Dallas or Houston. Can't decide!
Sep 27th, 2004, 10:14 AM
#61
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Thanks tx_girl for your input.
I read about the I-10 Katy freeway expansion project. I realize that the Katy Freeway is probably the worst clogged freeway in Houston. Once I move, I am planning to completely avoid living in Katy or the far western suburbs. Maybe in 8 or 10 years when the I-10 is 24 lanes and is complete I may consider it
The areas I thought about are The Woodlands and Spring in the north. I also like Tomball and Cypress in the North West. It looks like there isn?t much construction on the way coming from those areas and getting to downtown. Also the direct connector ramps from the Tomball Parkway to Beltway 8 are supposed to be complete by know. I also heard that the Hardy Tollway never congests!
I saw a lot of nice houses in those areas that were decently priced. I am planning to check those areas out when I visit Houston soon and hoping to find out that they are nice neighborhoods.
Oh by the way, pepper131 mentioned Ikea. I am not a big fan of Ikea, but It?s nice to know that its there! I like most of their designs & styles but I notice they use cheap materials often.
I read about the I-10 Katy freeway expansion project. I realize that the Katy Freeway is probably the worst clogged freeway in Houston. Once I move, I am planning to completely avoid living in Katy or the far western suburbs. Maybe in 8 or 10 years when the I-10 is 24 lanes and is complete I may consider it
The areas I thought about are The Woodlands and Spring in the north. I also like Tomball and Cypress in the North West. It looks like there isn?t much construction on the way coming from those areas and getting to downtown. Also the direct connector ramps from the Tomball Parkway to Beltway 8 are supposed to be complete by know. I also heard that the Hardy Tollway never congests!
I saw a lot of nice houses in those areas that were decently priced. I am planning to check those areas out when I visit Houston soon and hoping to find out that they are nice neighborhoods.
Oh by the way, pepper131 mentioned Ikea. I am not a big fan of Ikea, but It?s nice to know that its there! I like most of their designs & styles but I notice they use cheap materials often.
Sep 27th, 2004, 10:37 AM
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I was in the NW over the weekend, and the Beltway8/TX249 junction is definitely not finished yet. It's actively being built, and all traffic has to exit the Sam Houston tollway during some times because of the construction.
For those coming from Downtown, you can exit 249/West Mt. Houston off I-45, and go up that route, instead of staying on I-45 to the Beltway. It's a 6-lane road (3 each direction), and even though there are some traffic lights, speed limit is 55mph.
For those coming from Downtown, you can exit 249/West Mt. Houston off I-45, and go up that route, instead of staying on I-45 to the Beltway. It's a 6-lane road (3 each direction), and even though there are some traffic lights, speed limit is 55mph.
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:43 PM
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Wow! Falafel, it seems that you are speeking on my behalf since I am also looking for houses in the exact same areas, I mean, north and north west although people tell me that The Wooldlands is about 40 minutes from where I'll be working. Also, The Woodlands have high tax rate/fees/dues. I am also considering SugarLand. I heard that I-59 isnt too bad and it should take me 30 minutes to get to Sugarland from Beltway 8/Westheimer.
Of course, if I live in north/north west, then I would need to take Sam Houston Toll way and thus pay toll as well.
Sep 27th, 2004, 03:27 PM
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Falafel - if you are looking in the Woodlands or Spring, you are not looking in Houston. If you live and work in that area, it will be fine, but if you work in Houston then count on at least an hour each way, even using the toll roads, to commute. Add more if ther eis a wreck. Have you considered the Memorial area? Not the far west part, but the area just outside the Loop, below IH- 10 (the infamous Katy freeway) and above Westheimer? There are some great neighborhoods around there. Inside the looop, the Heights is sort of dicey - kind of spotty even within the same block (remember, zoning is a curse word in Houston) not unlike parts of Adams Morgan - but you can find some nice places there, with price tags that reflect the desirability of being closer in to town. Sugarland has been mentioned, but it is the archetype of a cookie- cutter McMansion developers dream - the HOA even dictates how many flower pots of what style and color you can put on your porch!
