JimM

You've got a lot of good information to chew on. However, I've got to differ with your valuation of a good 3400 sq ft house in a good Dallas area neighborhood for $200K. Better figure on $320K to $350K...$95 - $100 per sq ft. Then you have to consider homeowners association fees and property taxes. And there's a whole bag of snakes being opened regarding how to pay for schools.

Make sure you take a hard look at the governments in Texas, especially how they value their people compared to their jobs.

Binthair

I faced this same issue when I moved from Montgomery County MD to Houston 14 years ago. I have not looked back, but feel that you could do well in whatever city gave you the best career opportunity. I do not get homesick for the D.C. area, do not miss the winter weather, and find summer is not necessarily worse here, it is simply longer in duration. And yes, traffic is not as bad in Houston as in D.C. regardless of what Houstonians may believe. Finally, say goodbye to income taxes! Yes,

Binthair

I faced this same issue when I moved from Montgomery County MD to Houston 14 years ago. I have not looked back, but feel that you could do well in whatever city gave you the best career opportunity. I do not get homesick for the D.C. area, do not miss the winter weather, and find summer is not necessarily worse here, it is simply longer in duration. And yes, traffic is not as bad in Houston as in D.C. regardless of what Houstonians may believe. Finally, say goodbye to income taxes! Yes, property tax rates are steep, but as you mention, valuations are lower than in the D.C. area.

qzseattle

Wow! It seems like you wrote your message on my behalf. I am in exactly the same situation. I am also in IT and am frustrated at the high cost of real estate in Seattle area. By the way, Forbes recently compiled a list of top ten cities with the greatest disparity between the housing cost and income. It turned out that Seattle is # 1! A 2000 sq feet house cost around $350,000!

In any case, I didn't want to see all my income going towards mortgage payments. One has to take into account other outlays such as education fund, family vacations, savings etc. I therefore decided to move to Texas. You are right that real estate is much lower there and IT salaries are comparable to what you get elsewhere (aside from Bay area). I was looking for opportunities in Houston, Dallas and Austin and have found a good opportunity in Houston so my search is over.

I was in Houston in August for a few days. I didn't find the humidity too bad, may be because I lived in Asia for long time. I hope it doesn?t get worst than that. Also, I am hoping that even if summer is bad, the rest of the year is fine. The main things that bothered me were the lack of zoning and the endless strip malls. However, the suburbs are nice (I went to Katy and Sugarland, and hear that the Woodlands is quite nice).

Like you, I also asked people to compare Dallas and Houston. People tend to tell me that Dallas is newer, cleaner and more cosmopolitan. Someone told me Houston is more congested although I don't know what that means since Houston is a wide, open city. Other people tell me that they are quite similar. I have never been to Dallas so can't compare them and can't verify this. Personally, having lived in Seattle for so long, I am used to greenery and occasional rain and I believe Houston is greener than Dallas, which is drier.

By the way, I do not know what is the property tax rate in DC but it is quite high in Texas. Depending on the community, you should expect to pay between 2% to 4%, or even higher. So, if the rate is 3%, you would pay $9000/year on a $300,000 house (or about $750 a month)! On the other hand, there is no state tax in Texas so if you pay state tax you would save there. Unfortunately, as far state tax is concerned, I have no advantage since Washington state also doesn't have state tax.

Mollie

Seamus- In 1983 seven young people committed suicide in Plano. There were also severe drug problems within their group. The schools and the community worked together to solve the problems. Have you heard of more lately?

Plano is a very well managed city and there are all income groups. Yes, there are many mansions but there are also homes in all price ranges.

Falafel, visit again and decide for yourself. Look at realtor.com and see what's available. Good luck in your search.

cm

I lived in the DC area and have lived in Dallas for years and San Antonio. Personally, I wouldn't move to TX if I were you. Few day trips compared to the East. Yes, housing is cheaper. If you do move to TX, I would skip Dallas and Houston. Dallas= traffic, chain everything. Houston= bad air quality, huge highways. How about Austin or San Antonio. They are smaller, more culture.

Binthair

Don't know if this is relevant, but if you want good falafel you are more likely to find it in Houston than Dallas, and certainly much less likely to find it at all in San Antonio or Austin.

