Florida Condo Dream
Jul 4th, 2016 | 03:44 AM
#1
Original Poster
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2
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Florida Condo Dream
Hi All,
About once a year or so, my wife and I start fantasizing about buying a condo near the ocean in Florida. She spent most of her adult life in Hudson (near Tampa), and my Dad used to own Captain Tony’s, and owned a 6-unit in Key West, so Florida is “in our blood.” We are 3 years from being able to travel more flexibly (daughter graduates), and our main source of income will be our 48 unit apartment rental business (unless we sell it, in which case our pile of cash will be!)
We like the ocean but understand that the insurance could be “crippling”, so we’re willing to be inland a few blocks. We anticipate that we’d be MUCH better off financially just renting via VRBO. So this is not a financial decision as much as an emotional one. For next 3 years, we’ll only be able to go down on school vacations (most expensive times to fly). Our primary reasons would be:
1. Freedom of leaving at a moment’s notice and heading down & freedom to stay an extra day or three without worrying about the next renter being right behind us.
2. Good “jumping off” place when we start traveling more. (i.e. it’s much cheaper to go on a cruise, fly to Ecuador, etc. from Florida than Maine. Maine is a horrible place to travel anywhere from (but a wonderful place to live)
3. Having a place that has a lot of our clothes, supplies, etc. and forging relationships with the neighbors, etc.
I’ve often wondered if we could get a better deal / bang for the buck with a SFH. Yes, we’d need to handle hiring someone to look after it most of the year, but???
That all being said, I’d love to hear any thoughts y’all have, especially the “where?” Here is what’s important to us:
1. Prefer ON the ocean (as in hearing the surf if we open our window) but will accept up to 10 minute drive from water’s edge. We’d live on canal, but would still want to be 10 minutes or less from SANDY beach.
2. So sort of implied with #1, we want a sandy beach, not OVERLY crowded.
3. Would LIKE to keep price to $250k or less but flexible as long as we’re convinced it’s a “no brainer” for eventual appreciation and ease of selling.
4. Town where its somewhat laid back but NOT deserted. We’d like to be able to get to a few nice restaurants and shopping within, say 10-15 minute drive
5. 2BR / 2BA minimum
6. Must have pool & hot tub
7. Reasonable condo fees
8. Like to be able to rent it out VRBO style … could it be that if a HO assoc allows that, it might not be a great place to live?
9. House vs. Condo? Compelling reasons to choose house over condo?
10. Should be in an area that has a high chance of holding value, and being easy to sell in the future if we should want to.
11. If we’re doing this on “want” vs. “need” I want to mitigate the financial damage by buying as intelligently as possible. So if there are any situations where we can get a discount for accepting “acceptable” challenges (can’t think of what those might be) we will. Maybe like a condo on a golf course, but the one farthest away from the course??
Perhaps a list of things we like / dislike would help too.
LOVE: healthy food, long walks, sunshine, laying by a quiet poolside reading. I would like to fish and snorkel once in a while, but one of my favorite things is long walks around 5 in the morning, especially on the beach.
DO NOT LOVE: Anything to do with golf, “botanical” gardens, fast food, poorly behaved children with liberal parents who say things like, “Now, honey, don’t you think you should make a different choice?” We’d like to be far enough south that there is little chance of “enduring” a 55 degree week during the winter.
We’ve got friends with Condo in Venice and they speak highly of it. Also heard good things about Sarasota area …
About once a year or so, my wife and I start fantasizing about buying a condo near the ocean in Florida. She spent most of her adult life in Hudson (near Tampa), and my Dad used to own Captain Tony’s, and owned a 6-unit in Key West, so Florida is “in our blood.” We are 3 years from being able to travel more flexibly (daughter graduates), and our main source of income will be our 48 unit apartment rental business (unless we sell it, in which case our pile of cash will be!)
We like the ocean but understand that the insurance could be “crippling”, so we’re willing to be inland a few blocks. We anticipate that we’d be MUCH better off financially just renting via VRBO. So this is not a financial decision as much as an emotional one. For next 3 years, we’ll only be able to go down on school vacations (most expensive times to fly). Our primary reasons would be:
1. Freedom of leaving at a moment’s notice and heading down & freedom to stay an extra day or three without worrying about the next renter being right behind us.
2. Good “jumping off” place when we start traveling more. (i.e. it’s much cheaper to go on a cruise, fly to Ecuador, etc. from Florida than Maine. Maine is a horrible place to travel anywhere from (but a wonderful place to live)
3. Having a place that has a lot of our clothes, supplies, etc. and forging relationships with the neighbors, etc.
I’ve often wondered if we could get a better deal / bang for the buck with a SFH. Yes, we’d need to handle hiring someone to look after it most of the year, but???