Sep 27th, 2004, 06:18 PM
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wow! wait a minute, so you're saying that it's actually about one hour drive from Spring to 610 loop?
That distance is actually 20 miles or less. That's not a good thing if thats the case!
Will leaving at 6AM from the burbs and heading toward 610 loop beat the rush hour?
That distance is actually 20 miles or less. That's not a good thing if thats the case!
Will leaving at 6AM from the burbs and heading toward 610 loop beat the rush hour?
Sep 27th, 2004, 07:33 PM
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Neither. But, I'd move to Austin in a heartbeat.
I did move to Dallas for a job some years back. Loved the job. Could not stand the cold winter wind whipping down the prarie (sometimes it took two people to open the large glass doors of the office building). No hills or trees.
Humidity is bad in both, but it can be bad in DC too.
We escaped to the hill country every chance we could. Loved the topography. Loved the varied options. It was like being in a different country.
Went back to Austin on business last month. Ate at Oasis, overlooking Lake Travis. We could not believe we were in Texas!
I did move to Dallas for a job some years back. Loved the job. Could not stand the cold winter wind whipping down the prarie (sometimes it took two people to open the large glass doors of the office building). No hills or trees.
Humidity is bad in both, but it can be bad in DC too.
We escaped to the hill country every chance we could. Loved the topography. Loved the varied options. It was like being in a different country.
Went back to Austin on business last month. Ate at Oasis, overlooking Lake Travis. We could not believe we were in Texas!
Sep 28th, 2004, 02:43 AM
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Hey Falafel, or anyone else who is planning to move, check out this website www.movingscam.com. Lots of useful info on how to avoid being ripped off by moving companies!
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:43 PM
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Wow! I have never seen such a polite discussion on the relative merit of the Big D or H-town! Usually it breaks down into name calling. I have lived in Houston and Galveston most of my life, but also lived in Dallas for four years. It was my college town and I loved it for that, so I can see merits to both cities.
On the character of the people, Houstonians are more laid back and friendlier than Dallasites, and there is a lot of nouveau-riche snobbery in Dallas (of course, I went to SMU, so I saw more of that than most). Still, Dallasites are Texans, and much friendlier than most Yankees.
Houston is also much more culturally diverse, sporting very large Asian and Latino populations. Whether this is a plus or minus is up to you, but I (an anglo) find it a plus.
Dallas and Houston are both very cosmopolitan towns, but Houston has a better arts scene than Dallas. So does Fort Worth. Dallas's Fair Park and the Meyerson are really inadequate performing arts venues, especially compared to Fort Worth's Bass Hall or Houston's Wortham, Jones, or Hobby venues. Fort Worth's Kimball and Houston's Menil and MFAH blow the doors off any of Dallas's visual arts venues
Houston has more restaurants per mile than any other city in America, and some of the best restaurants in the country, too, but Dallas has so many great restaurants that you won't notice a difference in dining scene between them.
Houston is constantly touting its newly renovated downtown, but I live in downtown Houston and I really think that though our skyline is prettier, the Dallas downtown, once you are in it, is prettier, bigger, and more interesting. Fort Worth definitely has the most fun downtown for going out.
As far as geography goes, Houston comes out ahead, at least for diversity. Dallas is all flat prairie with the occasional barely noticable hill, and if you see a tree it is because someone planted it - they don't grow naturally on the Great Plains. Houston is at the center the confluence of four different biomes: the dense pine woods to the north and northeast, the post oak crosstimbers open woodland to the northwest, the Katy prairie to the west, and the coastal plain to the south. The Galveston Bay system is great for boating and fishing, and Galveston Island has nice beaches (the poster who snarked them has obviously only seen those in front of the Seawall and never bothered to drive a couple of miles to West Beach).
