Follow Up to Getting My Make-Up Filled Carryon Through Security
Sep 21st, 2006, 07:27 PM
#41
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The unfortunate thing about the latest "security enhancement" is that it most strongly punishes the law-abiding, loyal, patriotic Republican vacationer who honestly believes that banning toothpaste, x-raying shoes, and standing in lengthy queues provides effective protection against the unspeakable Evil of which our Leaders constantly warn us.
They're the ones who will scrupulously obey the rules, putting anything less than completely solid in checked bags. If they're lucky, they'll spend a few hours of their vacations waiting in queues to check the bags and then to retrieve the bags from the carousel. If they're less lucky, their carefully-packed bags won't be on the carousel; or they'll be lighter than when they packed them thanks to the behind-the-scenes inspection process in which they placed pure and simple trust.
Meanwhile, selfish scofflaws will threaten countless lives by bringing highly dangerous toothpaste or mascara in their carry-ons. Most likely the highly effective TSA screening won't notice, and they'll be off the plane and on to their destinations while the law-abiding patriots are still standing in the throng awaiting some hint of whether their bag (and its contents) will arrive.
And among the selfish scofflaws could well be the next mass murderer who has to stifle his urge to laugh at how easily he got his weapons through the utterly useless "security."
They're the ones who will scrupulously obey the rules, putting anything less than completely solid in checked bags. If they're lucky, they'll spend a few hours of their vacations waiting in queues to check the bags and then to retrieve the bags from the carousel. If they're less lucky, their carefully-packed bags won't be on the carousel; or they'll be lighter than when they packed them thanks to the behind-the-scenes inspection process in which they placed pure and simple trust.
Meanwhile, selfish scofflaws will threaten countless lives by bringing highly dangerous toothpaste or mascara in their carry-ons. Most likely the highly effective TSA screening won't notice, and they'll be off the plane and on to their destinations while the law-abiding patriots are still standing in the throng awaiting some hint of whether their bag (and its contents) will arrive.
And among the selfish scofflaws could well be the next mass murderer who has to stifle his urge to laugh at how easily he got his weapons through the utterly useless "security."
Sep 22nd, 2006, 10:11 PM
#42
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I just had a hectic 2 weeks and pretty much just threw stuff into my suitcase and carry on, trying to be conscious of the tsa rules. my carry on went through x-ray twice and got inspected by an agent. well, i'm sitting here at the gate and.....lo and behold, I have some contraband that I forgot about in my rush! I'm not bragging and I didn't do it on purpose. so I guess it is not unbelievable that the op could get her mascara through. heck, I've got that too!
Sep 23rd, 2006, 06:31 AM
#44
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"law abiding, patriotic, loyal Republican?" I guess the rest of us are law breakers, unpatriotic, treasonous, disloyal? On behalf of the half of the country who doesn't vote your knee-jerk, goose-stepping way, including those of us who have served, as did our families, in the military for generations, I accept your apology.
Sep 23rd, 2006, 09:17 AM
#45
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Another spin on the complete lack of logic in banning things like questionably liquid substances from aircraft came in this week's column on Salon.com from "Ask the Pilot." Needless to say, current security regulations have been a constant theme of late. The author, Patrick Smith, an experience commercial pilot, makes a great point about confiscated goods such as water bottles and makeup:
"Before heading over to be frisked and wanded, I notice the man has taken my shaving cream and placed it on the floor with a small pile of similar contraband. You'll see this same thing at airports in America: heaps of shampoo, toothpaste, soap, bottled water, cups of coffee, jumbled into bins to await disposal. Logic would dictate this material needs to be carefully removed and destroyed. After all, it's potentially hazardous...So what happens to this stuff? Does the bomb squad come in every evening and cart it away in steel casks? Don't be ridiculous. It's hurled into the trash. The line of reasoning goes like this: We already know these items are harmless, but we're going to take them anyway. Later, after you leave, we will dump them down the drain.
Are you feeling safer?"
Another point in his article is that laptop computers are blithely allowed on board, even though it's well documented that defective batteries have burst into flames! Not that this is necessarily a terrorist ploy, but are you aware there have been a number of incidents where fires caused by lithium-ion batteries have started aboard commercial and cargo aircraft recently? Probably not, because no one has been injured because most of these flights were still on the ground or about to land.
