Does a City Have to be diverse to be good?
Sep 5th, 2001, 01:42 PM
#22
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Jonny's apparent lack of exposure to diversity leads him to conclude that everyone in SF either falls into an OJ or a Harvy M. category. Notwithstanding these prejudiced overtones, he might like to opine on the divorce or dropout or addiction rates among the big ethnic Chinese or Latino populations of SF. Diverse cities with diverse populations shouldn't be stereotyped. One might ask, despite ND's native heritage, how many Native Americans live in Bismarck? (Answer - too small a number to register with the census.) That doesn't make Bismarck a bad place to live, it just makes it a white one.
Sep 5th, 2001, 01:56 PM
#23
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Yup, L, I was afraid this would happen. Andy's second post really says a lot.
"I like people of all races and try to mix with them when I travel ..." Sounds like Andy's saying he's willing to be around people of different races, so long as they don't get too close to home.
Then, Andy tells us that most people he knows want to be with their own kind, and those of us who profess a different view are the exception. Examples given are from high school and the local mall. We are also told that the fact that wedding receptions are not diverse means people don't like diversity. Never mind that weddings are family events, and families tend to be of the same race and religion.
Then we are told that White-dominated cities do best in quality of life studies. But of course, we ignore the fact that there are many white-dominated places that are dreadful places to live.
So what's the biggest flaw in Andy's reasoning? Maybe it is the assumption that if a person spends time with people who are similar but also claims to value diversity, then that person is being disingenuous or is odd. Those of us who like and appreciate diversity sometimes do spend time with people who are similar to us. That does not in any way undermine our appreciation for diversity. If you were to look into a Baptist Church on a Sunday and see nothing but Baptists there, would you conclude that the worshipers do not value religious diversity? Or would you conclude that they simply have a shared bond and are spending some time together?
Andy, if you get out more, you'll see that a great number of people don't jump to conclusions about a person based on their race and do enjoy diversity. In my opinion, when large cities have problems, it is not due to a "culture clash" or diversity. It is due largely to socio-economic issues and problems, not just race.
"I like people of all races and try to mix with them when I travel ..." Sounds like Andy's saying he's willing to be around people of different races, so long as they don't get too close to home.
Then, Andy tells us that most people he knows want to be with their own kind, and those of us who profess a different view are the exception. Examples given are from high school and the local mall. We are also told that the fact that wedding receptions are not diverse means people don't like diversity. Never mind that weddings are family events, and families tend to be of the same race and religion.
Then we are told that White-dominated cities do best in quality of life studies. But of course, we ignore the fact that there are many white-dominated places that are dreadful places to live.
So what's the biggest flaw in Andy's reasoning? Maybe it is the assumption that if a person spends time with people who are similar but also claims to value diversity, then that person is being disingenuous or is odd. Those of us who like and appreciate diversity sometimes do spend time with people who are similar to us. That does not in any way undermine our appreciation for diversity. If you were to look into a Baptist Church on a Sunday and see nothing but Baptists there, would you conclude that the worshipers do not value religious diversity? Or would you conclude that they simply have a shared bond and are spending some time together?
Andy, if you get out more, you'll see that a great number of people don't jump to conclusions about a person based on their race and do enjoy diversity. In my opinion, when large cities have problems, it is not due to a "culture clash" or diversity. It is due largely to socio-economic issues and problems, not just race.
Sep 5th, 2001, 04:27 PM
#25
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XXX
You're absolutely right about Bismarck...I didn't even notice that, even though Andy spelled it wrong and I spelled it right. I'm sure that spelling Bismarck correctly would be something that a Bismarcker would be quite sensitive to. Nevertheless it did provoke an interesting discussion.
You're absolutely right about Bismarck...I didn't even notice that, even though Andy spelled it wrong and I spelled it right. I'm sure that spelling Bismarck correctly would be something that a Bismarcker would be quite sensitive to. Nevertheless it did provoke an interesting discussion.
Sep 6th, 2001, 04:48 AM
#27
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Ever wonder why Cities dominated my minorities are considered diverse and good. For example, Miami or LA (about 75% hispanic), why would these Cities be any better than a City that is 75% white?
If diversity is so great how come 90% of people live in Cities that are dominated by one race? (including Cities dominated by blacks and hispanics)
I think most people prefer to be around people like themselves, ethically, culturally, financially, etc. (Most people except for the politically correct liberals on the Fodors message board).
If diversity is so great how come 90% of people live in Cities that are dominated by one race? (including Cities dominated by blacks and hispanics)
I think most people prefer to be around people like themselves, ethically, culturally, financially, etc. (Most people except for the politically correct liberals on the Fodors message board).