The boating options are obviously much better in a coastal town like Houston, but Dallas has some nice lakes like Grapvine or Ray Hubbard.
I would say overall, Dallas is a prettier town in terms of layout and upkeep, the "manmade" features, and Houston has more natural beauty. Dallas gets brown and burned out in the dry summer, and brown and leafless in the winter, but Houston stays green all year thanks to the numerous native pines.
Traffic is about equal in both cities, but Houston is starting to get a slight edge.
As far as weather is concerned, it's all a matter of what you are used to. Houston does have higher humidity than Dallas (which I don't really mind) but actual temperatures get significantly higher in Dallas in the summer. Houston's winters are milder than Dallas's because of the influence of the Gulf. This can be a good or bad thing. Dallas gets a nicer fall than Houston, but those Canadian Northers whip unhindered down the plains into Dallas in the winter and can be pretty painful.
Overall, I agree that the two best cities to live in in Texas are Austin and Fort Worth. With Fort Worth, you also have the option of working for a Dallas-based company since many of them are located in the mid-cities region. Austin does not have as stable an economy as Dallas or Houston (which sometimes is not saying much!). You either have to work for the state government or the University. I have a lot of out-of-work friends who used to work for Dell or internet startups. When the bubble burst, the IT industry in Austin really took a hit.
I work in the environmental field so Houston is the place for me. Don't let the poster who talked about smog fool you though. We don't have smog, and our air pollution is not visible and does not smell.
Here's a little tongue in cheeck review I wrote on Houston in Epinions:
http://www.epinions.com/content_140394991236
On the character of the people, Houstonians are more laid back and friendlier than Dallasites, and there is a lot of nouveau-riche snobbery in Dallas (of course, I went to SMU, so I saw more of that than most). Still, Dallasites are Texans, and much friendlier than most Yankees.
Houston is also much more culturally diverse, sporting very large Asian and Latino populations. Whether this is a plus or minus is up to you, but I (an anglo) find it a plus.
Dallas and Houston are both very cosmopolitan towns, but Houston has a better arts scene than Dallas. So does Fort Worth. Dallas's Fair Park and the Meyerson are really inadequate performing arts venues, especially compared to Fort Worth's Bass Hall or Houston's Wortham, Jones, or Hobby venues. Fort Worth's Kimball and Houston's Menil and MFAH blow the doors off any of Dallas's visual arts venues
Houston has more restaurants per mile than any other city in America, and some of the best restaurants in the country, too, but Dallas has so many great restaurants that you won't notice a difference in dining scene between them.
Houston is constantly touting its newly renovated downtown, but I live in downtown Houston and I really think that though our skyline is prettier, the Dallas downtown, once you are in it, is prettier, bigger, and more interesting. Fort Worth definitely has the most fun downtown for going out.
As far as geography goes, Houston comes out ahead, at least for diversity. Dallas is all flat prairie with the occasional barely noticable hill, and if you see a tree it is because someone planted it - they don't grow naturally on the Great Plains. Houston is at the center the confluence of four different biomes: the dense pine woods to the north and northeast, the post oak crosstimbers open woodland to the northwest, the Katy prairie to the west, and the coastal plain to the south. The Galveston Bay system is great for boating and fishing, and Galveston Island has nice beaches (the poster who snarked them has obviously only seen those in front of the Seawall and never bothered to drive a couple of miles to West Beach).
The boating options are obviously much better in a coastal town like Houston, but Dallas has some nice lakes like Grapvine or Ray Hubbard.
I would say overall, Dallas is a prettier town in terms of layout and upkeep, the "manmade" features, and Houston has more natural beauty. Dallas gets brown and burned out in the dry summer, and brown and leafless in the winter, but Houston stays green all year thanks to the numerous native pines.
Traffic is about equal in both cities, but Houston is starting to get a slight edge.