For what it's worth, there's an online petition to "Restore Liberties at US Airports." I suppose there's the risk of being added to the "No Fly List" if you sign it (which is another completely and totally idiotic, probably unconstitutional method of making us feel safer! But we all know the US Constitution is only a quaint suggestion to this administration)
Since I'm sure my missives have been monitored, I'm probably now on this list, so I've got nothing to lose by signing it.
"Before heading over to be frisked and wanded, I notice the man has taken my shaving cream and placed it on the floor with a small pile of similar contraband. You'll see this same thing at airports in America: heaps of shampoo, toothpaste, soap, bottled water, cups of coffee, jumbled into bins to await disposal. Logic would dictate this material needs to be carefully removed and destroyed. After all, it's potentially hazardous...So what happens to this stuff? Does the bomb squad come in every evening and cart it away in steel casks? Don't be ridiculous. It's hurled into the trash. The line of reasoning goes like this: We already know these items are harmless, but we're going to take them anyway. Later, after you leave, we will dump them down the drain.
Are you feeling safer?"
Another point in his article is that laptop computers are blithely allowed on board, even though it's well documented that defective batteries have burst into flames! Not that this is necessarily a terrorist ploy, but are you aware there have been a number of incidents where fires caused by lithium-ion batteries have started aboard commercial and cargo aircraft recently? Probably not, because no one has been injured because most of these flights were still on the ground or about to land.
For what it's worth, there's an online petition to "Restore Liberties at US Airports." I suppose there's the risk of being added to the "No Fly List" if you sign it (which is another completely and totally idiotic, probably unconstitutional method of making us feel safer! But we all know the US Constitution is only a quaint suggestion to this administration)
Since I'm sure my missives have been monitored, I'm probably now on this list, so I've got nothing to lose by signing it.
Sep 23rd, 2006, 09:26 AM
#46
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This non-Republican but patriotic traveler (I guess it's now open to interpretation in this age if you could be both) did everything she could to abide by the rules on the return flight from Mexico yesterday.
It was the first time I've checked luggage in ages. Of course, AA lost my luggage and I'm waiting at home for it to be delivered (with all of my makeup). I looked at the link to the TSA prohibited list and realized that my straightener that I carried on is prohibited. That was a good faith mistake.
The ban has no real value in my opinion. 20 year old Mexican airport officials did a cursory search of my bags in Cancun airport yesterday. They did not discover my hair straightener. How are we more safe?
It was the first time I've checked luggage in ages. Of course, AA lost my luggage and I'm waiting at home for it to be delivered (with all of my makeup). I looked at the link to the TSA prohibited list and realized that my straightener that I carried on is prohibited. That was a good faith mistake.
The ban has no real value in my opinion. 20 year old Mexican airport officials did a cursory search of my bags in Cancun airport yesterday. They did not discover my hair straightener. How are we more safe?
Sep 23rd, 2006, 10:28 AM
#47
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Whether or not screening is helpful is endlessly debateable, but the issue of smuggling affects every future traveler. Each defiance simply leads to longer lines, waits and molestation. Some honest people are deeply upset having a stranger 'feel' them on public display. Yes fellow travelers, what I do today may well effect what will be done to you tomorrow.
Sep 23rd, 2006, 10:56 AM
#48
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This thread will go on and on UNLESS someone pipes up to defend the TSA. I did that on a thread in the Airlines section, and everyone jumped all over me. Eventually one person came on to support my position - and then the thread was frozen.
Interesting how the media (Random House in this case) will only allow one opinion to flourish.
Here's the thread I'm talking about:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...6&tid=34869031
Interesting how the media (Random House in this case) will only allow one opinion to flourish.
Here's the thread I'm talking about:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...6&tid=34869031
Sep 23rd, 2006, 12:50 PM
#49
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Bodi - I'm not quite sure how you reach this conclusion that "every defiance leads to longer lines," etc. If people aren't caught with forbidden "liquids," how does the TSA know that security has been breached?? Security lines returned to about normal wait times in the U.S. within days of the British incident - there are no more patdowns now than there ever were! Don't you think that many, many more people are smuggling dangerous items like chapsticks and hair gel aboard - people who never have dreamed of defying authority in their lives!
