I hope Dubya fumigated the White House after the white trash filth that inhabited the Oval Office for 8 years.

Don't ya'll just love the piety of these Republican fellas? Ya'll don't really wanna get into comparing sex scandals, do ya? How about J Edgar Hoover for starters. Yuck.

W's gonna have to EARN his respect the old-fashioned way. By being a decent human being.

Where has Uncle Sam been the past eight years? Probably hiding out in his vault counting his loot and defying Government from taking it. Now, he is probably hoping that Dubya will somehow manage to get tax relief to people of his ilk so that they can then show that they're caring and decent by trickling it down to the masses. Very reminiscent of Marie Antoinette's "Let them eat cake!"

Can someone please explain to me why this travel forum needs to be used as a political soapbox? Scrolling down these postings only serves to remind me of just how polarized we are in our political ideologies. I don't decry the right to have these types of back and forth, but why here??!!

Media, Please, re-read the facts behind my figures. They are for Hillsborough County ONLY. Each county is being counted separately and results reported for each. Orlando Sentinel reported figures for ONE COUNTY only as well, not for the state, believe it or not. You saw what you wanted to see, and had you read it more carefully, you'd have realized you were not reading figures for the state of FL, as much as you'd have liked that to be the case! Figures given previously by Diane were for Miami-Dade ONLY and they are accurate. The recount of the entire state has not yet been completed. Certain newspapers took it upon themselves to count their counties. I have no idea if recounts are being conducted in every county at this point.

Each county involved in the current count is setting it's own standards and charging their papers what they see fit. Hillsborough charged the Tampa Tribune $58.12/hr, Broward charged thier paper $300/hr. In Hillsborough, there is no category that shows whether there was any pattern to voting, ie, if there is a dimple it's counted as a dimple on that ballot, and no indication as to whether or not the entire ballot was dimpled...or any other portion of it was.

There was a deadline for the FL electoral votes to be in place...Dec 16 or 18, forget now which. It was not Jan 6. State law, Chick-a-dee, state law...that's why the legislature was set to act--it was that or face the prospect of losing our vote altogether!

Hillsborough County alone had 5,533 under votes, 1/4 of the state total. Even after the media hand recount, we still have 3,655 ballots with virtually no vote what-so-ever, no dimple, pin prick, or any corner of any chad detached, and we are one county out of 57. Face it, plenty of people went into the election disliking every choice......so none was made. Lets hone those observations skills, Media, before you report!

Ah yes, the dignity of middle-aged alcohol abuse, the honor of multiple arrests, the glory of illegal cocaine use! The spectacularly less-than-mediocre academic performance and business career, and the short yet well-financed political career! Now that's the glory of American politics! Any incompetent underachiever can buy his way into the office of the Presidency, it all depends on who you know and how many government "servants" your father appointed.

Well, mighty Rome was once a republic too, then came the emperors. Deja vu.

Olive. My point exactly. The results aren't in for the whole state. What about the Lake County overvotes with clear writer intent, though? How does that stack up to your analysis?

It was really way way to close to call.

Oh yes, the deadline argument. Back to the talking points.

Of course, Florida state law sets it at one of the two, in order not to have its electoral slate contested. But there is another, higher Constitutional authority: the U.S. Constitution. And our country used that procedure as recently as 1960, with no civil unrest and with an orderly transition of power.

A fair count would have eliminated the cloud of doubt which will forever attach to this administration. The U.S. Constitution would have pre-empted state law, had the 5 Supreme Court Justices (and supposed constructionists) not pre-empted the Constitution. And as states' rights advocates, the 5 didn't do the Florida Supreme Court any favors either, did they? Are you really suggesting that Jeb and Katherine were impartial? I think it's you that's only seeing what YOU want to see.

Don't just take my word for it. There is sufficient outrage within the legal community, based on the fatuous Supreme's opinion totally devoid of any legal precedent, and remarkably hypocritical in its purported 14th Amendment review.

The results of the impartial count will eventually come out. Florida's electors should have gone to the popular vote winner in Florida. And our legal system should have upheld the most fundamental right of a democracy. The fact that the Rhenquist 5 did not and cared not has undermined our entire system of justice.

Like all political leaders, George Bush will be judged by his actions in office. Fine sentiments such as those on offer at his weekend inauguration as 43rd US president, like those expressed in the campaign, are mere words.

If it is any guide, his progress so far during his transition to the Oval office has been littered with misjudgments. In tacit recognition perhaps of his own inexperience, he has surrounded himself with old hands who date back to the Ford administration. But these appointments do not sit well with his Philadelphia commitment to a "new era". He has recruited heavy-hitting soloists like Colin Powell at the state department and Donald Rumsfeld at defence. But these two powerful personalities may prove hard to control and will test his unquantified leadership skills.

The political complexion of the Bush cabinet also suggests a lack of understanding, or else a deliberate decision to ignore what happened last November. Mr Bush has no clear popular mandate; the very legitimacy of his victory remains in question. Yet in selecting a largely rightwing team including the likes of John Ashcroft as attorney general, he has tilted away, sharply and unwisely, from the centre ground where most Americans live. So much for those other fine words about "compassionate conservatism", "healing the nation", and "bipartisanship". More worrying is the thought that he may actually be unaware of the contradiction. Perhaps he simply did what that savvy old hawk and new White House godfather, Vice-President Dick Cheney, told him to - and then took a break for his favourite video game.

I'm 38 and I don't think there's been a good president in my lifetime: Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton -- all bad. Hope springs eternal, right?

My vote for Bush was mostly to be anti-Gore. Favorite part of the inaugeration was the look on Cheney's face as he was sworn in -- pure radiance.