As far as weather is concerned, it's all a matter of what you are used to. Houston does have higher humidity than Dallas (which I don't really mind) but actual temperatures get significantly higher in Dallas in the summer. Houston's winters are milder than Dallas's because of the influence of the Gulf. This can be a good or bad thing. Dallas gets a nicer fall than Houston, but those Canadian Northers whip unhindered down the plains into Dallas in the winter and can be pretty painful.
Overall, I agree that the two best cities to live in in Texas are Austin and Fort Worth. With Fort Worth, you also have the option of working for a Dallas-based company since many of them are located in the mid-cities region. Austin does not have as stable an economy as Dallas or Houston (which sometimes is not saying much!). You either have to work for the state government or the University. I have a lot of out-of-work friends who used to work for Dell or internet startups. When the bubble burst, the IT industry in Austin really took a hit.
I work in the environmental field so Houston is the place for me. Don't let the poster who talked about smog fool you though. We don't have smog, and our air pollution is not visible and does not smell.
Here's a little tongue in cheeck review I wrote on Houston in Epinions:
http://www.epinions.com/content_140394991236
Sep 28th, 2004, 03:10 PM
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Falafel - Loop 610 covers a lot of area - to which part will you commute?
Reefmonkey - you had me nodding my head in agreement with your well reasoned thoughts, then I got to "We don't have smog, and our air pollution is not visible and does not smell."
When waw the last time you went outside? If there is no smog, then what is that brown cloud so prominently visible when flying in? And in terms of smell, that depends on which way the wind is blowing.
Reefmonkey - you had me nodding my head in agreement with your well reasoned thoughts, then I got to "We don't have smog, and our air pollution is not visible and does not smell."
When waw the last time you went outside? If there is no smog, then what is that brown cloud so prominently visible when flying in? And in terms of smell, that depends on which way the wind is blowing.
Sep 28th, 2004, 04:09 PM
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Reefmonkey, thanks for so much useful information on the topic. As I have mentioned a couple of times before, I prefer green and leafy over brown and leafless so Houston wins for me. I am also not a big fan of cold, whipping winds but can live with humidity. Again, a plus point for Houston.
So, from you post, it appears that north, northwest and northeast are greener and wooded as compared to other parts of Houston, right? I dont see many housing communities in the northeast though. Isnt that the area where the refineries are?
You mentioned pine and oak. What about palm trees? Given the subtropical climate of Houston, I suppose that it wpuld support palm trees. Someone mentioned that they have planted many palm trees in the Clear Lake area.
About zoning, we all know that Houston does not have zoning laws. What about the nearby cities such as Katy, Sugarland, Woodlands, Spring etc? Do they also not have zoning laws?
So, from you post, it appears that north, northwest and northeast are greener and wooded as compared to other parts of Houston, right? I dont see many housing communities in the northeast though. Isnt that the area where the refineries are?
You mentioned pine and oak. What about palm trees? Given the subtropical climate of Houston, I suppose that it wpuld support palm trees. Someone mentioned that they have planted many palm trees in the Clear Lake area.
About zoning, we all know that Houston does not have zoning laws. What about the nearby cities such as Katy, Sugarland, Woodlands, Spring etc? Do they also not have zoning laws?
Sep 28th, 2004, 06:13 PM
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Clear Lake: more palm trees and tropical air/sky, little apparent zoning outside of a few master-planned type communities, very high humidity if you are on the water; Woodlands: Columbia, Maryland in a pine forest in Texas. If you like living in a pine forest and don't like wide open spaces this is for you. Sugarland: master-planned communities and would appear zoned to a visitor from the D.C. area. Oak trees and some planted palms. Much closer to Houston than the other two above.
Sep 28th, 2004, 08:47 PM
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Let me add the Pearland area: home to several master planned communities, new homes and older homes, 15-20 minutes to the Medical Center, 30-40 minutes to downtown, and 30-40 minutes to Clear Lake/ Kemah boardwalk. Lots of palms trees (a few in my own backyard), but not as wooded as the Woodlands. Not as bad a commute as to Sugarland (Hwy 59 can't handle all the Sugarlanders).