Joan - interesting thread (that Random House decided to freeze because they only support one opinion! LOL) Doesn't it occur to you that you're getting "jumped on" because your way of thinking isn't logical? To say that it's the TSA vigilence that has kept air travelers safe is simply not so! The TSA screens HAVE NEVER STOPPED ANYONE TRYING TO SMUGGLE EXPLOSIVES ABOARD AN AIRCRAFT! Wouldn't they love to, though! Don't you think the government would splash that all over the media for days and days? British police work foiled the purported plot for liquid explosive. The Shoe Bomber was an insane man who was easily subdued, but certainly got on the aircraft without any trouble.
I reiterate my earlier contention that true terrorists haven't chosen to use aircraft as their targets, not that our security measures have thwarted actual attempts. I believe they could do it at will, and not in the passenger cabin either. Therefore, the current prohibition of liquids is not logical and strictly a ploy to keep us all in fear and in line, just the way good sheep should be.
Joan - interesting thread (that Random House decided to freeze because they only support one opinion! LOL) Doesn't it occur to you that you're getting "jumped on" because your way of thinking isn't logical? To say that it's the TSA vigilence that has kept air travelers safe is simply not so! The TSA screens HAVE NEVER STOPPED ANYONE TRYING TO SMUGGLE EXPLOSIVES ABOARD AN AIRCRAFT! Wouldn't they love to, though! Don't you think the government would splash that all over the media for days and days? British police work foiled the purported plot for liquid explosive. The Shoe Bomber was an insane man who was easily subdued, but certainly got on the aircraft without any trouble.
I reiterate my earlier contention that true terrorists haven't chosen to use aircraft as their targets, not that our security measures have thwarted actual attempts. I believe they could do it at will, and not in the passenger cabin either. Therefore, the current prohibition of liquids is not logical and strictly a ploy to keep us all in fear and in line, just the way good sheep should be.
Sep 23rd, 2006, 04:34 PM
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"Whether or not screening is helpful is endlessly debateable"
I'm sorry tekwriter, I misunderstood the title of your thread, thinking it was about "Getting My Make-Up Filled Carryon Through Security.
Please don't hate me because I'm not Beautiful.
I'm sorry tekwriter, I misunderstood the title of your thread, thinking it was about "Getting My Make-Up Filled Carryon Through Security.
Please don't hate me because I'm not Beautiful.
another reason people should fly nude, and no Immodium before boarding please!
Sep 23rd, 2006, 07:24 PM
#54
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I think it's the irrationality of the whole thing that is mind-boggling. The people who are being searched the most carefully right now are the flight crews - because they generally do not check their bags and have very quick turnarounds, they are likely to have stuff like toothpaste (mind you, a pilot who wants to crash a plane doesn't need toothpaste to accomplish that feat) and families with small children because they are most likely to want to bring the items that will comfort their children (like juice boxes) and to simply forget that they have contraband items like Purell and diaper cream tossed in the bottom of every bag they own.
The screeners are so focused on those two groups and on looking for contraband shampoo that the larger picture is entirely lost - flight crews and families travelling with young kids are not likely to be terrorists (and if they are, they are not likely to be caught by the TSA just because someone looked in their carry-ons). Meanwhile the press regularly reports that screeners miss legitimately dangerous stuff all the time - whether in TSA sanctioned tests or when someone notifies a media outlet that they forgot they had a chef's knife in the bottom of their carryon and went right through security with it somewhere.
While all of this is still going on, less than half the cargo on planes is ever looked at, port security is a joke and lithium-polymer batteries, which are known to spontaneously combust are acceptable as carry-on items (most of us who use them, however, are aware of this hazard and know to check them periodically and make sure they aren't overheating).
And while I am on the subject of irrational - can anyone explain the logic in permitting KY jelly to be carried on, but forbidding diaper ointment (yes, I have a two year old who is not quite toilet trained)?
