Annabelle 2007

I completely understand and empathize with your question. I have a terrible terrible TERRIBLE fear of flying. I use to fly all the time, nothing bad happened, but one day it just came over me.

I didn't fly for 6 years. Missed weddings, free trips, graduations, parties, visiting old friends. I tried to go to Washington state 2 years ago -- had a massive panic attack and actually yelled stop as they were closing the door to the plane. They had to stop the beginning of taxing so they could take me off the manifest. I never made that flight. And then I got sick of it and got help through an awseome web site.

www.fearofflying.com/

If you are to that point and want to work on this -- I cannot recommend this site enough. It is run by Capt. Tom who was a pilot for 30 years. Now he is a therapist running the site and the forum and seeing patients.

I never have met him but he helped me get on a plane last year from St. Louis to Florida to visit a friend of mine. And I am going to Mexico next week.

He has tapes you can order -- I highly recommend his dealing w/anxiety series. He had dvd's, mp3s, videos. There is a forum where people ask all sort of crazy questions and he's so kind. It's also visited by other pilots and airline folks. He also runs a live chat session on Wednesday nights. It's really helpful. Oh he also sends you a letter to give to t he gate people to let you meet the pilot -- that is the most helpful thing. Oh and the best thing -- he has a number you can call him up and talk to him before you fly. He's just so devoted.

I understand you may not be ready yet. And yes, I'm still a semi nervous flier. But from one fearful gal to another -- I just want to throw this out to you b/c there is help available.

Let's look at actual numbers.

AMTRAK - Empire Builder connecting to Lakeshore Limited. About 72 hours. $154 one-way in coach. Cheapest sleeper is about $1,251 for two people sharing, or $625 per person. One-way.

Greyhound takes 74 hours. $208 one-way. Clearly, it's worse than AMTRAK.

If you go through Canada, AMTRAK Seattle to Vancouver is $28 in coach seat. VIA Vancouver to Toronto takes about 72 hours. Cheapest seat can be C$596! Sleeper goes from C$1,300 and up! Single person, one-way.

Even the Toronto-NYC trip is up to C$122 per person, another whole day.

You do the maths. Add a night of hotel in Toronto too.

If you drive, it's 2,800 miles one-way. Say your car gets 28mpg, you're using 100 gallons. Or about $300. It'll take about 5 days, so 4 nights of hotel. $80 each, so another $320. That's for both of you, assuming two traveling. There's also some depreciation on the car. 6,000 mile roundtrip. Assuming you expect your car to go 180,000 miles in its lifetime, you're using up 1/30 of it. And an oil change, plus fraction of maintenance.

I used to be afraid to fly, but did it anyway when I had to. Then after 9/11 I wasn't going to fly ever again.
Then I felt a strong desire to go to Hawaii. I just kept reading about Hawaii and vacations others took. I wanted to go so bad I just decided to be a person that isn't afraid to fly. I'm always a little nervous before a flight, but I listen to my 6th sense and just know everything will be ok. Plus I take a valium and a little teeny glass of wine.
Amtrak is pretty difficult for more than a night or 2. It's even harder for men, those berths, even the big ones are tiny. I know we took it to New Orleans from California. It is fun though, at times, and should be done once in your life.
This may not help you, but it's my 2 cents.

rrkwan, I just love your post. Wow, i'll be sure to look for you when I want cost breakdown of trips! it's brilliant! I never have enough patience for that....look for my posts in the future. I'll be looking for you!

rrkwan is the go to guy! He is so knowledgable and helpful. He's a really nice guy too, to boot!! \/

The only thing you have to fear is fear itslf...and a little XANAX will get rid of the fear.

OK, rkkwan, as usual, has given you some very good numbers to look at. The personal decision and your thoughts about flying are something we really can't answer for you. I understand your fear very well. Been there, done that. It seems to run in my family.

If you want some alternatives, the option of taking VIA's "Canadian" train from Vancouver to Toronto is your best one IMO. You can then take the bus or Amtrak from there to where you to need to on the east coast. Amtrak's Northeast Corridor is much better than it's long distance trains. We've taken The Canadian several times and, frankly, think its a really nice trip. Well run, good food, nice staff, relaxing, and easy to sleep in the sleeping cars.

Good luck with your choices.

Interesting how Annabell hasn't responded to any of the responses to her question.

The nights spent on the road will be spent somewhere, probably at more expensive lodgings if one flies. I'd disregard lodging expenses for fly v. drive, and I'd take a nominal deduction from the sleeper supplement for rail trips, in order to keep apples and oranges straight.

rrkwan rocks!

