Fodors: SEPARATE HAWAII again please!!!!!!!
Oct 28th, 2000, 05:25 PM
#1
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Fodors: SEPARATE HAWAII again please!!!!!!!
I didn't mind so much when Fodors separated Hawaii from this forum. There are far too many posts on it, and the majority, you can tell are from travel agents trying to attract business. Separate Hawaii..leave Calif. and Florida..they don't seem to reap much business for these vultures, imo.
Oct 29th, 2000, 10:22 AM
#5
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As a person who has never been to Hawaii and not planning to go anytime in the near future, I disagree with separating Hawaii from the other posts. It is usually pretty clear from the titles that the posts are about Hawaii so I just scroll past them. What is so difficult about that? On the other hand, every now and again something catches my eye on one of them and I might take the time to read it, adding it to ever increasing file of future travel information. I don't understand why someone would want Hawaii separated? If you aren't interested in looking at them, why do you, and how do you know they are from travel agents? Seems to me that if you aren't interested and you just scroll past them, you wouldn't have a clue what was in the messages.
Oct 29th, 2000, 11:52 AM
#6
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Yes, the U.S. board was a nice place to be when Hawaii was separate.
Despite denials and protests to the contrary, the only people who don't want it separated are those who have a vested interest in marketing to the largest possible audience here. Everyone else wants Hawaii OUT of here and on its own.
Fodor's, PLEASE heed the requests of your true site visitors, NOT your non-paying site advertisers, and move Hawaii to its own forum.
Despite denials and protests to the contrary, the only people who don't want it separated are those who have a vested interest in marketing to the largest possible audience here. Everyone else wants Hawaii OUT of here and on its own.
Fodor's, PLEASE heed the requests of your true site visitors, NOT your non-paying site advertisers, and move Hawaii to its own forum.
Oct 29th, 2000, 01:38 PM
#7
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Am I being called a liar or are you just not listening, Maui? Pray tell me what my vested interest is. I have just explained to you why I don't see any reason to have it separated, so don't say that no one does. I suppose now I will be branded a travel agent. I have found that when I do read the Hawaii postings the most obnoxious thing about them is that half or more of the responses are from people accusing the poster of being a travel agent. I still say, if you aren't interested, pray tell, why do you keep reading and commenting on all those posts and why can't you simply scroll past them. I suggest it takes approximately 15 seconds to scroll the entire list of 50 posts if you aren't reading them.
Oct 29th, 2000, 07:19 PM
#8
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Right on Patrick!!
Why is it that travel agents only post on Hawaii topics, as one would believe reading these protests, not CA, AZ, FL, NY or wherever? Do they get commissions merely by saying *something* on this board (providing it's related to HI)? Do they bill someone and collect commissions for merely mentioning their name? God, I need that job. Doesn't there have to be a referral and proof of usage of that referral for there to be compensation? If that's not the case, then I have a resume I'd like to shoot off as it sounds like a pretty cushy job! I'll sit here typing promos and collecting fees for doing nothing more than browsing the boards and posting every resort name I see all day long. What a job!
I'm not an agent and have never used one. I enjoy doing my own trip research and use any info here as a back up, and a very secondary one at that. I believe I can differentiate between commercial messages and those of genuine travelers, as can most other posters. We don't need to be saved from ourselves so please spare us from your determination of what is fit for our eyes and what is not! We don't need another PG-13 in our lives.
Oh yeah, I've been to Hawaii once. It was OK, but not the paradise it was cracked up to be. I'll never go back and don't care a frig about whomever posts on the topic. I can easily scroll past the HI threads and it doesn't take 15 seconds to do so. Instinct tells me there are only 2 or 3 negative posters using multiple names and flooding these topics with their posts, hoping they can force Fodors hand. Wish you'd grow up kiddies, there are many more things worth festering about than the possibility of an TA slipping through and posting a commercial message, which more likely than not will be recognized as such and ignored! And even if it weren't, PLEASE explain how an agent benefits merely from posting a name! I've found lots of good recs so if that's the case, I'll make a killing just surfing and posting here, right? FAB
DI-level 5
Why is it that travel agents only post on Hawaii topics, as one would believe reading these protests, not CA, AZ, FL, NY or wherever? Do they get commissions merely by saying *something* on this board (providing it's related to HI)? Do they bill someone and collect commissions for merely mentioning their name? God, I need that job. Doesn't there have to be a referral and proof of usage of that referral for there to be compensation? If that's not the case, then I have a resume I'd like to shoot off as it sounds like a pretty cushy job! I'll sit here typing promos and collecting fees for doing nothing more than browsing the boards and posting every resort name I see all day long. What a job!