The screeners are so focused on those two groups and on looking for contraband shampoo that the larger picture is entirely lost - flight crews and families travelling with young kids are not likely to be terrorists (and if they are, they are not likely to be caught by the TSA just because someone looked in their carry-ons). Meanwhile the press regularly reports that screeners miss legitimately dangerous stuff all the time - whether in TSA sanctioned tests or when someone notifies a media outlet that they forgot they had a chef's knife in the bottom of their carryon and went right through security with it somewhere.
While all of this is still going on, less than half the cargo on planes is ever looked at, port security is a joke and lithium-polymer batteries, which are known to spontaneously combust are acceptable as carry-on items (most of us who use them, however, are aware of this hazard and know to check them periodically and make sure they aren't overheating).
And while I am on the subject of irrational - can anyone explain the logic in permitting KY jelly to be carried on, but forbidding diaper ointment (yes, I have a two year old who is not quite toilet trained)?
Sep 23rd, 2006, 11:03 PM
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sylvia3, I do hope you realize that my reference to "law-abiding, loyal, patriotic Republican[s]" is more than a little sarcastic. However, I can understand why might assume that I am one of those "knee-jerk goose-steppers" because our Leader does appear to believe that only members of his party can be law-abiding, loyal, and patriotic. Any criticism of him or his policies constitutes is now by definition disloyal, unpatriotic, and possibly treasonous.
That said, I think tekwriter and bgans have neatly summarized the problem. Anyone with open eyes and half a brain can immediately realize the obvious irrationality and stupidity of the current approach to airport "security." The TSA's failure to handle confiscated toothpaste, shampoo, and water as hazardous material merely proves the point that we're paying a higher price in inconvenience with no reason to believe it provides any added safety. It was a knee-jerk reaction to the London plot, despite the fact that the threat of liquid explosives has been known for years but completely ignored until now. The jerking knee kicks indiscriminately.
There are people who genuinely are suffering because of the liquid ban, including those who have autoimmune diseases or cancer treatment that leaves them unable to produce tears or swallow without appropriate artificial liquids. Yet the TSA makes no exceptions for them, under the guise of "security" (this was in the New York Times last week). However, someone who needs "personal lubricant" can bring that aboard (provided the screener is aware that it's allowed).
The people who manage to smuggle dangerous lip gloss or eye drops recognize that the liquid ban is utterly stupid, irrational, and worthless. They don't play along with the pretense that it is anything else. Those who scrupulously adhere to it (and suffer the consequences of lost, damaged, or stolen checked bags) are only handing the terrorists a victory.
The only benefit the "enhanced security" will provide is a false sense of safety for those simple-minded folk who believe our Leader's claims that we're safer (though of course not yet safe). They're the ones who eagerly surrender their liberties on command and goose-step in perfect synchrony whenever the Leader plays "patriotic" music. That's what our country is coming to.
Perhaps the thing we can do is write to the elected officials who (supposedly) represent us. Let them know we're very aware that the whole thing is stupid and that it's punishing innocent people without making anyone any safer. That probably won't do any good, since our Congress is full of cowards who won't even consider speaking out against what the Leader does in the name of "security" no matter how stupid and even counterproductive it is. But perhaps if enough people let them know that they recognize the stupidity for what it is, they might be goaded into action.
The best thing we can do, of course, is to avoid flying. The liquid ban is just the latest of a great many indignities and discomforts that are now synonymous with air travel. Who needs that?
That said, I think tekwriter and bgans have neatly summarized the problem. Anyone with open eyes and half a brain can immediately realize the obvious irrationality and stupidity of the current approach to airport "security." The TSA's failure to handle confiscated toothpaste, shampoo, and water as hazardous material merely proves the point that we're paying a higher price in inconvenience with no reason to believe it provides any added safety. It was a knee-jerk reaction to the London plot, despite the fact that the threat of liquid explosives has been known for years but completely ignored until now. The jerking knee kicks indiscriminately.
There are people who genuinely are suffering because of the liquid ban, including those who have autoimmune diseases or cancer treatment that leaves them unable to produce tears or swallow without appropriate artificial liquids. Yet the TSA makes no exceptions for them, under the guise of "security" (this was in the New York Times last week). However, someone who needs "personal lubricant" can bring that aboard (provided the screener is aware that it's allowed).
