Revealed" book for either, tourists still manage to get themselves killed because they're doing dangerous things or just not paying attention. Isn't there a thread on the Europe board now about the number of people who have fallen of, been blown off or just jumped from the Cliffs of Moher? These tragedies are not limited to Hawaii, and they are not because of one guide book.

I agree with many if the posts that claim the books reveal some gems that are best left to locals, but I have also used the books to help me research and plan itineraries before vacationing. We enjoyed many adventures on the Big Island that we wouldn't have known about if we had not read the book. That said, tourists should be prepared to act responsibly and use common sense, Hawaii is not Disneyland, the potential for danger is real. There are always going to be silly people who get themselves into trouble because they don't appreciate/respect the power of nature. There are always going to be people who litter and leave a mess also. You can't blame the book for the actions of people like this. We are each responsible for our own actions.

sistahlou
Date: 11/22/2006, 10:52 pm
THIS IS VERY SINCERE AND FROM THE HEART. PLEASE CONSIDER MY THOUGHTS.

OK, I am going to try once more to help fans of the Revealed Books understand my horror at the lack of responsibility from the authors, Andrew and Harriet.

Picture yourself, your a funloving adventurer, hip on traveling off the beaten path. You are stoked that you found this freakin' cool place that no one has discovered, so, haven found no hawaiin name, you name it yourself.
Olivine Pools.

You run into some old college friends that have never visited the islands. Knowing how freakin' cool this place is you show them pictures and tell them to be careful, could be slippery, but the pools are pristine.

Now a couple of months pass, and you suddenly find out that...

"Mary" fell on the rocks heading down and has a Traumatic Brain Injury which she will likely never truly recover from.

"John" was so stoked at how freakin' cool the place was that he walked closer to the edge then he meant to. Hey, the ocean was pretty calm, and the pools looked pristine. Too bad that half way across the pacific, Japan had an earthquake, sending a rogue wave towards your namesake Olivine

So now your two best friends lives are over. Mary has brain damage from falling on the rocks, and John is dead.

How has this affected you? Two close friends forever changed because you sent them to an off the beaten path, hidden gem.

A few months later you run into another gang from the past that are visiting the islands for the first time.What do you do?

Do you tell them the rocky steep trail can get slippery at times, or do you tell them, if you slip, protect your head at all cost?

Do you tell them in a previous conversation to never turn their back on the ocean? And 12 foot waves can be dangerous even though you know someone has drowned in a much quieter surf. Or do you tell them that your best friend died here a few months ago, because he was naive and wasn't truly aware of the power of the ocean.

Do you take responsability and do your best to make sure your circle of friends understand the power of the ocean and the seasons of the ocean?

Or do you show them pictures of how freakin' cool the spot is and send them out with a suggestion, Hey be careful out there....?

Never underestimate the power of your actions or no actions.

Actually "what you do" is sort of obvious. You show your friends the pictures, tell them what a beautiful spot the pools are BUT that common sense and caution are required (then you tell them about "Mary" and "John").
YOU are NOT responsible for people behaving in a foolhardy way. "Mary" could have slipped in a bath tub and injured herself - does that mean you advise people never to bathe? And "John" could have turned his back on the ocean and drowned at a popular public beach. Does that mean you don't show him pictures of lovely beaches in Hawaii?
There is NOTHING wrong with telling people about "cool" and lovely places with potential dangers - the people you tell are responsible for how they handle themselves at these places.

Oh semiramis,
have you been to the site of the drownings to give a first hand opinion? I hadn't realized.

I've used their guidebooks---"the blue bibles"---to plan travel on all the major islands. There's some great stuff in there. But the books are not strong on safety advice. So it's probably helpful to consult other resources for this.

For Kauai, there is an excellent website that gives up to date ocean conditions and safety advice: http://www.kauaiexplorer.com/

And for all the islands, there's a website that serves as a forum and gateway to expert advice from lifeguards, rangers, and other safety personnel in Hawaii...

http://www.survivingparadisehawaii.com

Another probable drowning yesterday off sea cliffs near Hilo on Big Island. The man is missing.

http://starbulletin.com/2006/11/25/news/briefs.html

sistahlou,

Picture this: You invite your two best friends Mary and John over for dinner. On the way, they swerve to avoid a deer and slide into oncoming traffic. Is that your fault? Were you irresponsible to invite them over, knowing they'd have to face the dangers of operating a motor vehicle?

Point is, you can get seriously injured just about anywhere, and it's not the fault of the person who gave the recommendation. The guidebooks do stress that you're in nature -- not Disneyland -- and therefore there are lots of inherent risks. To be honest, the blue books left me with a healthy fear of the ocean currents there and convinced me NOT to visit the tidepools. People don't choose to visit these places for a lack of warning.

Really, anything more exciting than sitting on your couch involves some level of risk. It's up to people to be smart and gauge the risks vs the rewards. I personally wouldn't risk my safety for some decent scenery...but plenty of people would, and I can't blame them. Carpe diem

Karameli,

I had not realized that you have witnesseed firsthand, the dangers of Olivine Pools.

Some people go out of their way to help others and offer advice. Others have a f(*& em attitude.

I would love to invite you over for dinner, and am hoping that you are a pretty good driver.