Just a few comments on train travel. I've always wanted to go cross country on Amtrak but have reservations after other's experiences. Years ago my parents went on the train from Denver to Salt Lake City. Parents allowed their children to run up and down the aisles yelling. It was very uncmfortable for him since he wore hearing aids and couldn't hear anything if he removed them. Friends of ours went from Salt Lake City to New Hampshire last summer. They said they'd never do it again. Why? Noisy kids, shabby train cars, not real good air conditioning, etc. Then you have the high fares.

How one calculates the cost difference really depends on the nature of the trip. I mean, it sounds like the OP needs to be on the E. Coast for 3 weeks. So, to drive instead of flying, she'll need to leave earlier and return later. The motel costs during the trip is part of the transportation means, and not part of the E. Coast expense.

Now, if someone has a 3-week vacation, and sees the roadtrip as part of the vacation experience, then the accommodation costs should be counted as with the overall expense, and not part of transportation.

Again, that's how I'd see it. It depends on the nature and situation.

Annabelle? Are you there? I do think several posts were inhospitable to her (esp. the ones now gone) -- apologies to you.

The suggestion to take the Canadian train is an excellent one, if you can afford it. September could be just gorgeous. Find out in which direction (going east or going west) you go through the Rockies by daylight and then either try flying back (so you know you have home at the end of the flight) or renting a really comfortable car.

Yes,soccr,I'm here.My mom had some health problems,so I had to be with her and that's why I didn't have time to read and reply.
I'd like to thank all those who took my question seriously and took the time to reply and give some very good advice.I appreciate your kind words of encouragement as I do all the financial advice.
Thank you all again!

Many years ago, I took Greyhound from Seattle to NYC, and more recently I took Amtrak. I liked Greyhound better, but I was a lot younger.

Considering everything, air travel is cheaper and it is definitely safer. Perhaps your doctor will give you something to calm your nerves so that you can join the rest of us who would not fly except that there is no other good alternative.

Just throwing this out there -- a lot of fear of flying programs actually suggest that you DON'T take meds to calm your nerves.

Mostly b/c:
1. If anything did happen, you have a greater chance of being hurt b/c you could be sleeping and not following directions or not fully alert.

2. Most fear of flying is a deep seated issue -- and meds don't treat that, only mask it. And the best thing to learn is relaxation techniques to prevent anticipatory anxiety.

tmontauk,you are absolutely right about taking pills and not being alert should something go wrong.My fear of flying is mainly a result of the horrific events of 9/11.Before that I had no problem flying.I wasn't too fond of it,but I did it.Since then,I flew once,about two years ago,also to the east coast.The flight there was ok,but the flight back was a nightmare,a lot of turbulence due to bad weather(and this was in June!!)the pilot had to change course because of that.My husband has no problem flying,my sons have no problem flying,it's just me and I feel so bad and so frustrated that I can't just get over this stupid fear.And when I read about something that happened with a plane in the news,like today(smoke in cockpit forced emergency landing)it makes it even worse ....

Annabelle, you ask "what's the best and most economical way" to travel and then reject our suggestions.

If you don't want to drive and you don't want to take an airplane, a bus, or a train, you will have to walk.

If you, as somebody suggested, "suck it up" and fly, skip the drugs, pick an airline you trust, swallow, grit your teeth, pray, put on comfortable clothes, and do what everybody else does when flying is the only reasonable alternative.

Drink lots of water and juice--no alcohol or coffee.

On recent Delta flights from SEA to JFK I had a little TV set in front of me to watch movies, play trivia with other passengers, etc. The time passed quickly.

HTTY, Annabelle has come back to this thread twice since the original post: she has thanked everyone for their replies, and she has talked a little about her difficulty flying and said she is frustrated that she is afraid. Nowhere do I see that she has rejected any advice.

Annabelle, I have no advice for you...personally I feel much safer in an airliner than I do in a car...but I wish you good luck with your problem.

I see some of you saying not to take meds because you won't be as alert in case of an emergency.

Actually, anti-anxiety drugs do not all make you impaired.

I live in Hawaii and I fly- a lot- but I am terrified of flying. Used to just buck it up, grip the arms of the seat ( or the person next to me) and cry my way through take off, landings, and bumpy patches. didn't drink because I wanted all my wits about me, so that I could be first off when (not IF) we crashed.

I discovered the drug Ativan and no longer have a problem. It keeps me from getting emotional...I may be aware that the weather is really bumpy, but I just can't seem to care about it! No grogginess either!