Sep 28th, 2004, 10:37 PM
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Hey Falafel, in case you dont know, I have responded to your email.
spunki, does Perland has zoning laws? Pardon my obsession with zoning laws but I think they make urban development look prettier and organized, as opposed to hodge-podge and unplanned development that is common in Houston.
By the way, check out this website www.city-data.com. It has good information on various cities including median household income, median home value, education level of the residents, demographic data etc. You can use this to compare and contrast different areas such as Sugarland, Perland, woodlands, katy etc.
Also check out http://www.chron.com/content/chronic.../overview.html on additional info on different neighborhoods.
spunki, does Perland has zoning laws? Pardon my obsession with zoning laws but I think they make urban development look prettier and organized, as opposed to hodge-podge and unplanned development that is common in Houston.
By the way, check out this website www.city-data.com. It has good information on various cities including median household income, median home value, education level of the residents, demographic data etc. You can use this to compare and contrast different areas such as Sugarland, Perland, woodlands, katy etc.
Also check out http://www.chron.com/content/chronic.../overview.html on additional info on different neighborhoods.
Sep 29th, 2004, 04:08 AM
#77
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gzseattle, I think you worry about zoning too much! If no zoning scares you, then you can always live in a master planned community. Like many responders to this thread mentioned, these communities - that are master planned - have powerful HOA (Home Owners Associations) which control practically everything about neighborhoods. Check out this article:
http://www.libertyhaven.com/personal...tonzoning.html
Oh, by the way, the link you mentioned (movingscam.org) is excellent! Thanks!
http://www.libertyhaven.com/personal...tonzoning.html
Oh, by the way, the link you mentioned (movingscam.org) is excellent! Thanks!
Sep 29th, 2004, 07:47 AM
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qzseattle - Actually, all the refineries are southeast, not northeast of downtown, in Deer Park and Pasadena, all along the ship channel.
There actually are quite a few nice subdivisions in the northwest, around Lake Houston, like Atascasita.
The pine and oak are the native species here. There is only one species of palm that is native to the Houston area, and it mostly grows on the floor of the pine forest. It is slow growing and doesn't have much of a trunk. LOTS of palms are planted around here though, and do quite well. The most common palm is the sabal palm, and many of the old neighborhoods in the city have lots of grand old date palms growing in them. A lot of people are planting queen palms, too, which I think are the most tropical looking, most like a coconut palm.
The Clear Lake area is really nice and has a maritime, kind of tropical look, and reminds me of South Florida (where my mom grew up). It also doesn't feel as limited as the suburbs in terms of nice non-chain restaurants and bars. My brother keeps his boat there. He just moved back to Houston from South Riding, VA, and used to boat on the Ptomac and Chesapeake Bay, and he says the type of boating is comparable to the Chesapeake in some ways.
To tell the truth, even though Houston gets a lot of static for its lack of zoning, I don't notice what the hubbub is about. Maybe I'm just used to it. The Woodlands does have zoning, and very strict codes for signage and how close a business can be to the street. It's nice, but a pretty long schlep from Houston. It's not even in the same county. I try to avoid Katy and Sugarland. I think they are boring treeless plains of cookiecutter brick houses filled with soccermoms. Spring is more of a general area than a discreet town, and it stretches from just east of I-45 to HWY 249 along a road called Louetta. It is getting as commercial looking as the rest of Houston. Just north of Spring along 249 is Tomball, which is an incorporated town, and has a main street with a quaint small Texas town feeling, with the added bonus of only being about 40 minutes from Downtown Houston if there is no traffic.
One good thing in Houston is they passed an ordinance within the city limits that no new billboards can be put up, and if one is damaged it cannot be rebuilt, so things are getting better.
