sylvia3

BTilk: I looked up "Yankee" (origin unknown) and the first definition was "resident of U.S.," the second was "resident of New England colonies."

BTilke

It's an outdated reference. There are few residents of those former colonies below what became the Mason-Dixon line who publicly consider themselves Yanks. These days, at most, Yankees refer to New Englanders and members of a certain NY baseball team (and perhaps, by extension, their fans). Most modern-day Americans are no more Yanks than most Brits are "limeys" or "redcoats."
Whenever I hear a European refer to all Americans as "Yanks" (and I live in Europe), then I know they are pretty clueless about Americans.

sylvia3

"Publicly?" You therefore consider "yank" a perjorative?

BTilke

http://members.aol.com/gordonkwok/yankee.html
note the reference to Yankees as "hideous creatures."

99% of Europeans who call Americans "Yankees" or even worse, "Yanks" have no idea what the word means or where the term originates. When I hear Europeans blethering about Yanks this and Yanks that (usually in a derisive and/or condescending tone), anything they have to say on the subject is immediately suspect.

Even worse offenders, though, are Americans who like to refer to *all* their fellow citizens as "Yanks" in the misguided assumption that it makes them sound European.

sylvia3

I know that in all the WW2 movies, other english-speaking non-U.S. soldiers always sounded pretty happy about Yanks being around (and don't forget "the Yanks are coming" for WW1). So, what do you prefer? Cracker? It also has English colonial origins...

BTilke

Well, Sylvia, life in Europe today is not like that shown in a 60 year old WW II propaganda movie. When today's Europeans speak of Yanks, it's hardly in the cuddly, admiring, rose-tinted way you're imagining. Come on over and live in Europe for a few years and hear how 21st century Europeans talk about "Yanks"--and no, I don't want to be called a cracker either. I prefer being called an American (or an expat). I don't call Brits limeys, I don't call the French frogs or Frenchies.

Orcas

I'm with Sylvia3 on this. In WW II the Brits were Tommys, while the Americans were Yanks. I don't consider it a pejoritive term at all.

Orcas

You've responded while I was writing. I will add that Yank can be used in a negative sense, as in Yankee go home, but I still don't think that, in and of itself, it is like frog or gook, or any of the bad names we put on groups. I'm not sure Limey is really a negative word, either. I think it was used during the Napoleonic Wars by the English themselves. I guess word use can change over time, but WW II was not that long ago in my recollection.

Barbara

You know, as recently as thirty years ago, the term "Brit" was considered insulting. It was what the IRA called British people in an effort to insult, saying the whole word was too much trouble. You have no hesitation using it now.

sylvia3

hmmm--I just conducted an informal poll of college sophomores (engineering majors of stellar character); not a single one thought that "Yank" was an insult, so I suppose you're living in the wrong place at the wrong time. (Though, from your posts, I don't think the 1940s were your cup of tea, either...)

obxgirl

sylva, Your informal poll is meaningless if you asked 19-20 year olds whether or not "Yank" is a pejorative.

Stellar characters aside, it's kind of like asking middle aged Brits about Barney. Out of date and out of context.

Get real.

BTilke

Sylvia, that is a completely pointless poll. Their "stellar character" is also completely irrelevant.
By the way, do you often badger college students with personal, non class-related questions on Sunday night? Kind of intrusive, don't you think?

Go back to your students and ask them these questions:
1. If you meet a group of Europeans for the first time, do you identify yourself as an American or as a Yank?
2. Do you think Southerners refer to themselves as Yanks when traveling overseas?
3. How much time have you spent traveling overseas and listening to or reading international news AND commentary on American lifestyles, business and government affairs?
4. Which European news and commentary programs do you follow on a regular basis?
5. How much time have you spent traveling and living overseas, out of the usual tourist hotspots?

Those questions will give you answers that actually have some relevance to the discussion.

I looked over the Sunday British papers yesterday and found several condescending or negative "Yank" comments in everything from the international affairs to the fashion and entertainment sections. I read the British and Belgian press almost everyday--most references to things Yankee or Yank are NOT complimentary.

When I worked for a communications agency in Switzerland, I was the only American--all the others were British or Swiss. Any references to something the "Yanks" did were ALWAYS negative. Saying that something or other was American (rather than Yankee) tended to be neutral in tone.

However, Sylvia, if in your overseas travels someone smirks and tells you something you do or say is "typical Yank", go ahead and take it as a compliment. You will be glowing over what you think is flattery and you will give the European a good laugh. A win-win situation.

Barbara, that's an interesting point about Brits. It may have been an insult, but the British themselves now make frequent references to Brits in a non insulting way (but sometimes as an insult, too). I hear it every day one way or another on British TV or out and about here in Berkshire. OTOH, I DON'T hear Americans, at home in the U.S., referring to themselves as Yanks in ordinary conversations.

Barbara

BTilke, it is quite interesting. It doesn't bother me or my siblings, but my mother's generation really dislike it and do consider it insulting. At the same time, her generation is the WWII generation that doesn't think of "Yanks" as an insult.

sylvia3

BTilke, such a chip on your shoulder! I asked the younger generation ("stellar character" was of course facetious; I meant to imply that they were literate, newspaper-reading thoughtful people, but didn't want to run on, as you did)to see if their opinion was similar to yours, mine, or the WW2 folks. I've certainly traveled, but not to Europe since our disgraceful invasion; having never been referred to as a "Yank" I certainly can't speak to whether it's meant derogatively (I wouldn't be surprised). I think you consider it so, regardless of contest or tone, because you are a "southerner." I have never referred to myself as a "northerner," nor have I ever heard someone from north of the Mason-Dixon line do so. The Civil War is over. You lost. Get over it.

sylvia3

Oh, and to set the matter straight: no one has ever called me typical anything, and I think I can tell when I'm being sneered at, and I never glow with pride. However, you seem very familiar with the phenomenon.
To sum, no need to get personal and snotty, just because I didn't think "yank" was a bad 4-letter word.

jorr

When I moved to Texas from Minnesota they referred to me as a yankee. They also cosider a Minnesotian to be the same as a New Englander. Seattle to Boston are all the same Yankees in their minds and they are serious about it. I would love to see the look on a Texan's face when he goes to England and is referred to as a Yankee!

BTilke

Sylvia, in another correction to your many false assumptions, I am not and never have been a southerner.
Jorr, for some reason, hardly anyone in Europe says Yankee any more but they do say Yanks. I HAVE seen Texans called Yanks in Europe and the expressions on their faces is pretty amusing.
Anyway, I'm done with this thread! I have some articles to finish, post a much overdo trip report to Vienna, and then get ready for a short trip to Paris, Brussels and Brugge....