That all being said, I’d love to hear any thoughts y’all have, especially the “where?” Here is what’s important to us:
1. Prefer ON the ocean (as in hearing the surf if we open our window) but will accept up to 10 minute drive from water’s edge. We’d live on canal, but would still want to be 10 minutes or less from SANDY beach.
2. So sort of implied with #1, we want a sandy beach, not OVERLY crowded.
3. Would LIKE to keep price to $250k or less but flexible as long as we’re convinced it’s a “no brainer” for eventual appreciation and ease of selling.
4. Town where its somewhat laid back but NOT deserted. We’d like to be able to get to a few nice restaurants and shopping within, say 10-15 minute drive
5. 2BR / 2BA minimum
6. Must have pool & hot tub
7. Reasonable condo fees
8. Like to be able to rent it out VRBO style … could it be that if a HO assoc allows that, it might not be a great place to live?
9. House vs. Condo? Compelling reasons to choose house over condo?
10. Should be in an area that has a high chance of holding value, and being easy to sell in the future if we should want to.
11. If we’re doing this on “want” vs. “need” I want to mitigate the financial damage by buying as intelligently as possible. So if there are any situations where we can get a discount for accepting “acceptable” challenges (can’t think of what those might be) we will. Maybe like a condo on a golf course, but the one farthest away from the course??
Perhaps a list of things we like / dislike would help too.
LOVE: healthy food, long walks, sunshine, laying by a quiet poolside reading. I would like to fish and snorkel once in a while, but one of my favorite things is long walks around 5 in the morning, especially on the beach.
DO NOT LOVE: Anything to do with golf, “botanical” gardens, fast food, poorly behaved children with liberal parents who say things like, “Now, honey, don’t you think you should make a different choice?” We’d like to be far enough south that there is little chance of “enduring” a 55 degree week during the winter.
We’ve got friends with Condo in Venice and they speak highly of it. Also heard good things about Sarasota area …
Jul 4th, 2016 | 04:05 AM
#2
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,886
Likes: 0
I'm not an expert on FL so I won't give specifics except to say that (based on a couple of friends who have condos there they rent out when not being used) what you want sounds wonderful - but don;t think your budget is anywhere near realistic - not only purchase price but also HOA fees and taxes/insurance.
If you want a place that is not primarily short-term snowboards for a couple of weeks at a time there are often restrictions on your renting out your unit - and substantial HOA fees.
If you want a place that is not primarily short-term snowboards for a couple of weeks at a time there are often restrictions on your renting out your unit - and substantial HOA fees.
Jul 4th, 2016 | 04:36 AM
#3
Original Poster
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
We really don't have a budget on monthly expenses, but would LIKE to keep it to around 250K or less up front. That being said, we'd consider higher if we felt there was a higher than usual chance of the building appreciating, or even sellable for close what we bought it for. In other words, "easy exit if we decide we screwed up!" make sense?
Jul 4th, 2016 | 04:41 AM
#4
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 19,736
Likes: 0
Let's start with #3 & 10:
"3. Would LIKE to keep price to $250k or less but flexible as long as we’re convinced it’s a “no brainer” for eventual appreciation and ease of selling. "
"10.Should be in an area that has a high chance of holding value, and being easy to sell in the future if we should want to."
First, if 2008 taught us anything, it's that there are no no-brainers for real-estate appreciation or ease of selling, especially in FL. What if mortgage rates suddenly zoom to 10%? (And don't tell me it can't happen.) What does that do to ease of selling? Owning real estate is a financial risk, especially owning a single-family house or condo unit. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
You know you're not going to get something decent on the ocean for $250K. Twenty minutes from the ocean? Maybe. In some areas that have barrier islands, anything across a bridge and on the mainland is considerably cheaper than on the island.
As noted, many condo HOAs restrict short-term rentals. But don't be lured by the siren song of "Oh, the rentals will pay part of our mortgage." Renting is complicated and can be a huge headache. And how will you react when you occupy your place and find out that a renter has caused damage or not cleaned the place for three weeks, including leaving food on the counter or in the sink?
Your best bet, IMHO, is to get a direct referral from someone who's already living in a the type of place you're looking for. I suppose that's why you posted this -- to get a direct referral. But really, you need to speak to some trusted person who's onsite and get all the positives and negatives (there are always negatives). There's a place out there for you that will entail some compromises on your part. Only you can decide what those compromises will be.