Sep 6th, 2001, 05:05 AM
#28
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Well, Roger, why not post that question and read the replies. In this instance, the issue is whether someone like Andy, purportedly from the hinterlands of ND, has actually experienced life outside a very rural area. He's armed with the internet, so he has now an opportunity to reach beyond the cows and chickens with his take on diversity ... up to this point that term probably being more allied in his mind with how they plant watermelons among the corn rows. Enlightenment, like the rains, will evidently will be late again this year. Ciao
Sep 6th, 2001, 06:55 AM
#29
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Diversity? Ethnic cleansing? My, what a nice politically correct group you are!
Why should the quality of a city be tied to diversity in the first place? This whole topic reeks of the old "some of my best friends are _________".
The quality of a city is based solely on what you as a person know and like. The city could have everything or it could have nothing. It doesn't matter who lives there. If it all works for you it's good; if it doesn't it's not. There is not, and should not be, a single standard for everyone.
When you discuss a large city and "diversity", do the homeless count in that equation or are you only talking about taking a friend for some late afternoon dim sum and tea in Chinatown?
Why should the quality of a city be tied to diversity in the first place? This whole topic reeks of the old "some of my best friends are _________".
The quality of a city is based solely on what you as a person know and like. The city could have everything or it could have nothing. It doesn't matter who lives there. If it all works for you it's good; if it doesn't it's not. There is not, and should not be, a single standard for everyone.
When you discuss a large city and "diversity", do the homeless count in that equation or are you only talking about taking a friend for some late afternoon dim sum and tea in Chinatown?
Sep 6th, 2001, 07:34 AM
#30
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Maybe I am missing something here but, to me, LACK OF DIVERSITY DOES NOT EQUAL RACISM!!! They are separate issues. I live in a rural part of Georgia and we are not homogeously white. In fact, the number of African Americans in my area is only slightly less than the number of Caucasions. I don't see these to groups as different at all, in fact there is much similarity and very little diversity. I do not go to to the movie theater or grocery and hear different languages spoken, I don't see cultural or ethnic differences. There are no jewish people, no portuguese, very few indian, hindu, or islam. Everyone goes to the same southern baptist churches, wears the same Hilfiger clothes, shops at the same stores at the mall, eat at the same McDonalds. We have no eithiopian, Thai, cuban, sushi, etc. restaurants. We have two chinese restaurants in a town of 60,000. one of these is mall type fast food and really shouldn't even qualify. That being said, black and white live together, there is little racism, but as you an see, even less diversity. We are in a quiet safe area with great schools, a low cost of living, and much greenery. When I get my hankering for something different or "diverse", I take a day trip or even overnight to Atlanta which is only 3 hours away. I believe my town is good. While we are not diverse, we are not racists either!
Sep 6th, 2001, 08:07 AM
#31
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Gee, Leone, you seem to have a condescending attitude towards rural people in the hinterlands. When you eat supper, where do you think the food comes from? Beamed down from Scotty on the Enterprise? It's grown and made by people you apparently despise. Farmers, ranchers and the rest are far more important to life than lawyers, public relations specialists, psychologists, travel agents and the other riff-raff that seems to dominate this site.
Sep 6th, 2001, 08:28 AM
#32
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All valid points, Roger. Especially the travel agent riff-raff ... and in any event, what the heck are those professionals doing on our amateur site anyway. But whatever my biases may or may not be, and you're not close, I think we can both agree ND is really in there somewhere, in the mid part, where light is usually a bit dimmed by the distance and general climate, and anyone named Andy has just gotta be red, or at least a pinkish tinge. Now, be fair ... on that much I know we can agree. Besides, Andy doesn't sound much like a farmer ... more like a seed and feed guy at the local co-op. You know, HS Challenged. Good to make contact again, and have a good day. Now, allow me to disengage my toungue in cheek. Ah, that feels better. Ciao
Sep 6th, 2001, 11:25 AM
#33
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This thread proves to me that what I've suspected is true: that there are a collection of reactionary, racist, sexist, paranoid, fascist wackos who hover over this forum looking for yet another opportunity to take up their ideological cudgel and slam it down over and over. The amount of time they seem to have to devote to carrying on and on suggests they are social isolates with a lot of anger and paranoia to nurture.
At least if they're on this forum, they aren't out there causing trouble. But lord I do get tired of all this trouble-making crap.
At least if they're on this forum, they aren't out there causing trouble. But lord I do get tired of all this trouble-making crap.
Sep 6th, 2001, 12:56 PM
#35
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Can't a place be diverse with a majority white population? Why does there have to be a huge poulation of greeks and turks in a City to make it a vital place?
