This is controversial I know but I did want to see what my seasoned Fodorite travel colleagues thought.

Last week flying to Miami my husband and I weren't able to upgrade to First Class but were able to secure bulkhead.

Parents (I'm guessing) of a lap child that was able to walk on his own sat a row in front of us in the last row of First Class.

Lap child screamed and screamed and screamed for at least 90% of the flight. Would not stop screaming until parents let him run up and down the aisle.

Captain would not turn off seatbelt sign because or turbulence. It wasn't too bad but it was very bumpy.

FA begging parents to please hold on to child. Parents refused!

If you were sitting in First Class, would you have asked for your money back?

This child screamed like he was being mutilated. This was temper tantrum screaming. He was all over the other passengers in First Class.

It was as if the child controled the parents and not the other way around.

What do you do in a situation like this? I understand children will cry and lap babies (toddler in this case) do exist but at what point that it infringes on your space do you say something? Again, this was in First Class.

For the record, my views may be skewed because even though I have stepchildren, I have no natural children of my own.

It sounds like a nightmare flight. I have my own kids and was always concerned about them being too loud on airplanes-- but they sure never did anything like you've described. The child you describe sounds like a real brat, with parents who let him get out of control.
Too bad it ruined your plane ride, but I doubt if anyone would get anywhere asking for a First Class rebate. I'll bet the airlines would say it was out of their control, which it was.

I assume a "lap child" does not have his own seat but sits on the parent's lap. So that's problem #1 - there have been previous threads devoted to this. Problem #2 is the FA's "begging" instead of insisting that the child sit down - IMHO they were just not doing their job ensuring the safety of ALL passengers. If I'm riding in first class it is because I have upgraded, not because I have paid so it would be useless to ask for my money back. I would however have pressured to the FA's to work harder to quiet the kid down as screaming kids on airplanes are a pet peeve of mine.

I'm trying to think of how to put this kindly, but can't.

Ask for my money back because they had an unruly child on board? Are you crazy?

What's next? Refuse to pay for your dinner because the people at the next table were too loud? Demand they buy back your house because there's a barking dog next door? Get your money back from the Broadway show because the people behind you talked and rustled their candy wrappers?

It's called, life, honey, get used to it!

Just so you know where my perspective is coming from . . . I have 2 small children and flew w/the youngest (18 mos at the time) on my lap this past Thanksgiving. My parents bought the tickets (it was a family event) so I did not make the decision not to buy ticket for dd.

That said, I would never fly again w/an infant on my lap. I wish the airline had forced me to buy a ticket for dd (I tried to do so when I realized a ticket had not been purchased but the flight was full) as it is unfair to her, me, and the person in front of me (whose seat she kicked) to have her on my lap. When my parents bought the tickets, Delta said dd didn't need one so they didn't buy one. I really wish all passengers were required to have a seat, regardless of age. Folks on this board warned me against not having a seat for her due to safety reasons and that may indeed be an issue, but just for the sanity of everyone on the flight (including myself!) it would have been better for her to have her own seat where she probably would have just slept (she didn't cry, but it was still quite difficult).

Back to first class . . . if you are paying extra for a first class experience on an airline, there shouldn't be screaming children around you. I think there should probably me a minimum age to fly first class.

Patrick - noone should expect a refund in those situations but I don't think they should accept those situations as status quo as they can and should be addressed. The best way to do this is through those with the ability to do so - the FA's, restaurant manager, law enforcement (noisy dog) etc.

GoTravel, I would have been extremely disappointed at having to listen to a screaming child most of the time BUT we all know that children scream sometimes, even in First Class. I would wonder if the child's ears were hurting, but if that was the problem, I wouldn't think running up and down the aisle would have relieved the pain!

My granddaughter's pediatrician offered Benadryl (HIS idea -I know that horrifies some people) when she flew the first few times, just in case she reacted that way. His idea was that it was better to relax them and let them sleep, I guess. (My GD didn't seem to need it!)

Really, children screaming is just part of "real life", and no airline could guarantee you a "scream-less" flight. I don't think it would do any good to ask for a refund.............