"3. Would LIKE to keep price to $250k or less but flexible as long as we’re convinced it’s a “no brainer” for eventual appreciation and ease of selling. "
"10.Should be in an area that has a high chance of holding value, and being easy to sell in the future if we should want to."
First, if 2008 taught us anything, it's that there are no no-brainers for real-estate appreciation or ease of selling, especially in FL. What if mortgage rates suddenly zoom to 10%? (And don't tell me it can't happen.) What does that do to ease of selling? Owning real estate is a financial risk, especially owning a single-family house or condo unit. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
You know you're not going to get something decent on the ocean for $250K. Twenty minutes from the ocean? Maybe. In some areas that have barrier islands, anything across a bridge and on the mainland is considerably cheaper than on the island.
As noted, many condo HOAs restrict short-term rentals. But don't be lured by the siren song of "Oh, the rentals will pay part of our mortgage." Renting is complicated and can be a huge headache. And how will you react when you occupy your place and find out that a renter has caused damage or not cleaned the place for three weeks, including leaving food on the counter or in the sink?
Your best bet, IMHO, is to get a direct referral from someone who's already living in a the type of place you're looking for. I suppose that's why you posted this -- to get a direct referral. But really, you need to speak to some trusted person who's onsite and get all the positives and negatives (there are always negatives). There's a place out there for you that will entail some compromises on your part. Only you can decide what those compromises will be.
Jul 4th, 2016 | 05:06 AM
#5
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,034
Likes: 3
Jul 4th, 2016 | 05:25 AM
#6
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
I have a condo at Villa del Sol in Jensen beach that fits your bill almost perfectly. On the Ocean, small but active city,... The beach is beautiful. Most of the owners are from the north and stay Jan-March.
Unlike most condos, these are NOT high-rise (a big plus from my perspective). The down side is less density, higher fees.
Unlike most condos, these are NOT high-rise (a big plus from my perspective). The down side is less density, higher fees.
Jul 4th, 2016 | 07:48 AM
#7
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,612
Likes: 0
We used to live in Tampa full time, but were transferred away. As soon as DH retired, we made a beeline back, buying a condo in St Pete, and live there Nov to May. Ours is on Boca Ciega Bay, the bay dividing St Pete from SPB, and is about 20 yards from the water edge. We do sleep with our windows open and can hear dolphin "breath" when they swim by at night. The bay can be wavy and rough, but generally it's just lapping water noises.
Pros of condo living...when you leave, lock the door and walk away. Neighbor's go in periodically to make sure the A/C is still running. No maintenance, no security worries (it's gated). The shortest term rentals allowed in our complex is a year and we FAR prefer that. You don't have people coming and going all the time (added security) and unusual partying of vacationers. My husband initially thought he wanted a place that allowed rentals, but we are so glad we are in a place that doesn't allow it. You start bringing your own "stuff" in and I would not want to deal with tenants in there!
Cons...you have to enjoy condo living, and dealing with condo rules and regs, community living and common areas being controlled by people whose decisions and decorating tastes you don't necessarily care for.
St Pete is a booming town. Downtown has taken off, is beautifully developed with scores of good restaurants. We are 10 minutes from downtown, and 10 minutes from the Pass-a-Grille area of SPB. It is about 30 minutes, give or take, to Tampa Int'l airport...a fantastic airport with overseas flights. There is a cruise port downtown Tampa.
You won't be on the beach for $250, but you can get close to that on the bay, and the bay is pretty darned nice! Our unit is in the 4's, but because it's a condo, our insurance isn't that bad...a little over $1,000 a year. Condo fees are steep (over 600), but it's a huge complex with elaborate landscaping, 3 pools, Boardwalk, and small beach and kayak area, and all that requires maintenance. Those fees are steep for the area and you can do much better than that! Ours has appreciated about 50,000 in the 5 years we've had it, but we bought at a very good time.
There are good medical facilities in the area, including one of the best cancer treatment centers, located in Tampa, Moffitt Cancer Center.
Sarasota and Venice area are nice too, but you lose the convenience of TPA being very close. It's a drive to get friends or family that fly in! We have friends who bought in Osprey, south of Sarasota near Venice. I loved their area, and it's in your price range, but the beach isn't very close, because the nearest body of water is the gulf off of Casey Key, which they can walk to, but there are only private homes there. To get to the beach, they have to go to Venice.
