We are 3 senior Australians arriving in LA on a cruise ship Dec.20th.We want to hire a car close to San Pedro, Long Beach and drive to San Francisco. We would like to see some of the wine growing areas (need advice which is most picturesque ) and the best of the coast. I am going mad trying to work out an itinerary because SO MUCH has been written about this trip that all I am getting out of my research is confusion. We are booked to fly back home via LA on the 28th December and have booked our last 4 nights at the SF Palace Hotel.That leaves us 4 nights to explore between the two cities.
We love to stay in places with lots of atmosphere, towns with character and charm. An indoor heated swimming pool would be a great bonus as one of us cannot walk a great distance so swimming is her main exercise.
Any advice as far as route to take, distances to do each day, and where to stay would be a great help. We don't want to pay the enormous rates that I have noticed in the Napa Valley for example. Somewhere around the US$200 per night would be fine.
Should our hotels be on the coast with daily drives to the wine area or should we stay in places like Paso Robles and Calistogo and do day trips to the coast?
Finally any advice on car rentals in the States. Things we should be wary of. I notice on most sites I have looked at no mention is made of insurance. Is this arranged when picking up the car ?
I apolagise for rambling so much but we do want our 8 days in the US to be very special and I know from experience how helpful everyone on the Fodor's site always are. Thanks.

I would suggest flying from Long Beach airport..which is close to where you land. Take one of the cheaper carriers, like Jet Blue or Southwest and fly into either Oakland or San Francisco. Otherwise,Its going to be a long 10 hour drive up the middle of the state which is boring. Consider staying in the Sonoma Valley, rather than NAPA. Its a direct 1 hour north of the Golden Gate bridge and I'd suggest Healdsburg, as a lovely small town in the middle of wine grapes. Its easy to take a little drive over to the NAPA valley if you feel you must see it. There are many Vacation Rentals by owner that you might want to check out. Its a cheaper way to go and gives you a bit more room, IMO. Check out www.vrbo.com/228670 as an example of what is available. There are many others, also in NAPA if that's what you end up doing. You can then decide to drive back to LA and take route #1 along the coast. It will be a long 10-11 hour drive from SF to LA but very pretty. Dec./Jan is our rainy season, there can be snow/ice over some of the mountain passes. Not many outdoor pools will be heated at that time of year. But there is plenty to see, and not a lot of tourists. So you should have an easy vacation.

I am from LA and recently took that drive to SF along the coast. I highly recommend that, since it's very beautiful. As kleroux says though, the time you're going is very cold and rainy. It is a LONG drive and much of it is single=lane each way; you have to be very careful because you literally cannot see anything coming from the opposite direction. We went during the summer and there were people riding their racing bikes and even sime runners along the way. Crazy. But the views are one in a million. We took the fast way back through the valley; very boring, hours go by and all you see are fields and trucks. But you get to see where all of our produce comes from. We left SF in the morning when it was 55 degrees; a few hours later, we were in 110 degree temps!

A few random thoughts . .

1) There will be relatively few places w/ indoor pools. Some major resorts have them but not that many.

2) Do I understand you are staying your last night in San Francisco, but flying out of LAX? That could be a recipe for disaster. It could be foggy in SF and flights out of SFO could be delayed or canceled. Driving back to LA on your departure date really isn't doable.

3) You cannot count on having good (or bad) weather. But this is an El Nino year so it could be much rainier than normal.

At first glance, if it was me -- I'd change your SF hotel reservation to the 1st 4 nights. I'd disembark the ship and fly to SFO from either Long Beach or LAX. Spend the 4 nights in SF and do one day trip to Sonoma IF the weather cooperates.

Then spend 3 nights traveling down the coast w/ stays in/near Carmel/Monterey, Cambria, Santa Barbara. Arrive in LA one day before your flight out.

I'd do hwy 1 all the way (well most of the way - hwy 101 will come into it closer to LA). BUT you'd need to keep informed of weather and road conditions. If it is stormy, hwy 1 can be very difficult - plus there can be road closures due to rock slides.

I agree with janisj - mostly.

The only disagreement would be day trips up to the wine country north of San Francisco. To do this you either need to rent a car while in San Francisco (which you probably won't want while doing other things in The City - parking is very expensive unless you do a 1 day rental) or take a "tour" (I'm not a big fan of tours). The Palace is smack in the middle of congestion/heavy traffic - so getting out of town would be somewhat of a challange (especially if you drive on the "wrong" side of the road in Australia). Also, compared to the Pacific Coast between Carmel & San Simeon, the Marin Coast (west of wine country) will be somewhat disappointing.

Since you seem to be on somewhat of a budget, I would visit the Pasa Robles wine area instead. It is a little more relaxed, and although we've never stayed there - it can't be any more expensive than the Napa or Sonoma areas.