Media,

On 1/21 you wrote: "I have to disagree w/Olive and with our slightly overwrought Mr.xxx. I recall th that in late December, an Orlando Sentinel article said that Bush was ahead by 1 vote if you did not count dimples. I think that's where Olive may be getting her numbers".

My reply to your post was only to point out that was NOT where I was getting my numbers. My numbers came from the Tampa Tribune article publishing the results of the recount for Hillsborough County, a recount paid for and conducted by them. I live in Tampa. I was reporting our paper's results. I was replying initially to Diane who asked: "Can anyone in Florida who is reading the local papers inform us of any results?"

So...what about Lake County and the Orlando Sentinel? I'm not addressing that recount...and they weren't addressing ours. I haven't seen their figures, only heard what everyone else has. What's your point?

Constitution? Supreme Ct? Katharine Harris? Where did you read anything even remotely referring to any of that in my note? I wrote about the recount figures for our county and the handling of the ballots generally. That's it with the exception of addressing your mis-information on the date set by our state for the electors. The rest is yours and I'm not getting into that debate on this board!

It's over. Give it a rest! There isn't anything more I can say that hasn't been said ad nauseum, or you either! Each side must know they aren't going to change even one mind of those standing on the other side of the fence.

Saw a bumper sticker the other day that was awesome! Something to the effect of when religion and politiics got mixed, people were burned at the stake!

Looks like the McCarthy era will be back in the guise of the so-called christian coalition.

Every last one of you is a complete jackass. God is dead. Politicians are lying jerks. And you people are playing into them like they have all the answers. Can't you people come up with someone or something better to look up to?

I've heard of these right-wing zealots that designed the system under which Bush won - their names are Jefferson, Madison, etc.

Why doesn't the US switch over to electronic voting with PIN numbers, with real-time summaries of vote totals by county (to be compared with historical data). This would offer several advantages over the 2000 process, of which Flordia, of course, is the most visible example - ease of voting, a means to confirm that one's vote is counted, and readily available comparisons with prior voting trends to pinpoint possibly suspicious results. I don't suggest my idea is without flaws, but my underlying thoughts are that the US is capable of developing a new, standard system (better than the myraid approaches we now witness), and the belief we will never settle the Florida debate. To the degree the outcome debate rages on, we'll fail to catch up with what the new Administration is doing. I see the Post says that abortion is first up on the agenda this morning. Saturday and Sunday, the new folks said it would be education. Now, abortion is a wonderful unifying issue to start off with on the 22nd. Why does Saturday's speech now feel a long way off? Is this going to be an enlightened administration? Or is it just the same old Repo BS from the 70's and 80's? I really am hoping W. breaks the mould - it's the best way to be successful in what will probably be only one term. Ciao

Hi, Olive. Nice to see you are back.

As for me, I've decided that things really aren't that bad with W in the White House. We had an election with two truly dreadful candidates. Had Gore won, I'd have to listen to his voice EVERY SINGLE DAY. That's a lot to ask, even of a lifelong Democrat.

So I've decided to look ahead. We have a split Senate with two really old, frail Republican senators. The Senate ought to beat back some of Bush's really dreadful proposals. Bush wants to give me a big tax cut and leave poor people and middle class people to struggle financially. OK. Whatever.

But best of all, in four years, the Democrats get to field a new, fresh face while the Republicans are stuck with George trying to explain why the recession is all Bill's fault. That's not so bad.

I do have some residual bitterness, though. I'm still a little ticked with the Nader voters. What were they thinking? They were supposed to be the "Green" party, committed to protecting the environment. They left Al high and dry, so now we're going to have drilling in wilderness areas and the polar cap, for God's sake. One of Bush's first executive orders was to roll back air quality regulations and animal waste disposal regulations. Yippee! More foul air and water for the kiddies!

Anyway, I've enjoyed your posts. Take care.

NEWS:
Clinton pardons over 100!

Did you see that the Fodors Travel Talk Editors and web site masters were pardoned by Clinton? What an outrage! We forgive politicians because they are politicians, but don't mess with our travel talk.

There are so, so many boring comments on this site. Bashing both W. and Al - bashing Clinton - all the bums are terrible - the world is now going to hell - talk about Jesse and Strom dying - and how could Nader dare run, as though he lost it for Al. Ralph is an egomaniac - talk with anyone who has ever worked with him. Why wouldn't he run - he's in his 60's and running out of gas. Can someone please say something original - or hopeful. Or perhaps we ought to get back to travel. Maybe I'm just naive. But this stuff is just plain boring - old, old news. YAWN.

Wish I'd turned back.

Dear Uncle Sam:

This is how I finally track you down? On a travel site? Where the hell are you? Mother is worried sick. YOUR SISTER BETTY-- REMEMBER HER? You ungrateful lazy piece of crap. Why I'm writing to you I have no idea since I despise the mere thought of your fat presence, but I thought I might persuade you to at least have the decency to CALL YOUR SISTER! When you took off last week after dinner without even finishing your apple cobbler, I knew something was up--in my whole life you haven't left the table without seconds of dessert. Then when I looked in my drawer and found fifty dollars and all my pot missing, I knew--I KNEW--you had "disappeared." AGAIN! You lousy bum. If my dad were still alive he'd kick yor sorry butt halfway to Knoxville, but Mother is too nice for that. "Uncle Sam has issues," she says. BULL! Uncle Sam is a good-for-nothing leech who won't even go down to Wal-Mart to get a decent job. Or maybe that would be setting your sights too high, you jerk. They probably wouldn't even let you pass out the carts to the customers. Anyway, Uncle Sam--or should I say UNCLE SLOB--give your sister a call because she's been crying for three days. And when you show up, you'd better have fifty bucks and a half-bag of weed, because if you don't I'll put ants under your sheets after you start snoring.

Your EX-Nephew, Tony

P.S. YOU SUCK