I'm not an agent and have never used one. I enjoy doing my own trip research and use any info here as a back up, and a very secondary one at that. I believe I can differentiate between commercial messages and those of genuine travelers, as can most other posters. We don't need to be saved from ourselves so please spare us from your determination of what is fit for our eyes and what is not! We don't need another PG-13 in our lives.
Oh yeah, I've been to Hawaii once. It was OK, but not the paradise it was cracked up to be. I'll never go back and don't care a frig about whomever posts on the topic. I can easily scroll past the HI threads and it doesn't take 15 seconds to do so. Instinct tells me there are only 2 or 3 negative posters using multiple names and flooding these topics with their posts, hoping they can force Fodors hand. Wish you'd grow up kiddies, there are many more things worth festering about than the possibility of an TA slipping through and posting a commercial message, which more likely than not will be recognized as such and ignored! And even if it weren't, PLEASE explain how an agent benefits merely from posting a name! I've found lots of good recs so if that's the case, I'll make a killing just surfing and posting here, right? FAB
DI-level 5
Oct 30th, 2000, 06:37 AM
#9
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I'm for separation and here's why. It's not just a matter of scrolling past those posts. It's that there are so many of them that posts on the other states get flipped into the back pages much too soon. Be honest, not that many of us go to the trouble of going past the first 50 posts when we're just skimming. So anyone with a question about Louisville who posts late in the evening is likely to have the question disappear by morning because of all the Hawaii traffic. The only exceptions are those trolling posts that the midnight surfers get busy answering -- so half the time, the US forum looks like it's only for crazies and Hawaii questions (and apparently that's sometimes the same people).
Oct 30th, 2000, 07:00 AM
#10
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I just counted and currently in the top 50 threads there are only 6 about Hawaii (not counting this one, which I don't count because it's not really about Hawaii, it's about the organization of the Fodors website). When Hawaii was separate from the rest of the U.S., there were far fewer answers to questions on Hawaii. Please don't separate it. I like it the way it is. Hawaii is part of the U.S. and should be treated as such instead of turning travellers to Hawaii into social pariahs to be banished to a separate forum. Why some people are so paranoid about travel agents I cannot understand. I'm not a travel agent, I just went to Hawaii on vacation with my mom.
Oct 30th, 2000, 04:12 PM
#11
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There are two things that bother me about the promotional efforts here.
First is the fact that many business people are circumventing the rules of a site which is generously hosting them by promoting their businesses here. Make no mistake, all these headers naming specific hotels and businesses are promotions. Businesses pay a great deal to have their product names "positioned" in certain markets, like the advertising you see in sports stadiums, or the brand name products you see in movies. Companies have paid money to have their products put before an audience, just as they pay travel agencies to position their hotels, car rental agencies, tour companies and restaurants where the greatest numbers of potential customers will see them.
The second thing that bothers me is their refusal to back down when asked to do so but others here. There was a travel agent named Beth Marciel on the Europe board who not only refused to stop her multiple market positioning posts when asked, she also insulted the regular Fodorites who made the requests. It's common knowledge here that multiple, repeated posts about the same topic are rude and inconsiderate to others who post. Their threads disappear before anyone has a chance to view them. The marketers who are saturating the board with multiple posts about the same area and same topic just shove the other posts into oblivion. But rather than acknowledge the requests and opinions of others here, they argue with and insult (in the finest Beth Marciel tradition) anyone who voices opposition to their methods.
This defiant rudeness is the impetus behind the calls for separating the Hawaii board and requiring registration here, but the promoters still don't get it. They still want to argue and accuse rather than listen to what is being said.
If they were smart, they would back down a little now, in order to assure their continued access to this market. Their refusals to do so will no doubt cause their access to be restricted in the not too distant future.
First is the fact that many business people are circumventing the rules of a site which is generously hosting them by promoting their businesses here. Make no mistake, all these headers naming specific hotels and businesses are promotions. Businesses pay a great deal to have their product names "positioned" in certain markets, like the advertising you see in sports stadiums, or the brand name products you see in movies. Companies have paid money to have their products put before an audience, just as they pay travel agencies to position their hotels, car rental agencies, tour companies and restaurants where the greatest numbers of potential customers will see them.