The people who manage to smuggle dangerous lip gloss or eye drops recognize that the liquid ban is utterly stupid, irrational, and worthless. They don't play along with the pretense that it is anything else. Those who scrupulously adhere to it (and suffer the consequences of lost, damaged, or stolen checked bags) are only handing the terrorists a victory.
The only benefit the "enhanced security" will provide is a false sense of safety for those simple-minded folk who believe our Leader's claims that we're safer (though of course not yet safe). They're the ones who eagerly surrender their liberties on command and goose-step in perfect synchrony whenever the Leader plays "patriotic" music. That's what our country is coming to.
Perhaps the thing we can do is write to the elected officials who (supposedly) represent us. Let them know we're very aware that the whole thing is stupid and that it's punishing innocent people without making anyone any safer. That probably won't do any good, since our Congress is full of cowards who won't even consider speaking out against what the Leader does in the name of "security" no matter how stupid and even counterproductive it is. But perhaps if enough people let them know that they recognize the stupidity for what it is, they might be goaded into action.
The best thing we can do, of course, is to avoid flying. The liquid ban is just the latest of a great many indignities and discomforts that are now synonymous with air travel. Who needs that?
Sep 24th, 2006, 02:18 AM
#56
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JB,
yup, I just wanted to rant (for casual readers) because the phrasing sounded so familiar. I apologize for using your irony as a springboard (but sometimes I just let my buttons get pushed one way or the other)and not acknowledging it!
the security thing, tho: I did breeze through with my big satchel (AKA purse) containing various creams, lip glosses, and a corkscrew a week or so ago. (Meanwhile, we checked bags and waited 1 hour and 45 minutes at two airports because husband HAD to have eye solution and didn't want to buy it at destination.) Wore my old thin sockless sandals, no protective booties, my feet started to itch within a day (paranoia? my mistake for forgetting). I don't want to be targeted for secondary screening (is there a reason they refer to it as SS?), so I'm a lemming, too. (Your post is correct in every way; we are sheep, and meanwhile the ships, borders, ports, planes, trains, subways, etc. are wide open and uninspected because we waste $$ on silly airplane passenger security.)
yup, I just wanted to rant (for casual readers) because the phrasing sounded so familiar. I apologize for using your irony as a springboard (but sometimes I just let my buttons get pushed one way or the other)and not acknowledging it!
the security thing, tho: I did breeze through with my big satchel (AKA purse) containing various creams, lip glosses, and a corkscrew a week or so ago. (Meanwhile, we checked bags and waited 1 hour and 45 minutes at two airports because husband HAD to have eye solution and didn't want to buy it at destination.) Wore my old thin sockless sandals, no protective booties, my feet started to itch within a day (paranoia? my mistake for forgetting). I don't want to be targeted for secondary screening (is there a reason they refer to it as SS?), so I'm a lemming, too. (Your post is correct in every way; we are sheep, and meanwhile the ships, borders, ports, planes, trains, subways, etc. are wide open and uninspected because we waste $$ on silly airplane passenger security.)
Sep 25th, 2006, 06:37 AM
#57
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Breaking news just in--- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060925/...ravel_security
So now you *can* buy a bottle of water once you pass security. Yippee!!
Why do I think that this has more to do with the complaints of airport concessions than as a way to assure security? I am a cynic at heart, but I welcome this litte piece of rationality, nonetheless.....
So now you *can* buy a bottle of water once you pass security. Yippee!!
Why do I think that this has more to do with the complaints of airport concessions than as a way to assure security? I am a cynic at heart, but I welcome this litte piece of rationality, nonetheless.....
Oct 7th, 2006, 05:56 PM
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I'm sorry, I just have to post a rant on this. My post on this thread so far took me through HNL security with all kinds of contraband in my purse & carry on, including: mascara, mouthwash, snake bile (Chinese medicine), hand sanitizer spray, air freshener, and a couple of other things.