For most of the countries history we were a white dominated culture but then the business commmunity lobbied congress to bring in lots of third world people so they could get cheap labor. In the name of diversity our cities are being overun by 3rd world people with hardly any education who live 20 to a home. They now do our blue collar jobs at minimum wage leaving the people who built our cities out in the snow. Whites are flooding out of these diverse and politically correct Cities to the far out suburbs and clogging the roads back into the City for work.
Of couse the people in our politically correct world can not admit that they are moving because of race but use poltical code words like better schools, etc.
Is this a racists view?
For most of the countries history we were a white dominated culture but then the business commmunity lobbied congress to bring in lots of third world people so they could get cheap labor. In the name of diversity our cities are being overun by 3rd world people with hardly any education who live 20 to a home. They now do our blue collar jobs at minimum wage leaving the people who built our cities out in the snow. Whites are flooding out of these diverse and politically correct Cities to the far out suburbs and clogging the roads back into the City for work.
Of couse the people in our politically correct world can not admit that they are moving because of race but use poltical code words like better schools, etc.
Is this a racists view?
Sep 6th, 2001, 01:01 PM
#36
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Andy: I bet at least when you walk into a McDonalds and ask for an ice tea, they don't ask you what is that.
I would like to be able to do that in our capital.
I walked in a McDonalds very near the capital one day and ordered iced tea.
The guy just looked at me like I was crazy.
I asked again, he said"What?".
This kept on a little, I even tried to explain what it was and then gave up and got a coke.
I would like to be able to do that in our capital.
I walked in a McDonalds very near the capital one day and ordered iced tea.
The guy just looked at me like I was crazy.
I asked again, he said"What?".
This kept on a little, I even tried to explain what it was and then gave up and got a coke.
Sep 6th, 2001, 01:34 PM
#37
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Pam: "In the name of diversity our cities are being overun by 3rd world people with hardly any education who live 20 to a home. They now do our blue collar jobs at minimum wage leaving the people who built our cities out in the snow... Is this a racists view? "
Let's analyze your statement:
1. "In the name of diversity our cities are being overun by 3rd world people" - last time I checked people, once within our borders, were free to move where they wanted; I can't think any US city that is forcibly shipping in immigrants
2. "3rd world people with hardly any education" - you mean all those Indian programmers in Silicon Valley and Asian research scientists in places like Boston and Chicago?
3. "who live 20 to a home" - the last time I saw a reference like this had to do with Little Italy circa 1905.
4. "They now do our blue collar jobs at minimum wage" - I suppose there was a period in our history when the newest folks off the boat got the highest paying, least menial jobs? Enlighten me.
5. "leaving the people who built our cities out in the snow" - you mean you? Funny, I don't seem to recall that any single person or group can lay claim to single-handedly building every city. Would you deny someone the right to work because he or she does not match your skin color?
6. "Is this a racists view?" - let me answer this way: please, please (oh please, God) tell me you don't have kids.
Let's analyze your statement:
1. "In the name of diversity our cities are being overun by 3rd world people" - last time I checked people, once within our borders, were free to move where they wanted; I can't think any US city that is forcibly shipping in immigrants
2. "3rd world people with hardly any education" - you mean all those Indian programmers in Silicon Valley and Asian research scientists in places like Boston and Chicago?
3. "who live 20 to a home" - the last time I saw a reference like this had to do with Little Italy circa 1905.
4. "They now do our blue collar jobs at minimum wage" - I suppose there was a period in our history when the newest folks off the boat got the highest paying, least menial jobs? Enlighten me.
5. "leaving the people who built our cities out in the snow" - you mean you? Funny, I don't seem to recall that any single person or group can lay claim to single-handedly building every city. Would you deny someone the right to work because he or she does not match your skin color?
6. "Is this a racists view?" - let me answer this way: please, please (oh please, God) tell me you don't have kids.
Sep 6th, 2001, 01:52 PM
#38
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Thank you for that brilliant analysis, Mr. Liam from Beantown. Of course you can't understand the gist of Pam's post when you live in the city that's most famous for segregation, racism and their all-white basketball team. Come down to some areas in the big cities if you would like a better understading of what's really going on.
Sep 6th, 2001, 03:33 PM
#39
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Well that "L" does it again today: Creating havoc by twisting a poster's original message, calling them trolls, putting himself on a pedestal, yaddah yaddah yaddah.
Today, you have come off as a BORE, you boar. You don't have wit, you twit. So stop your insults before a backlash begins.
Oh, and is "L" different from a "Leone" different from a "Laughting Out Loud-mouth" different from a "Ciao-derhead?" (The end is near, oh full-of-thyself one!)
Today, you have come off as a BORE, you boar. You don't have wit, you twit. So stop your insults before a backlash begins.
Oh, and is "L" different from a "Leone" different from a "Laughting Out Loud-mouth" different from a "Ciao-derhead?" (The end is near, oh full-of-thyself one!)