Seamus -actually, as an environmental consultant I spend quite a bit of time outside - that's not smog - trust me, I'm an environmental scientist. It's diffraction of light through particulate matter and ground-level ozone - an entirely different phenomenon from smog. That's doesn't make it any prettier when you're flying through it, or any healthier for children, elderly and asthmatics, but since I am none of those, what do I care?! I kid. I wouldn't be in my field if I didn't care. Anyway, It really isn't visible at ground level, and since Houston is so flat, we are rarely above groundlevel. I would say that in most parts of Houston, the air does not smell at all. Down in Pasadena, though - whew! I go there a lot for my job and don't know how they stand it down there.
There actually are quite a few nice subdivisions in the northwest, around Lake Houston, like Atascasita.
The pine and oak are the native species here. There is only one species of palm that is native to the Houston area, and it mostly grows on the floor of the pine forest. It is slow growing and doesn't have much of a trunk. LOTS of palms are planted around here though, and do quite well. The most common palm is the sabal palm, and many of the old neighborhoods in the city have lots of grand old date palms growing in them. A lot of people are planting queen palms, too, which I think are the most tropical looking, most like a coconut palm.
The Clear Lake area is really nice and has a maritime, kind of tropical look, and reminds me of South Florida (where my mom grew up). It also doesn't feel as limited as the suburbs in terms of nice non-chain restaurants and bars. My brother keeps his boat there. He just moved back to Houston from South Riding, VA, and used to boat on the Ptomac and Chesapeake Bay, and he says the type of boating is comparable to the Chesapeake in some ways.
To tell the truth, even though Houston gets a lot of static for its lack of zoning, I don't notice what the hubbub is about. Maybe I'm just used to it. The Woodlands does have zoning, and very strict codes for signage and how close a business can be to the street. It's nice, but a pretty long schlep from Houston. It's not even in the same county. I try to avoid Katy and Sugarland. I think they are boring treeless plains of cookiecutter brick houses filled with soccermoms. Spring is more of a general area than a discreet town, and it stretches from just east of I-45 to HWY 249 along a road called Louetta. It is getting as commercial looking as the rest of Houston. Just north of Spring along 249 is Tomball, which is an incorporated town, and has a main street with a quaint small Texas town feeling, with the added bonus of only being about 40 minutes from Downtown Houston if there is no traffic.
One good thing in Houston is they passed an ordinance within the city limits that no new billboards can be put up, and if one is damaged it cannot be rebuilt, so things are getting better.
Seamus -actually, as an environmental consultant I spend quite a bit of time outside - that's not smog - trust me, I'm an environmental scientist. It's diffraction of light through particulate matter and ground-level ozone - an entirely different phenomenon from smog. That's doesn't make it any prettier when you're flying through it, or any healthier for children, elderly and asthmatics, but since I am none of those, what do I care?! I kid. I wouldn't be in my field if I didn't care. Anyway, It really isn't visible at ground level, and since Houston is so flat, we are rarely above groundlevel. I would say that in most parts of Houston, the air does not smell at all. Down in Pasadena, though - whew! I go there a lot for my job and don't know how they stand it down there.
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:03 AM
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Okay, in all fairness my definition of smog is the strictly technical one - the situation over Houston is only half of the components required for true smog, which also requires specific weather patterns. I the colloguial sense, it's smog, and it does need to be cleaned up. On the note of air quality in Houston, there is one more thing you should know, Falafel - occasionally farmers in our wonderfully environmentally unregulated NAFTA neighbor to the south set huge fires to clear land for farming. These fires often get out of control, and every few years when the weather patterns are right, the smoke moves north and just sits on top of Houston, sometimes for days to weeks. Not only is the air visible and have a smell, it has a taste too. Charming, eh?
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:52 AM
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Oh wow, thats the first time I heard about this one Reefmonkey! I guess its not bad if it happens once every few years. I can handle that. Unless my in laws who live in Europe happen to come visit at that time, then it will be embarrassing and they will think every American city is like that! (Just kidding. I?ll have to explain it to them that its not always like that)
