Hi. I'm an experienced Europe traveler, and prolific on the Europe forum, but have no experience base with Hawaii travel (to wit, air fares, for starters). I have just learned that I can probably go to a conference in Hawaii Jan 2-6 in Kona, employer paid - - and I am thinking to try to get FF award travel for my wife. I have a reasonable amount of miles in many programs; AA (320k), AX Membership Rewards (CO, DL, SW, USAir, Hawaiian, Air Canada), DL, USAir and NW (fewest).

Ideally, I would get one FF bus. class seat for her, and one bus. class upgrade for me. Either I am finding NO seats available at all (AA, fo example), or those crazy double rewards (like 150k for one seat).

Any tricks I'm overlooking?

We hve found one solution involving separate travel to LAX (Southwest award), then Hawaiian - - but it's coach only.

Haven't actually tried Air Canada yet - should I?

Or am I just too late for this high demand period?

Thanks in advances for any advice... and...

Best wishes,

Rex Bickers
Floyds Knobs, Indiana
(home airport SDF)

Hi Rex, just a thought. Have you checked only the various websites or have you telephoned the various airlines? I ask because as strange as it seems I have found calling the airlines (and yes you do have to pay a small fee for having them make your flight reservation but only if you do get a reservation) can work. Best wishes to you.

I absolutely agree with LoveItaly and would just like to add that if you don't get a decent answer the first time you call, call again, and again. You'll be amazed how one agent will see nothing available but another one will plan the whole trip for you. Good luck!!

Rex - Did you post this question on the airlines forum of Fodor's? Many of the ff experts check that forum daily.

Try a consolidator such as OneTravel.com.

We booked FC tickets from the East Coast for the period 20 Dec '05-3 Jan '06 and paid less than $1000 per ticket R/T. Of course, i have no idea as to what you feel is 'economical' or 'worth it.'

Unfortunately, some airlines don't even offer business class service to Hawaii and you may find yourself on a plane with only FC and economy.

Rex, Delta just announced a new ATL-Maui non-stop service on Tuesday. Not many people know about it yet. I easily grabbed b-class seats for Feb (though I had to be slightly flexible on dates).

Rex, I just tried it on delta.com and it's available Dec 31 (2 legs) returning Jan 6 or Jan 9 (3 legs) for the standard award amount. Good luck.

So thrilled with your news, and so crushed with what I am finding. I don't know to what extent this is true for other carriers, but to get an upgradable seat, I now learn that I must purchase B class coach on Delta - - which comes to over $2400! (vs $630 for K class) - - my employer-supplied travel funds can't cover that (when I count the lodging and conference registration, meals, etc).

So - - big dilemma - - there ARE two seats as FF awards (business class) at the SkySaver amount (75,000 each), and I can cover that - - it just means that I am getting an award seat when my employer would pay for MY seat (but not at the $2400 level). I hate "squandering" the Sky Miles, but for now, I have gone ahead and reserved the two seats (14 days ti actually decide). Heck, who knows what airlines will be available at some point in the future (or if travel will fit the available MembershipRewards miles I'll have to burn through on this trip, not to mention our health, yadda yadda...)

Carpe diem, right?

As an additional little factor, this conference is falling right astraddle our 30th wedding anniversary.

I think I am getting myself talked into it.

Thank you, thank you so much B_in_A (Margaret, right? or Margaret and ??? - - I forget); we'll hope that we can enjoy it on the help you provided.

rex - Think twice before you book on DL's FC to Hawaii. Delta uses domestic FC on their flights to Hawaii, which is much worse than international business seats on Continental and other airlines.

You should really reconsider your choice. It's definitely not worth 75,000 miles each.

Worse, how? There is the (possible) appeal of the routing, and it has to be better than coach, on a 9 hour flight, right?

Two other alternatives that might influence the final decision...

1. Turns out that my wife has 36,000 miles of her own. I will try to use those to purchase my ticket, since in my own initial attempts at booking this online (not on phone, as I ultimately did), it simply tried to sell me the missing miles. So, if it does that, and I end up with a "bill" for many hundred of dollars, I can simply submit that to my employer. It's worth mentioning that the award seats are to _Maui_ not Kona (where I need to go); We will have to pay for her RT travel, OGG-KOA; I will be able to submit mie for reimbursement.

2. One othr possibility is Hawaiian Airlines - - are they good/better for FC? They have seats - - from LAX at reasonable cost, or award level (I think); we could conceivably get to/from LAX for $300-ish each (mine reimbursable) - - and we have a daughter in LA, so it could be a short visit with her (for example, go the night before) and break up the travel a little bit.

I don't actually mind the Maui destination. We have never been to Hawaii at all, and the idea ofgeting to see one other island has its own appeal, and that would not be reimburdable for me, if we DID get direct air travel to/from KOA.

It sure is nice being able to tap into the experience of many on this.

Oh, and thanks, also kyb... for the tip to post on airlines forum. And maybe also that FF website - - what's it called?

DL's FC to Hawaii: 39" pitch, 18.5" width, 2-2-2 on 767s.

CO to Hawaii: 55" pitch, 21" width, 2-1-2 on 767s, 170-degree recline.

NW's old DC-10 to Hawaii from MSP or SEA: 60" pitch, 20" width, 150-degree recline, 2-2-2 on the very wide DC-10.