We have absolutely no regrets about our decision to buy and to buy in that location. We would like to have only one place though, and that would be in FL. The condo, at 1,500 sq feet, is fine, but we'd prefer something larger if we sell our house. We have looked at single family homes, but have never found anything affordable with the view we currently have, and don't want to give that up!
Good luck and have fun vetting the various locations you are interested in!! To get you started, you might look online at Isla del Sol in St Petersburg, on Boca Ciega Bay. I believe they have units close to your price range. It'll give you a little idea of the sort of thing you will find at various price points.
Pros of condo living...when you leave, lock the door and walk away. Neighbor's go in periodically to make sure the A/C is still running. No maintenance, no security worries (it's gated). The shortest term rentals allowed in our complex is a year and we FAR prefer that. You don't have people coming and going all the time (added security) and unusual partying of vacationers. My husband initially thought he wanted a place that allowed rentals, but we are so glad we are in a place that doesn't allow it. You start bringing your own "stuff" in and I would not want to deal with tenants in there!
Cons...you have to enjoy condo living, and dealing with condo rules and regs, community living and common areas being controlled by people whose decisions and decorating tastes you don't necessarily care for.
St Pete is a booming town. Downtown has taken off, is beautifully developed with scores of good restaurants. We are 10 minutes from downtown, and 10 minutes from the Pass-a-Grille area of SPB. It is about 30 minutes, give or take, to Tampa Int'l airport...a fantastic airport with overseas flights. There is a cruise port downtown Tampa.
You won't be on the beach for $250, but you can get close to that on the bay, and the bay is pretty darned nice! Our unit is in the 4's, but because it's a condo, our insurance isn't that bad...a little over $1,000 a year. Condo fees are steep (over 600), but it's a huge complex with elaborate landscaping, 3 pools, Boardwalk, and small beach and kayak area, and all that requires maintenance. Those fees are steep for the area and you can do much better than that! Ours has appreciated about 50,000 in the 5 years we've had it, but we bought at a very good time.
There are good medical facilities in the area, including one of the best cancer treatment centers, located in Tampa, Moffitt Cancer Center.
Sarasota and Venice area are nice too, but you lose the convenience of TPA being very close. It's a drive to get friends or family that fly in! We have friends who bought in Osprey, south of Sarasota near Venice. I loved their area, and it's in your price range, but the beach isn't very close, because the nearest body of water is the gulf off of Casey Key, which they can walk to, but there are only private homes there. To get to the beach, they have to go to Venice.
We have absolutely no regrets about our decision to buy and to buy in that location. We would like to have only one place though, and that would be in FL. The condo, at 1,500 sq feet, is fine, but we'd prefer something larger if we sell our house. We have looked at single family homes, but have never found anything affordable with the view we currently have, and don't want to give that up!
Good luck and have fun vetting the various locations you are interested in!! To get you started, you might look online at Isla del Sol in St Petersburg, on Boca Ciega Bay. I believe they have units close to your price range. It'll give you a little idea of the sort of thing you will find at various price points.
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Jul 4th, 2016 | 09:47 AM
#8
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
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OO and vincenzo give great advice!
I may post a bit more when I have time, but right now I think what would be ideal for you is to forge a relationship with a realtor you trust. Of course that means you have to settle on a general area first, and the only way to do that is to make a short list and then set about visiting every place on it.
I also want to second mmgood's point about lower density equalling higher fees. Small complexes have fewer owners among whom to spread the pain if a major expense arises.
And OO's point about proximity to an airport is a good one. I live in Tampa and so may well be biased, but I think the St. Pete area is one you should seriously consider. You may get a few cold days at the beach every couple of years, though.
I may post a bit more when I have time, but right now I think what would be ideal for you is to forge a relationship with a realtor you trust. Of course that means you have to settle on a general area first, and the only way to do that is to make a short list and then set about visiting every place on it.
I also want to second mmgood's point about lower density equalling higher fees. Small complexes have fewer owners among whom to spread the pain if a major expense arises.
And OO's point about proximity to an airport is a good one. I live in Tampa and so may well be biased, but I think the St. Pete area is one you should seriously consider. You may get a few cold days at the beach every couple of years, though.
Jul 4th, 2016 | 02:28 PM
#10
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
<8. Like to be able to rent it out VRBO style … could it be that if a HO assoc allows that, it might not be a great place to live? >
This is the conundrum, although a neighbor's mother lives in a very large complex that allows short term rentals and she actually likes the energy of people coming and going, meets new people at the pool, etc. YMMV. I would rent a VRBO and spend my time observing and asking questions of whatever onsite management there is, or try to chat up an owner or three.