Don't think I'll bother to mention to you that it is an unusually big deear season and due to overpopulation, there have been a number of fatal moter vehicle deaths. I won't bother to tell you to proceed with utmost caution. It is not my reesponsabiliteeee! Where having roadkill casserole - yum!!!

Sistahlou,

It's nice to see someone with a sense of humor on this board! I didn't go to Olivine as I was on the Big Island and Oahi, but we'd had a few BI tidepools on our to-see list and after reading about surges and rogue waves in the guidebooks we decided -- no thanks! We'll "settle" for soaking in K-Bay instead

Deer season -- tell me about it! Talk about giving enough warnings. You'd think the deer would pass on the info -- "The black asphalt is a lovely shortcut, but beware of rogue cars!"

karameli,

glad you can read my sense of humour! ...even when talking about things I feel passionately about.

Never take myself seriously, so I hate when others do....

Good times!
Oh the Deer jokes....why can I only remember the punch lines
No eye Deer
2 Bucks

a quick personal note chime-in.
When we were at the cliffs above the Olivine pools..
one day before a huuge earthquake, actually..
I said..oh oh pull over here.. here's where the book says the pools are. We got out of the car, and gingerly picked our way down the crumbling pali uplands..by the time we got near the edge, we were like.. NO f***in' way. That is an insane and, in my opinion, a very technically intense descent, which I don't recall being well related in the most recent edition of the B-book. I think the books are very helpful in many ways, but would definately urge the authors to fix this entry to warn those with fear of precipitous heights to put on their caution hats at the very least. For me, hiking around this part of Maui should be approached with much care with respect for this powerful elemental wilderness and all it's amazing history and energy.

OH and I'm with Kal ...please guidebook master..
tell folks not to throw gross stuff all over the place. These are small islands and I wish that more guides would encourage folks to learn where to put their recyclables..

Wow...I had no idea there was so much controversy about these books! We bought the Big Island book for our trip in February, and have planned many activities around some of the sights they have suggested. There were definitely sight that I thought we would have to make our best judgement on (especially ones that sounded either dangerous or if there was a possibility of tresspassing) but all in all I was thoroughly pleased with this book.

I will now have to rethink some of our stops...it's no different in HAwaii than in a foreign country- we would not want to offend the locals.

heymo,

It's pretty easy to spot the destinations that would be "offensive" to locals -- they come with advice such as "there will be a gate, but just open it" or "it's state property, no matter what anyone tells you" -- both of which I saw in the Oahu and BI books. But as far as going to potentially dangerous spots, I doubt that would offend the locals -- it's just your own personal risk. Again, any spots that mention surges and shorebreaks are potentially dangerous. It's pretty easy to tell, when you're reading the books, which destinations have some amount of iffiness to them.

In addition to karameli's advice, any spot where they advise you to evalauate the conditions before starting (swimming, hiking, whatever) is probably potentially dangerous. It's not easy to know what "danger" looks like without some experience in Hawaii's unique conditions.

Another problem is that the Hawaii Tourism Board doesn't want to treat visitors like adults. They falsely assume that any safety information is going to scare away tourists. Tourism is by far the biggest industry in Hawaii, bringing in $11.5 billion annually, and the state is hyper-protective of this. But that shouldn't mean that we can't visit our favorite vacation destination and not have the knowledge we need to avoid trouble.

It's like if you travel to Rome and have awareness that they have trouble with pickpockets there. You take precautions to avoid getting picked and you go there and have a great time. It should be the same way about ocean safety, lava hikes, and other situations in Hawaii.

I did read that either Hawaiian or Aloha Airlines is finally showing on their flights a water safety film produced by the Ocean Safety Division. Aloha also had some safety info in a recent in-flight magazine. The book link about two-thirds the way down in the article didn't work, but I found it on Amazon....

http://www.spiritofaloha.com/shorts/1106/shorts.html

Thanks for the info. I like to get off the beaten path... but I don't want to FALL off the beaten path!

Hawaiifanatic- the link you sent offer water safety tips for Kauai, is there a similar site for thr BI?

The Ocean Safety Division has specific beach safety info for Oahu, but I have not been able to find a site for the Big Island.

A good thing to remember when in Hawaii in winter is that sometimes the trade winds shift (they call it "Kona weather") so that the normally drier sides of the islands (leeward) not only get more rain, but also higher surf. I know someone who, as part of such a shift, got clobbered by a rogue wave on Hapuna Beach; fortunately she survived. The book reviewed in the Aloha Airlines magazine covers all of this.

People don't necessarily go somewhere DESPITE its having a dangerous reputation, they often go there BECAUSE it has a dangerous reputation. Consider why the phrase 'extreme sports' has risen to popularity. Something has to make the sport or activity seem 'extreme' and safe, responsible behaviour usually has little to do with it.

Like Rick Steves' "Europe Through the Back Door", my guess is that these books are intended to appeal to the travel snob that is hidden within us. We want to travel, not just to beautiful places, but to the beautiful places known but to an exclusive few. This is both natural (who of us doesn't love privacy, be they a traveller or a resident) and also a guarantee of disappointment. When nothing but the best will do, most of travel - or life - will come up short, since the law of averages will apply, no matter where we live or where we travel (and using whatever guidebook.)