NW and CO are DL partners, so it's the same amount of miles to Hawaii on all three airlines.

Hawaiian: 42" pitch, 21" width, 2-2-2 on 767.

The website with lots of FF information is flyertalk.com

You mentioned Air Canada. Right now, AC flies to HNL 11 times a week. A daily on a 767-300, which continues to Sydney. And 4 times a week on an 767-200. The -300 has 1-2-2 or 2-2-1 Executive First seating, 60" pitch 21" width. The -200 has 2-2-2 Executive seat, 40" pitch 18" width.

I'm actually hard pressed to see how AC can help. Too much cost/hassle to get to one of their gateways, isn't it?

There seems to be mixed info (and not very current) on the Hawaiian airlines experience (did I search here or only "airlines"? - I will consult flyertalk.

Thanks, rkk

It's still likely to better than Indiana in January, right? LOL - - or the possibility of not using the money in the account allocated to me, and losing it altogether!

You didnt give data on AA - - I was thinking that AA or UA might be the best - - but for that very reason, perhaps no shot at either, this late, for such a peak period of demand.

AMEX MR miles do not transfer to NW/WorldPerks - - but are you saying that I could move miles to OnePass or SkyMiles, and still try for NW seats?

UA uses several planes to Hawaii, and I don't know the specifics. Some have international business class, like some 767/777 service, while others are domestic like the 757.

AA's 763s should have international business class seats with 62" pitch, but their 757s don't.

If you have enough AMEX MR points to claim your seats, you can transfer them to DL or CO and then use them on DL/CO/NW. If you want to fly UA/AC, then transfer them to US or AC, and claim them on UA/AC flights.

You can also claim NW tickets using Hawaiian Miles.

There are probably other ways, but you get the idea...

But make sure you secure the seats by phoning the respective FF programs before actually moving the AMEX MR points over.

Found this on flyertalk...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470817

But I must confess, I don't follow all the jargon. Does "763" mean 767-300? Isn't this good news for us?

That new ATL-OGG service is called "business class" at least on Delta's web site. And from a look at the seat maps, it appears to be the same layout they use on their trans-Atlantic business class (6 rows of 2x2x2). I'd be surprised if they'd try to pull that bait and switch. At least I hope they don't.

Rex, I think it was you who directed Margaret and me to that wonderful hotel in Ghent. Still have fond memories of that.

This will be our first trip to Hawaii too. Not sure what to expect. At least we won't have to worry about a strong Euro or DCC, right?

Talked to Delta. They confirm 767-300 ER; the 30 seat onfiguration; in fact I was able to choose the seats for every segment, and never got back row (even though I have not yet committed to giving up the miles).

Two other questions: i think I can hoard some of my miles by the strategy of getting my ticket on my wife;s SkyMiles stash - - it will not "sell" an award of 70,000 with only 36,000 "in the bank", but it will do a "cash difference" for a 50,000 mile award from 36,000 - - so, one question... will it do 75,000 if she has, for example 46,000 (i.e., buy 29,000 outright? it's legal to "gift" her up to 30k per year by way of straight purchase from another SkyMiles account holder) - - this woud resuly in my ticket "costing" around $800 (29000 x .00275), which I would get reimbursed (and thus hang on to the MembershipRewards inventory we have)

2. Now I am curious if there is anyway to get OGG-KOA as award travel (for her?); AAdvantage says no inventory for coach as award, and there is no equivalent to "AAnyTime" on this partner. I have no miles with Hawaiian; any easy way to get some (the fare is only $163, so it's as much for the mental challenge of figuring out if I can do it, not so much the money). I suppose I need to investigate partnership arrangements with Aloha?

rex -

763 = 767-300 = GOOD!
764 = 767-400 = BAD!

DL has for a while used 764 for Hawaii, which is why what you found is such a surprise on Flyertalk. Just double check the itinerary on the date you want to fly.

Bottomline is this - there's a huge difference in the seats BETWEEN BusinessElite (DL), BusinessFirst (CO), World Business (NW); AND DL's domestic FC.

It seems like it isn't een just as simple as 763=767-300 - - due to the ER distinction (which flyertalk indicates and Delta onfirms over the phone, plus the seat map matches with the ER in the 30 seat config, i.e., row 6 removed for some reason, the so-called "Gulf Air" configuration).

But 764 bad? seatguru.com says that 7E,F are uncharacteristically good, and those are available to us, so i snagged them - - maybe still an okay plan.

rex,
The itinerary you have on hold with DL, is it ATL-OGG? ATL-OGG is operated on a Business Elite equipped aircraft (great seat pitch and recline, will be a very comfortable flight) but you also mention 764, or is that for your flight from Indiana to ATL?

Here's a thread on FC seats on the 764 - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...ferrerid=18562

You can only purchase miles for yourself up to 15K, but you can gift miles up to 30K. Note that this isn't the same as a mileage transfer between two Skymiles accounts, you're still buying the miles at $0.275. A mileage transfer allows you to transfer existing Skymiles from one account to another for $0.01, but I don't think you want to do this as the goal is to save your own miles, right?

For OGG-KOA, if Hawaiian has availability, you can transfer Amex MR points to HA's ff program. Coach interisland awards are 10K each. UA partners with Aloha and coach interisland awards are 5K each.