<9. House vs. Condo? Compelling reasons to choose house over condo?>
Be aware that more and more beach communities are finding ways to crack down on Air BnB and VRBO activity, because neighbors hate having short term renters around weekend after weekend and it drives down property values.
Personally, I would not want to lock-and-leave a house in Florida. Too much can go wrong, and you have to put a lot of trust into whoever you have maintaining your yard and pool and checking on your interior, too.
This is the conundrum, although a neighbor's mother lives in a very large complex that allows short term rentals and she actually likes the energy of people coming and going, meets new people at the pool, etc. YMMV. I would rent a VRBO and spend my time observing and asking questions of whatever onsite management there is, or try to chat up an owner or three.
<9. House vs. Condo? Compelling reasons to choose house over condo?>
Be aware that more and more beach communities are finding ways to crack down on Air BnB and VRBO activity, because neighbors hate having short term renters around weekend after weekend and it drives down property values.
Personally, I would not want to lock-and-leave a house in Florida. Too much can go wrong, and you have to put a lot of trust into whoever you have maintaining your yard and pool and checking on your interior, too.
Jul 5th, 2016 | 08:15 AM
#11
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,118
Likes: 0
I lived in Sarasota for 22 years (single family house 10 minutes from beach) and planning to move back for retirement (within 2 years max). I loved Sarasota but want something a little different yet sort of familiar so thinking Venice/Englewood. Englewood has some beach condos in your price range - they wont] be updated and condo fees will be high. I've owned 2 single family homes but they are constant work and I can't do outside stuff - have someone to mow but there are still weeds, landscape, etc. So i like the idea of a condo and some have social activities, dont' like the idea of limited space - I guess it's all a trade off.
Jul 6th, 2016 | 02:27 AM
#12
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
House vs condo
You can own as many condos as you can afford because others will take care of them.
We owned two houses for a while, and it was a nightmare for all the reasons Vicky states.
If you are keeping a house in Maine, rent or buy a condo in FL.
Do not plan to cover all, many, or even some of your costs by renting out your property. You may be able to do it, but you can't count on it, especially off the books. HOA's and condo associations learned how to spot illegal rentals while you were still in grade school. Ditto illegal dogs.
Do put aside the money to rent for a winter, one month each in three different areas that you might want to buy in. Explore. Yes, it will cost but it will be cheaper than making a bad decision. You will quickly learn why some areas seem cheap and some don't.
You don't need to be on the water. Unlike New England, all beaches are public (though many don't allow dogs) and there is usually good parking once you learn your way around.
Take some time. Relax. You might wind up renting year after year.
You can own as many condos as you can afford because others will take care of them.
We owned two houses for a while, and it was a nightmare for all the reasons Vicky states.
If you are keeping a house in Maine, rent or buy a condo in FL.
Do not plan to cover all, many, or even some of your costs by renting out your property. You may be able to do it, but you can't count on it, especially off the books. HOA's and condo associations learned how to spot illegal rentals while you were still in grade school. Ditto illegal dogs.
Do put aside the money to rent for a winter, one month each in three different areas that you might want to buy in. Explore. Yes, it will cost but it will be cheaper than making a bad decision. You will quickly learn why some areas seem cheap and some don't.
You don't need to be on the water. Unlike New England, all beaches are public (though many don't allow dogs) and there is usually good parking once you learn your way around.
Take some time. Relax. You might wind up renting year after year.
Jul 7th, 2016 | 06:57 AM
#14
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,612
Likes: 0
Sorry...should have been more specific. Isla is a huge condo complex over both sides of the Pinellas Bayway. Here's a trulia link to some sales there. http://www.trulia.com/FL/Saint_Peter...,Isla_del_Sol/
Jul 7th, 2016 | 01:02 PM
#15
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 12
New Smyrna Beach is sweet and laid back, great restaurants, fishing, not much snorkeling though but low crime. Affordable also. You might see 55 in the winter for several days but we never turned on the heat this year. Check it out. Closer to Flager ave the better.
Captain Tony's, wow, you grew up there in the late 60's and early 70's? I would love to hear some of those stories. My husband was stationed there in the early 80's. Things have really changed but it is still a great place just so expensive. You are about 6.5 hours to KW so you could still go down and snorkel.
Captain Tony's, wow, you grew up there in the late 60's and early 70's? I would love to hear some of those stories. My husband was stationed there in the early 80's. Things have really changed but it is still a great place just so expensive. You are about 6.5 hours to KW so you could still go down and snorkel.
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Shorelinehomesgirl
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