We are thinking of taking our kids (4 and 12) to the Grand Canyon next fall. We haven't been there in years. Two questions,
1. The train ride from Williams. Worth it? Like it? Will kids enjoy it?
2. Where to stay? Are all the hotels run by Zanterra of decent quality? Splurge on El Tovar or is one of the other ones more kid friendly?
We will be driving there from Oregon, so have about 9 days total. We are going north to Zion after the Canyon. Any other must see sights?

Not sure where in Oregon you will be traveling from. I plugged in Seattle or Spokane and both are a good 3 day car trip to the Grand Canyon so 6 of your 9 days will be long days of driving.

Haven't done the train ride but be forwarned.... you DO NOT see the canyon from the train. Are you sure you want to spend 5 hours on a train after all that driving?

We camp, so I also can't help with lodging.

With a 4 year old, I doubt you will want to hike into the canyon very far...if at all. There are a lot of good paved trails along the rim and the free shuttle buses are always a hit with the kids. There are also Jr. Ranger programs.

Not sure what routes you are taking, coming and going, but from the Grand Canyon drive north on Hwy 89 to Page, AZ and my favorite lake, Lake Powell on the way to Zion. Zion is a great park to visit. Our boys loved it there.

If you want a little more scenic drive home, after Zion you might head up to Bryce Canyon National Park and from there take the very scenic hwy 12 up to Torrey, Utah. If you have time, nearby is Capitol Reef National Park. From there you can head over to I-15 and north to Salt Lake City to get home.

Utahtea

I would definitely stay at either Thunderbird or Kachina Lodges, rimside, right next to El Tovar, great location...you can eat at either El Tovar or Bright Angel...everything is kid friendly, there are so many families there year around. Don't stay anywhere but rimside if you can help it. Don't know anything about the train ride as we always drive in to GC....oh, another thing you and the kids might like is the IMAX theater before arriving at the canyon.

HAven't done the train ride.
We stayed at La Kachina. Very basic, much like a dorm-room. El Tovar was booked.
We ate in the El Tovar dining room one night. Food was okay, but it was a fun dinner.
My best advice... Keep very close tabs on your 4 year old. The rim walk has many spots where there are huge drops with no fence or railing to stop one from falling. Seriously, i don't mean to be grim, but many tourists have died falling into the canyon.

Oh, and we also stayed in the cabins at Bryce Canyon. Very cute/charming log cabins with fire place near the rim. That park is gorgeous, too.

The Grand Canyon rim is great for strollers if you want to bring one for the 4 year old.

Utahtea

Bright Angel cabins might work - they have 2 units per cabin - each with 2 beds and small bathroom. There is a connecting door between that can be opened if you rent both sides.

Please take seriously the advice about keeping eye on kids - it scared me half to death watching inattentive parents of curious preschoolers and younger - a mis-step in many places could be tragic.

The Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce are incredible - but do you really want to drive that far with kids this age?

As far as driving with kids this distance, we always went on road trips with our boys starting as early as 7 months old. We always drove anywhere from 2,000 to over 4,000 miles while our boys were 4 and younger. Some kids do fine...others don't. My grandson has driven from South Carolina to California and LOVED it at age 14 months, they drove home at age 15 months and again just one way at 23 months.

Utahtea

We took a long road trip when our kids were 9 and 12. LA through national parks in Utah, to Steamboat Colorado, to Santa Fe, to Grand Canyon and home. We were gone for a little over 2 weeks though. We all loved it.

Here are some kid tips:
1. Buy a US map of states and bring along small star stickers. Everytime they see a state's liscence plate, put a sticker on that state. We almost filled our whole map (even Alaska and HAwaii!)

2. Buy (or rent from your library) some good books on tape.

3. "Brainquest" makes a road trip game with trivia questions. Restoration Hardware has a great road trip BINGO game, where you look for things out the window.

4. Bring another map and highlighter and let them highlight how far you've gone.

that's all I remember now. good luck!

Thanks for all your replies. We are in Southern Oregon, so will probably cut across to Reno then Las Vegas before going to the canyon. We took our kids to Yellowstone in August 2004. It was a two day drive and the kids did great. Gameboy and books and coloring and running around stops. Our little one was only 2 1/2 then and she was a trouper. She walked a lot and we took a stroller, too. We will probably stay on the rim for two nights, then go up to Zion to stay. Most likely will go up to Salt Lake to go home. I will check out Capitol Reef.

Capitol Reef is beautiful, and has an old orchard planted by pioneers where you can pick fruit off the trees.
However, it would be a real shame to miss Bryce, and the road from Bryce to Capitol Reef is unlike any we've seen. (and we've had A LOT of gorgeous drives!) IMHO, you would not regret it.