Falafel

Wow! What a wonderful people! I did not expect to get as much responses. You all have good advice and I sincerely appreciate it all. I will keep monitoring this thread but by now I think I am already more biased toward Houston. Like Binthair which used to live in my area a while back, I think the weather is not going to be an issue. We have hot & humid weather in the summer and extremely cold winters (Nov.-Mar.) in the Washington area. The spring and fall is usually ruined by the rain. In Houston, the summer and humidity are a little longer than here but you cancel out the brutality of the winter. Also, in Northern Virginia (DC metro) the traffic is so bad that the only few freeways we have gets clogged so fast. Commuters start spilling over to the small streets and the residential streets as well! Imagine having commuter traffic twice a day passing through your neighborhood! We have too many special interest groups and environmentalists that many freeways that were on the master plan for Washington and the burbs were canceled. Now it is too late! There is no more space left to do anything even if they wanted to. This reason is also why real estate is sky rocketing. People no longer can move faraway because they can't spend half of their day in traffic. This increases the demand for housing in the closest area around the city. Even the subway/metro is not a good option most of the time because it does not go too many places. It is very limited and expensive. Another fact is that the concept of peak rush hour is fading. Rush hour is always at peak during the morning and evening hours. Wheather you leave home at 5:00AM or 7:00AM or 9:00AM chances are the volume is the same! Anyway, I don't want to bore you guys with our problems here. You guys have a great city weather it's Houston or Dallas. I will be proud to call one of them home in the near future.

qzseattle & Binthair, I would like to contact you guys somehow. If you would please drop me an email message. I can be reached at [email protected]

I will continue to monitor this thread as more comments pur in

bellairegirl

cm -- hasn't San Antonio surpassed Dallas in terms of size recently?

P_M

You are correct about that Bellairegirl. Of course, SA is not as big as the entire DFW metro area, but it is now bigger than Dallas itself.

rkkwan

San Antonio's metropolitan population is much smaller than Dallas. What it "surpass" is population within its city limit, which has little meaning. I just hate those newscasters in Houston keep saying we are the 3rd or 4th largest country in the US. Unless you are a city council member or the mayor who wants to boast, that means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Dallas is surrounded by many smaller cities - Irving, Arlington, Grapevine, Plano, etc where the population growth is. Houston and San Antonio just keeps annexing surrounding areas to become part of the city limit and the growth is within itself.

pepper131

Binthair - Really good falafel at Izmir in Dallas and probably the best hummus in the world!!

To look at homes in DFW, go to Ebby.com. They are nicely categorized by neighborhoods and suburbs.

emd

Falafel, you hopefully subscribe to the email offers that come out each Tuesday for Continental and American Airlines. This weekend for instance, you could get to Dallas (DFW)on American from Wash Natl. airport for $169, leaving after 7 pm on Fri or anytime Sat and returning Mon. or Tues. Then you can go yourself and check out the cities as well. I wouldn't move anywhere without checking it out firsthand. Continental goes to Houston nonstop (also Southwest goes from BWI to Houston nonstop).

momotx

Okay - another vote for Houston here. I consider myself a native Houstonian b/c I've lived here since I was 6 yrs. old (born in NYC). I now live in the Silverlake area of Pearland (just south of Houston) and have been there for the past 7 years and love it. Pearland has a "hometown" feel to it, too. My home was new when we moved into it and is 3400 sq. feet w/ an in-ground pool, and our mortgage is less than $200K. I will have to agree that the beaches at Galveston are not extremely pretty but kind of muddy b/c of the proximity to the Mississipi delta. However, one thing that's great about Houston is that there is more than one way to get around town. So if there is a major wreck or construction going on, usually you can find a way around it. The humid heat can be bad in the summer, but pretty much everything is air-conditioned here. The museum and theatre districts here are great, too. There is also a huge mix of cultures here. I suggest visiting again - there's new roadways and new additions all over the city since 1999. The new Metrorail is hopefully going to extend out to other parts of the city and suburbs, also. Plus the downtown and mid-town areas have been revitalized in preparation for the past Superbowl and MLB All-Star game.

Good luck in making your decision!

