Marian

We are one of the Calif. casualties after owning a successful neighborhood tavern/sports bar for the past 25 years....business reduced 36% so we're calling it quits. We're interested in moving to an area and opening another similar business. We've learned our lesson the expensive way and won't do another venture unless it is in a town that allows smoking in bars. We'd like to be near a major city that has activities. Weather is a factor but not the most important (would I say the same thing in January??)We're very open to suggestions....home price wise we'd like to buy a home less than $350,000. Thanks for your help. Marian

LVLarry

I would suggest Nevada simply becasue they probably have the most lax smoking laws. The Las Vegas area is pretty good with pretty cheap housing costs, growing economy and low taxes. I doubt that they will enact any strict laws regarding smoking.

Tom

Marian, so sorry to hear of your fate due to no fault of your own. As mentioned by the previous respondent and for similar reasons, perhaps somewhere in New Jersey might be another option (i.e. Atlantic City is probably smoker-friendly). I can not speak from personal experience, only speculation. I can't imagine any other states going so far as California's overly-extreme no smoking in Bars policy even if California is a front-runner for most everything...but then again, what do I know! Good luck in making your decision.

Christie

I'm from Texas, and it is definitely NOT a place that is smoker-friendly. I don't smoke, and many ofthe restaurants here are totally smoke free.

When I traveled to the South (Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Carolinas, Virginia) earlier this year, I was shocked at how many smokers there were compared to home. My companions and I agreed that basically anywhere tobacco is grown, there will be more smokers.

bob

The perfect place is North Carolina. They grow tabacco all over the place. They have never heard of no smoking sections anywhere. People smoke in the grocery stores and flick ashes all over the fresh produce. Patients in the hospital chew all the time and spit in cups. It is tabacco heaven.
Drinking on the other hand is cursed. There are dry counties, beer/wine counties, membership only clubs to serve liquor, restricted Sunday sales etc.
North Carolina - a fine place to smoke but not drink!

Jill

This message is in response to Bob's suggestion...why would you recommend to a Bar Owner opening a bar in a state that as you described is adverse to drinking??? I don't understand your point. Let's try and be helpful to each other.

Scotty

Here we have a commercial predator (barkeep) who wants to help addicts (smokers) commit suicide and is looking for a new place to set up shop (a bar).
Dr. Kevorkian, at least, helps people leave this world free of pain. This person only wants to make more bucks and doesn't mind spending ($350,000) for housing. If it were mine to do, I would give her free housing -- in prison.

matt hale

Hear hear!
Any well adjusted American should realize that unhealthy lifestyles are not to be taken lightly. They just cost the rest of us taxpayers money in the end. Heck, here in Mayberry where I live, we banned potato chips and ice cream back in the 80's.

julie

marian-

i too think vegas would be a good choice (if you stayed away from the competition of the strip and catered to the local scene), as would the carolinas, virginia, georgia, maybe tennessee or kentucky. bob and christie are right, these tobacco strongholds have the most relaxed restrictions i've seen anywhere and will probably be the last to change their ways. these states do tend to have some kooky alcohol restrictions, but drinking is still alive and well...it may just take careful investigation to choose your location wisely - which i'm sure as business owners you would do anyway.

please disregard scotty and matt, who should perhaps take the time to read the "if you don't have anything nice to say..." post.

good luck in your new venture!

Donna

Gee, everybody hops in an automobile and travels the roads, full of other automobiles and diesel trucks producing huge quantities of carbon monoxide. This is surely a much more serious detriment to everyone's health than cigarette smoke. Not to mention the fumes emitted by various manufacturing plants. In answer to the question, though, here in Southern NH, the bar and restaurant business is booming and (so far) the restaurants still have smoking sections and bars are lined with ashtrays. I'm not sure how well you'd like the climate after living in California (we love all four seasons).

sheron

may I suggest Hell? See the handwriting on the wall. The fool with the comment about car exhaust can go with you. You must have had a pretty sleazy clientele. I haven't met anyone in years that actually smoked except for hired help.

dan woodlief

Although I abhor smoking, and I wish my state would do more to prevent smoking in public, I will help you anyway, since you are talking about a bar. North Carolina is indeed a smoker-friendly state, and yes shockingly so, when I moved back here from Wisconsin. Most counties are not friendly toward drinking, as stated above. However, Chapel Hill and Raleigh would be two major exceptions. One is an affluent college town, and the other is of course the capital and a college city as well. The whole Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area is one of the fastest growing in the country. Charlotte might be another possibility.

wendy

I go to sports bars and clubs MORE now that smoking is not allowed. I'm surprised that your business dropped.

April

I am baffled by Sheron's comments that seem to be negative about smoking but not car exhaust. ?

The invention of the automobile must rank as one of the worst inventions ever as far as health and the planet is concerned.

My husband and I just returned from Vancouver BC and marvelled at the insanity of all those cars - bumper to bumper, side by side, rushing day and night, going, going, going... where? Looking out our hotel window at 11:00 pm on a Thursday and there is a steady stream of cars inching along trying to get out of town. Midnight and the scene is the same. Often a blanket of smog hangs over the city and the whole valley. People live in this. Unhealthy but not too many will give up their cars.

merriem

Well, I have the perfect place for you. I live in the Ozarks, close to Branson. Everyone smokes, and I have a great house for sale in your price range!

Dawn

First of all, I am amazed at some of the idiotic replies you rec'd that hammered you on the smoking and drinking request. If you are looking for an artsy, cultered place to open up a bar/tavern, in a town where $ is no object, I would recommend Upper Montclair, NJ. Why? It's 15 miles from NYC, has 2 train station hubs on both ends of the town and is easily accesible by bus too! It is a town where the arts and ethnicity is celebrated. It's a town filled with some serious "old money." Just take a drive down Upper Mountain Ave to gawk at some of the estates and you'll see what I mean. Yoga Berra, Olympia Dukakis, Soap Opera stars, writers and artists all have homes there. As for housing prices...well, you might be able to find one for $350k, but it won't be big or will require work. The taxes are high too! P.S. Montclair State University is down the road. Good luck!

William

Marian, I too didn't realize how many rude people participated in this forum. I think you had a very sincere question considering your business. Another suggestion that would keep you west is around Reno Nevada...you'd be close to Lake Tahoe which is truly God's Country with natural beauty. I visited there and hated to leave.
P.S. My father owned a very successful bar in downtown Chicago that catered to fun loving professionals and of course tourist as well. I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE to some of the idiotic responses you received that drinking and bars (especially sports bars)and smoking do seem to have a strong correlation. There are many of us that don't consider ourselves smokers but when we go into a bar for a few drinks a cigarette taste GREAT!

Roger

I'd rethink moving from California. The last time I was in California I went to a bar in the LA area and it was booming....even though smoking was not allowed. Sooner or later everywhere in the US will have restrictions on smoking...even in NC. Adapt to the change. After all almost all of Corporate America has banned smoking in the work place and they don't seem to have too much trouble getting smokers to come work for them.

LVLarry

Marian:

Don't pay any attention to the jerks and their very rude comments, These are very childish intolerant people that don't have a life of their own so they want to ruin others lives.

I would still stand by Las Vegas as the best choice. This is based on their liberal laws, economy, low cost of living, climate and you are still in the west.

Liz

Bottom line is that smoking is legalin most states and most bars. Come to NYC you guys - can't smoke in restaurants but the bars are bopping. As to the person who insulted all hired help by saying those are the only people she/he met who smoked - my goodness what white collar snobbery. All the smokers I know are doctors, lawyers, bankers etc. We know it is bad for us but it is still legal.