So - I would do this:

1. Port in LA & immediatly catch a flight to SFO.

2. Visit San Francisco - 4 nights. The City will be quite interesting the week before Christmas. I posted a thread about my favorite things to do in the region:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...1&tid=35129049

3. Pick up a car & head south on 280 (after around 9:30 to avoid commute traffic) to 101 then follow the signs to Monterey. Stay 3 nights in Carmel. One of those days will be Christmas - but I think Carmel would be a fantatic place to spend Christmas day. Visit Pt Lobos just south of Carmel on Christmas (if it is open - otherwise visit if before Christmas).

4. Take a leisurly drive down the coast on the most beautiful stretch of scenic coastal highway that you're likely to find. Stop at Nepenthe in Big Sur for an early lunch. Arrive in Cambria or San Simeon in the late afternoon & stay overnight. Visit Hearst Castle if there is an early evening tour.

5. Next morning, take Hwy 46 over to the Paso Robles wine area & tour some wineries. Head to LAX & stay near the airport the last night.

Stu Dudley

Thank you so much to you four kind people for your replies. I am sure you have saved us a lot of stress. I will change our SF reservations at the Palace. Of course I knew the weather would be cold but didn't think about fog and flight cancellations.Was going to book a morning flight from SF to LA and our flight to Australia departs at 11.30pm which we thought was plenty of time. This sounds not to be so.

Stu your suggested itinerary seems perfect. Any recommendations of where to stay in Carmel and Cambria? Being Christmas we will be happy to splurge a bit and stay somewhere really nice. I will read your thread on SF, thanks for the link.

Janis , I feel quite stupid not thinking of the road conditions. Rock falls, Highway closures did not enter my head.

My husband and I did the coastal road trip 42 years ago ! We have wonderful memories but realise things will have changed. For my brother who is travelling with us , it is his first time. I just loved San Franscisco when there in the 60's thinking it one of my favourite US cities so I suppose I got carried away with spending Christmas day there.

Many thanks again for all your wonderful help. There may be further questions later. Cheers.

Carmel is only 1 3/4 hrs away from where we live, so we do a lot of day-trips there. I don't know much about hotels. Many of other Fodors folks do, however. Pacific Grove would be a good place to stay too - there are some nice Victorian B&Bs with bay views. I'm not a big fan of stayng in Monterey - I don't think the town is as quaint as Carmel or as interesting as Pacific Grove. The Cannery Row area of Monterey is very touristy & a bit tacky, IMO.

If your plane does not leave till 11:30 pm on a Monday during Christmas break, you shouldn't have any trouble getting back to LA if you follow your original plan. You can check the weather and the flight situation Monday morning, and even drive down to LAX with time to spare if things don't look good. There should not be too much commute traffic then - because of the holiday.

If you follow my suggested itinerary, another consideration would be to spend an extra day in either San Francisco or Carmel and then stay the last night in Cambria and drive down to LAX on the day of your flight home. I would not want to spend much time on the day of your flight around the LAX area. In fact, after spending 4-5 days in the Carmel/Big Sur coast area, I think LA would be a major "bummer" (is that American slang?) for a lot of people.

Stu Dudley

WOW Stu! I have just run down your San Francisco review. I will print it and study it very carefully on our 3 week sea voyage to the States. I think I know and love my home city but your knowledge is amazing. Many little bits bought back memories.
Tell me please is the Palace Hotel as nice as it looks on its web site? What is the area like ? Safety at night etc? I gather it isn't too far from Union Square. It seems to have had good reviews from what I have read. As I have to change our booking I am even considering an extra night in SF, making it 5 and thereby reducing our road trip to 3 nights/ days. What do you think about that ? Thanks again.

Stu, our postings must have crossed. So you think if we book a flight from SF around 10am we should be safe? Thats right. If flights are cancelled we can drive. We like the idea of disembarking our ship in Long Beach and throwing the luggage in the car and getting out of LA as soon as possible.
I remember Carmel as being so charming. Will check back on Fodors for hotels. I have noticed a nice looking B & B in Pacific Grove. It was a restored Victorian house and I think part of a chain of B&Bs in that area. I can't remember a thing about Pacific Grove. If it is a lovely area it must be my age! Look forward to hearing what you think about extending to 5 nights in SF. Cheers.

The Palace has a long history. Mostly burned down during the '06 earthquake & fire and then rebuilt. Major structural do-over again after the '89 quake (20 yrs ago yesterday). It has a grand garden court - which was originally the entrance to the hotel with enough room so horses could turn around. They have a fabulous Sunday Brunch under the stained glass dome in the Garden Court - but you'll miss that by a couple of hours unless you arrive very early on Sunday.

On Tuesday, take a City Guides (see my write-up) tour of the Palace Hotel
http://www.sfcityguides.org/desc.html?tour=61


The Palace is in an excellent location - walking distance to Union Sq, Ferry Building/Embarcadero, and the Financial District. There is a BART and Muni Metro station directly in front of the hotel on Market St. Consider taking BART from SFO to your hotel - but for 3 people a taxi is probably the best way. Perfectly safe - perhaps safer than Union Square.

As I mentioned above, you could do 5 nights in SF and 4 between SF & LA and arrive at LAX in time for your 11:30 pm flight. Check with LA people about traffic on Monday afternoon & evening on Dec 28 getting to LAX from the north.