Falafel

I read about the new freeways/tollways. They are actually very nice. The Hardy Toll way is amazing that it actually runs parallel to I-45! I bet the folks at the Woodlands can get to downtown in less than 35 minute drive at rush hour. The new WestPark Tollway and Fort Bend Parkway are awesome too! The Grand Parkway also caught my attention! I think having a third loop around the city is very nice. I was also dazzled by some pictures I saw of the stack at beltway 8 and 290! I like the fact that Houston?s policy is to build a stack to connect freeways instead of the cheaper, impeding cloverleaf?s!

I see a lot of redundancy in highways in Houston which is a huge plus! Not many cities in the US or in the whole world can claim that I bet!

missypie

Houston has no zoning, intense humidity and the streets flood during even moderate rain.

Dallas has DFW Airport, which means you can get a direct flight to just about anywhere. Dalllas also has the Wright Amendment, which means that we can fly Southwest only to states that touch Texas, which means that we pay more for airfare to lots of locations.

Both cities have lots of shopping and restaurants; little natural beauty.

If I were starting over again in Texas, I'd choose Austin or San Antonio.

P_M

I have heard of the Wright Amendment but didn't know exactly what it was. I looked at SW's web page and all of their flights from Dallas do go to border states, except they also fly from Dallas to Brimingham, AL, so maybe there's an exception for that city. What is the purpose of the Wright Amendment?

OO

Falafel...you really should look at Austin, as someone else suggested. It combines some of the good of both Dallas and Houston and brings its own good into the mix as well. Its winters aren't as cold as Dallas nor are its summers as hot and humid as Houston. It borders the Hill Country, where Texans from all areas of the state head for R&R. It has a vibrant night life and the tech community is well established. Downsides are housing prices and traffic.

We've just returned from visiting Dallas...where we used to live. I'm continually surprised at the growth there, and the highway system is amazing. There is a sea of rooftops, expanding out as the highway system does. Our son is building a house in Frisco--just beyond the reaches of the Dallas North Tollway, but that will expand into his area by 2006. Housing prices are incredible...a 3,400 sq foot house with wood floors, island kitchen with granite counters, stone backsplashes and tile floors, media room, fireplace, crown moldings etc, fenced, sprinklered and sodded yard is running about $230,000! He's about 30 minutes from his office in North Dallas. The same house in Tampa where we live would easily be $800,000. It makes it tempting.

I'm not familiar with Houston, although I'd always heard, living in Dallas, how ugly Houston was. Sibling rivalry. We had the opportunity to visit during Super Bowl this year, and did not find it so at all. My brother-in-law lives in the suburb of Kingwood, which is simply beautiful...trees, winding roads, nice sized lots--really lovely.

IT jobs though can be a problem everywhere, with outsourcing what it is. Our son has an MIS degree and worked in the IT department at Sprint. The entire IT department is being outsourced to South America. He was fortunate to find another IT job at the same salary through contacts from Sprint who had moved on. Whatever you do and wherever you go, in today's climate, I'd have that job in hand before leaving!

rkkwan

The Wright Amendment limits airlines to fly (and to sell tickets) from Dallas Love Field to only TX and the bordering states of NM, OK, AR and LA. There was a latter Shelby Amendment that adds KS, MS and AL (though Southwest doens't fly DAL-Kansas).

It only covers planes with over 56 seats, so you can buy a ticket on CO to go anywhere in the world via Houston, as you're flying a regional jet with <56 seats to IAH from DAL. It also doesn't cover FF award tickets, so you can fly DAL to anywhere SW flies by claiming miles.

There's a detailed article in the current issue (Oct '04) of Airways magazine.

spunki

I live in Houston, and my husband works in the IT field as well. Although he doesn't think Houston has a strong IT job market, Austin's isn't too much better either, even though Dell and others have offices there. We considered moving to Austin last year but changed our minds. We are transplants from the east coast as well, and my husband lived in Dallas before we got married. He too thinks Houston has a lot more culture. True, it's more humid, but heck, we go from AC-cooled home to AC-cooled car to AC-cooled office, for cryin' out loud! True also that Galveston isn't one of the prettier beaches, but it's a good enough for a beach that's less than 1 hr from us if we just want to walk along the shore or wade a little. Moody Gardens (in Galveston) is also a great place to take visitors.

Anyway, Falafel, my 2-cents' worth to you would be to go where you can get a good job, or are you able to transfer (within your current company) to either city?