The second thing that bothers me is their refusal to back down when asked to do so but others here. There was a travel agent named Beth Marciel on the Europe board who not only refused to stop her multiple market positioning posts when asked, she also insulted the regular Fodorites who made the requests. It's common knowledge here that multiple, repeated posts about the same topic are rude and inconsiderate to others who post. Their threads disappear before anyone has a chance to view them. The marketers who are saturating the board with multiple posts about the same area and same topic just shove the other posts into oblivion. But rather than acknowledge the requests and opinions of others here, they argue with and insult (in the finest Beth Marciel tradition) anyone who voices opposition to their methods.
This defiant rudeness is the impetus behind the calls for separating the Hawaii board and requiring registration here, but the promoters still don't get it. They still want to argue and accuse rather than listen to what is being said.
If they were smart, they would back down a little now, in order to assure their continued access to this market. Their refusals to do so will no doubt cause their access to be restricted in the not too distant future.
Oct 30th, 2000, 05:22 PM
#12
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The travel agent folks are at it again. Now one of them is citing Beth M. as evidence that Hawaii should be a separate board. Beth M. posted about Italy, so what has that got to do with Hawaii?
No, I'm not a travel agent. Just tired of the tired travel agent argument.
No, I'm not a travel agent. Just tired of the tired travel agent argument.
Oct 31st, 2000, 05:55 AM
#17
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Ok, I've checked the board again this morning. Out of 50 responses, there are 9 that involve Hawaii. Three of those, including this one, are nothing but complaints about Hawaii posters. I have read through the other 6 and for the life of me have not been able to see one that could possibly be by a travel agent, or in any way seems to be unfairly promoting anything. Two are repeats from a day apart, which I didn't understand. And two of the honest appearing question posts have been met with negativity about even asking anything about Hawaii. So here's my solution. Fodor's should make it illegal to start a post about complaining. That way we would have eliminated three posts out of the top 50, and shortened a couple of the other posts. What remains are honest folks asking questions about a travel destination and honest folks giving advice to fellow travelers. I thought that's what this web site was all about. Again I am not interested in Hawaii, but what is it about that place that the mere mention of its name seems to instill such hatred in the hearts of some travelers??
And here is another radical idea. If you get to the 50th response and see that it has been posted since you last checked the full list, then you could actually click to see the next 50 and then scroll down to where you have caught up with where you left off. I know that is a lot to ask --actually having to click a mouse and waiting almost 5 or 6 seconds for the column to appear, but it seems that if you are concerned with missing posts because there are more than 50 in a day it might be worth it to go to all that trouble to see what you missed. I do it all the time. In the Europe board, sometimes you must go to the third group of 50 if you miss just one day of checking.
And here is another radical idea. If you get to the 50th response and see that it has been posted since you last checked the full list, then you could actually click to see the next 50 and then scroll down to where you have caught up with where you left off. I know that is a lot to ask --actually having to click a mouse and waiting almost 5 or 6 seconds for the column to appear, but it seems that if you are concerned with missing posts because there are more than 50 in a day it might be worth it to go to all that trouble to see what you missed. I do it all the time. In the Europe board, sometimes you must go to the third group of 50 if you miss just one day of checking.
Oct 31st, 2000, 06:27 AM
#18
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JEB: You claim, "Make no mistake, all these headers naming specific hotels and businesses are promotions." That is ridiculous. When I was planning my trip to Hawaii, I posted questions on this forum with headings asking about this hotel vs. that hotel both for Maui and Kauai. I am not a travel agent, I was just trying to plan a trip, which is exactly what this forum is for. The responses I got were very helpful to me. I use guidebooks for narrowing down my options, then post here to ultimately make final decisions about where to stay. This has worked pretty well for me, although anyone who read my trip report upon returning knows that I loved the hotel where we stayed on Maui and disliked the one on Kauai. I think the idea that specific hotels should never be mentioned in headings is ridiculous -- for goodness sakes, isn't it better than the headings that are too vague (which also get criticized here)? People also mention specific hotels in headings on the Caribbean board, and no one there complains, because it is totally normal to ask about one hotel vs. another when you are shelling out a lot of money for a vacation.
Oct 31st, 2000, 07:15 AM
#20
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Honestly, do some of you people just sit on this site all day and respond defensively to every single comment about the commercialization of Hawaii? It's always the same people. Even if you are just travelers with no agenda as some of you claim, why so darned interested in it and why spend so much time and energy on this site talking about it? Don't you have jobs? Or is that what you're doing HERE?