Stu Dudley

The Palace is fine. Market Street isn't too terrific at night, but it is a very convenient location for transport and shopping.

Stu's plan is good. My suggestion for a day trip to Sonona was assuming you'd rent a car for just the one day (parking in SF is very VERY expensive). But by visiting Monterey County and Paso Robles, IMO you can skip Napa/Sonoma altogether.

Even w/ your late flight out of LAX, I would still flip SF to the front end of your trip and spend the last night in LA. Otherwise you face a very long/tiring travel day either driving or flying from Northern California and then flying on to Oz. Plus, if the weather is nasty for a few days, the impact on transport can snowball and effect flights for even longer. Hopefully you will have nice weather, but even so I'd want to be in LA the night before.

As for where to stay in Monterey/Carmel the choices are almost limitless. Check out this website -- it is two B&Bs in Carmel which have some moderately priced rooms (and more expensive ones too). The Carmel Garden Court is up in the center of the village, and it's sister San Antonio Inn is also in central Carmel but farther down the hill a block from the Beach. http://www.carmelgardencourtinn.com/

But there are many other places - hundreds really between Carmel, Pacific Grove, Monterey,etc.

If you fly out of Oakland rather than San Francisco you won't have as much of a problem with the weather. Oakland is just across the bay from SF. You should be able to fly with Southwest Air or another cheaper carrier and make it to LAX in plenty of time. I agree that Pacific Grove makes a nice place to stop...rather than Monterrey. Carmel is close by and easy to visit.

Thanks for your comments on the Palace. I have decided to leave things as originally planned and drive from LA. We will book another night at the Palace so will arrive Wednesday 23rd and check out Monday morning 28th for our early flight to LA.That will give us only 3 nights between LA & SF.

We can therefore book the Sunday brunch. Thanks for the tip. Any suggestions for a special place for Christmas Day lunch? I was thinking that they may have a special lunch in the Garden Court and will email them as the atmosphere would be memorable. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Its now 6.30 am here in Melbourne and I need to take a shower to really wake up. (mentioning this so you will excuse spelling and grammar mistakes) You have been so helpful and it is appreciated.

Thanks Janis for the Carmel link. Kleroux, your idea of flying out of Oakland sounds good because Janis we really would like to be in SF for Christmas.
How long in a cab would it take from our hotel to the Oakland airport ? I would like to fly with Southwest as they have the most generous luggage allowance from what I can tell. We will have quite a lot having been on a 3 week cruise and having to pack both summer and winter clothes. I will check their flights from Oakland and as long as we can get an early one that sounds a good idea.
Janis we arn't too worried about being tired for our flight home as we are very lucky to have frequent flyer award flights up front with flat beds, so plan to sleep most of the way home.

>>Stu, our postings must have crossed. So you think if we book a flight from SF around 10am we should be safe?>>

That will get you to LAX 12 hours before you catch the next flight. What in the world would you do at LAX for 12 hours??? I would allow 3 hrs between arrival & international departure - 4-6 hrs if you want to play it real safe. If a freak storm hits and flights are cancelled or seriously delayed - you can always drive to LA.

Stu Dudley

I certainly don't love spending time at airports BUT you have all, quite rightly , made me a little nervous about weather conditions.
If we get to the airport and find the flights are cancelled and we then have to arrange for a hire car , get out of a strange city etc. Add to this the 6 hours, is that the time it takes to drive to LAX ? Well , I would prefer not to have any time worries .
Perhaps I will go for a noon flight. There seems to be plenty out of Oakland as well.

I suggest you try for flights to the Long Beach airport. It is a lot less busy than LAX and is a jewel. They have retained the original Art Deco structure while adding on as necessary to accommodate the increased air traffic and security requirements. I believe it is a Jet Blue hub. And of course Long Beach and San Pedro are neighbors.

>>

Except they decided to drive from San Pedro to San Francisco, and fly back in time for their international departure from LAX.

Piri, the Palace is in a perfectly fine neighborhood. There are plenty of restaurants in walking or quick taxi distance, too. Will you be in San Francisco on a Saturday morning? If so, don't miss the "fresh market" at the Ferry Bldg., which is not far from the hotel (about 6 blocks). Taxis are readily available at all the hotels.

Let us know if you want some restaurant recommendations!

Oh yeah. I got mixed up.

My in-laws have visited us for Christmas for the past 27 years. I don't recall them ever missing a flight here or back home (to Indiana) because of weather in San Francisco or California. I think only twice there were delays because of weather in the US Mid West (Chicago or St Louis - or triggered by east coast flight delays). Two weeks ago, my wife's flight back from Indiana was delayed for 3 hours because of a once-in-a-three-decades October storm in San Francisco.

SFO is right next to the 101 freeway - which takes you to LAX. Or you can travel over the San Mateo bridge (just south of SFO) to get there an hour or so faster on Hwy 5.

Don't get too worried about flight cancellations or major delays on SF to LA flights.

I would have Christmas dinner at One Market. They are serving Thanksgiving dinner, so I assume they'll have Christmas dinner too.

Stu Dudley