Here is a great website on Southern Utah. Make sure you check out Hwy 12, Bryce and Capitol Reef. If you go to Capitol Reef you will pass right by Bryce (there is even a quick view point right on hwy 12) and hwy 12 is the most scenic route to Capitol Reef.

http://www.so-utah.com/

Utahtea

Don't know when Dina4 was last at Kachina, but its (and Thunderbird's) rooms were recently renovated and are very nice--I wish I'd had a dorm room like that when I was in school! Most of the rooms have 2 queen beds and work pretty well for families.

And it must have been quite a while since Gail was there. The Bright Angel cabins haven't had 2 beds in a long time. In fact there are only a very few 2-bedded rooms in Bright Angel at all. It doesn't work well for families. Even if you reserve two rooms they might not be in the same building. Same with El Tovar--very few 2-bed rooms and reserving more than 1 room doesn't mean you'll be on the same floor or wing, as there are only a one or a few of each type of room, and a type might be scattered through the building.

And it's not necessary to stay on the rim to enjoy your stay. Maswik Lodge is a short walk from the rim and the north section rooms are quite large. Yavapai Lodge east section rooms have also been recently renovated. Both lodges are in wooded areas, not far from the rim.

With such a small percentage of your time at your destination, the train might not be such a good idea, especially if you're heading north after you visit the south rim. To take the train you'd be leaving your car in Williams, 60 miles south of the south rim. The train takes about twice as much time as driving that distance. Then you'd be taking the train back to Williams, and then have to drive back up to the canyon anyway to continue on to the north--even if you detoured by way of Flagstaff, you'd still be basically driving back by the canyon to get to Zion.

By driving, you could stop with the kids at the Planes of Fame Museum, and Bedrock City/Flintstone Village half way between Williams and GC. The 12 year old might like the cool old planes, and the 4 year old might like the Flintstones.

Some websites: www.nps.gov/grca for GC, www.grandcanyonlodging.com for south rim hotels and www.zionlodge.com for Zion(Xanterra's own sites--you can book direct without any booking fees), www.planesoffame.org, http://djcenterprises.com/bedrock1.html.

Oh, and stop at Cameron on your way north. http://www.camerontradingpost.com

Hope this helps!

The train ride is neat, but like some of these folks have said, you don't see the canyon until you get to it. It's more an old West historic experience. The staff does a great job of making the ride fun with music, skits, etc., but it is a very LONG trip (2.25 hours each way - it's a steam engine). The Travel Channel JUST had a show about National Park Trains, which featured the GCRy, so you may want to try and catch that.

Now, depending on how patient your 4-year-old is, a trip you may enjoy is the Wilderness River Adventures' Half Day Colorado River Float Trip. It departs from Page, Arizona (Lake Powell), which is on your way to Zion. It lasts about 4.5 hours. There are no rapids on that particular stretch of river and there is no strenuous walking involved. But, if your little one is really "active," then I'd save that for your next visit.

Good recommendation by gcmaven on the Cameron Trading Post! The Navajo Tacos rule!

I would definitely recommend the Kachina Lodge--when we were there 18 months ago it was renovated and more like an upscale Holiday Inn. And views to die for if you ask to be on the second floor.

I would strongly urge you to fit Bryce into your trip. It's spectacular and was our favorite of GC/ZC/BC. Log cabins there are not luxurious but they are quaint.

I'll second the thoughts of those concerned about your 4 year olds safety. We were there when our kids were 7 and 10. I am a worry wart (at least I admit to it!) and was frightened for those people with children 5 and younger. There are quite a few spots right in front of Kachina and Bright Angel that have no fencing at all. It's particular scary at night--for kids and grown ups alike.

I would not worry about the hiking down into the canyon. We went down South Kaibab and I don't remember being frightened at all that my kids would fall over.

Fabulous trip--worth your drive!!

Regarding bedding at Bright Angel - we were there 2 summers ago and had both sides of a cabin. One side had one bed and the other had 2 beds. They were able to bring a roll-away to the side with only one bed.

ccrosner-
I"m a worry wart, too, by the way. How old were your kids when you hiked into the cabin, and how far did you go?
We want to do that hike down to the bottom, stay overnight, and hike back up. Not sure how long it will take and have heard it's really difficult.
Thanks,
Dina

We only hiked 1 1/2 miles down to a bathroom stop (can't remember the name of the spot) as our kids were 7 and 9 at the time. So many warnings about overdoing it kept us from going farther as we could see that it would be quite a trek before you would see anything that different (e.g. Colorado River). We started hiking at 6:30 a.m. and were up and out by 10:00 a.m. We found that it took us about as long to go up as it did to go down since we took lots of photos on the way down.

We, too, would like to do the hike down in and overnight but may do that when the kids are off in college. Too many other places for them to see first. You have to reserve the Phantom Ranch more than a year in advance, I hear.

Thanks for the info.
Our kids are 13 and 16 now, and thought it might be a good spring break trip. We live in Southern Calif.
Maybe in 2007, since you have to reserve a year in advance.