On my way from ORD to CDG last week, they said we can now have liquids but just put them in a ziplock. Well, I have no ziplock as I am traveling. So I took out the mouthwash--the most obvious liquid thing--and put it atop all my things. The TSA guy at ORD gave me a lecture on how I need to have it in a ziplock bag. I said, "That's the only thing I have. why do I need a bag for it if I'm putting it out for you?" He went on and on about how to get a ziplock bag, so I told him to just take it. I still passed through security with my mascara, snake bile, hand sanitizer spray, air freshener, and a couple of other things. Whut???
Fast forward to today. I leave CDG for ORD. They make me take out my ziplock bags at check in, and they staple the tops of the bags (I guess to ensure that I don't bust them out during the plane ride to do something devious?). I have to HOLD the damn bags. And, they tell everyone we can only have ONE carry on, so everyone in line is scrambling to stuff their purses in their other bag!
Then we go through security. In addition to regular screening, the security agents hold up my ziplocks and examine the contents from the outside while trying to figure out what they are. From there, I can stuff them back into my bags. I still get through without bagging my mascara, snake bile, hand sanitizer spray, and air freshener.
I get to the gate. Before we can board the plane itself, we go through one more screening. This time, we are separated into lines of men and women. The men's line zips through. The women's line is long because the gal insists on opening every carry on and examining every single damn item, and then every woman has to struggle to repack her carry on because this girl has just messed everything up. Security brings in one more woman, who helps speed up the line a little as she does not scrutinize every single item.
When I get to the front, I pray for the fast woman, but instead get the fastidious girl. She goes through almost everything, finds my mascara, shakes her finger at me, and confiscates it. from there she lets me go. I still have my unpackaged snake bile, hand sanitizer spray, and air freshener that she seems to have missed. I wanted to say, "Did taking my mascara make you feel good?" But bit down hard on my tongue not to say anything.
Sure, this thing is for show. But are they really accomplishing anything? I'm getting through with my unpackaged, unchecked snake bile (who the heck is going to translate that prescription?) and air freshener while they rifle through my bag to confiscate my dangerous mascara. Fascists!
On my way from ORD to CDG last week, they said we can now have liquids but just put them in a ziplock. Well, I have no ziplock as I am traveling. So I took out the mouthwash--the most obvious liquid thing--and put it atop all my things. The TSA guy at ORD gave me a lecture on how I need to have it in a ziplock bag. I said, "That's the only thing I have. why do I need a bag for it if I'm putting it out for you?" He went on and on about how to get a ziplock bag, so I told him to just take it. I still passed through security with my mascara, snake bile, hand sanitizer spray, air freshener, and a couple of other things. Whut???
Fast forward to today. I leave CDG for ORD. They make me take out my ziplock bags at check in, and they staple the tops of the bags (I guess to ensure that I don't bust them out during the plane ride to do something devious?). I have to HOLD the damn bags. And, they tell everyone we can only have ONE carry on, so everyone in line is scrambling to stuff their purses in their other bag!
Then we go through security. In addition to regular screening, the security agents hold up my ziplocks and examine the contents from the outside while trying to figure out what they are. From there, I can stuff them back into my bags. I still get through without bagging my mascara, snake bile, hand sanitizer spray, and air freshener.
I get to the gate. Before we can board the plane itself, we go through one more screening. This time, we are separated into lines of men and women. The men's line zips through. The women's line is long because the gal insists on opening every carry on and examining every single damn item, and then every woman has to struggle to repack her carry on because this girl has just messed everything up. Security brings in one more woman, who helps speed up the line a little as she does not scrutinize every single item.
When I get to the front, I pray for the fast woman, but instead get the fastidious girl. She goes through almost everything, finds my mascara, shakes her finger at me, and confiscates it. from there she lets me go. I still have my unpackaged snake bile, hand sanitizer spray, and air freshener that she seems to have missed. I wanted to say, "Did taking my mascara make you feel good?" But bit down hard on my tongue not to say anything.
Sure, this thing is for show. But are they really accomplishing anything? I'm getting through with my unpackaged, unchecked snake bile (who the heck is going to translate that prescription?) and air freshener while they rifle through my bag to confiscate my dangerous mascara. Fascists!