I have to agree with Patrick. Last I checked there's no guarantee that First Class ensures a quiet flight. It's a pity, sure, when there's some nightmare on board beit child or adult...but that's the risk you take when you fly.

I wholeheartedly agree, Craig. I was merely responding what seemed to me to be the main question here, "would you ask for your money back?"

It's sad to think things like this happen, but to think that means somebody owes you money is ludicrous in my opinion.

I wouldn't have asked the airline for a refund because I can't blame them for the situation the parents created. I wouldn't ask because I wouldn't expect them to respond.

In terms of the parents behavior, sometimes you really are in a no win situation. If I let my children scream, then I'm a bad parent for not controlling my child. However, by giving into their demand, which might stop the screaming, I'm probably encouraging them to pull that stunt again, resulting in a spoiled child who always gets their way.

That said, I think you have to pick your spots and respond to the situation that takes into account where you are.

Not knowing the circumstances that resulted in the tantrum in the first place, I can't fault the parents for allowing it to occur. However, they probably should have been better prepared to create a diversion by providing some other alternative like a book or toy. While we try and limit our kids tv viewing at home, I have to say that every parent should think seriously about purchasing a portable DVD player for airplane trips. I pop in a video and my son's perfectly content to watch his show for as long as the batteries last.

I think you have a valid complaint. Having said that,I'm not entirely sure its the airline's fault to the point that they need to give you a full refund. (Based on the worst traveling companion posts on this site, they'd be giving out refunds right and left!)

Ultimately, its the parent's (or whomever they were in relation to the child they were traveling with) responsibility to control the child.

Yes, the airline staff could have insisted the child be in his seat at all times, but maybe the runnning up and down the aisles was better than the nonstop screaming?

Regardless, I'm sure you (and everyone else) had a horrible flight. You didn't say how long the flight was, but I'm assuming it seemed twice as long!

I think if you approached the airline calmly and told them about what happened, making the point that you paid for first class and expected that part of the unspoken perks of first class was a more "refined" cabin, they might give you a credit or some sort of special deal for your next flight, especially if you are a FF and paid for a full fare ticket.

I don't think your views are skewed at all. Children do cry and become upset, especially during travel as they can be very tired and emotional. There is no reason a competent adult shouldn't be able to control a child that is having a simple temper tantrum. Easier said than done, I assume. But, if boundaries are there in the first place, even the most upset child should be able to be calmed down at some stage.

My parents were extremely liberal, and yet, as young as three and four years old, I knew that this kind of behavior was not tolerated. If I cried because I was tired, my mom would hold me tightly until I either fell asleep or stopped, but I never even considered kicking or screaming. Even at that young age, I had already been taught that was unacceptable behavior.

You said the child screamed for 90% of the flight so for most of the flight the parents were trying to control the situation. I'm absolutely sure they were hating it more than anyone else on the plane. The parents were between a rock and a hard place. Whatever they did, someone was going to think it was the wrong thing to do. You think everything they tried was wrong and really, you don't know why the kid was screaming. It's quite possible that he's never behaved like that before. You just don't know.

I agree that all children on planes should have to have a seat.

Why would the airline refund anything? You all got there safely and most of the people in first class probably didn't pay for it anyway. As you said, you were not able to get an upgrade.

If anyone is considering giving their toddler some Benadryl (or other antihistamine) to make them sleepy for a flight, be warned that for a certain number of kids, the opposite happens. The drug can make some people extremely hyper. So, if you're so inclined, I'd try a 'test dose' at home to see how it affects your child. Jean

I agree that you shouldn't expect your money back. As it stands, small children are allowed in first class and you should be aware of that when purchasing a first class ticket. However I do question the common sense and courtesy of a parent who chooses to fly first class with a small child.

Unfortunate that it may be, you paid to go to Miami and you got there. I would suspect that the parents feel bad however if they did not display remorse, I would display a nasty face at the least.

One last point, in terms of the First Class question with kids and a refund, if you agree that it should occur. Then can I ask if I was entitled to a refund on a flight from San Francisco to Newark two years when my son slept the entire way quietly in his first class seat as the flight attendants spent the flight talking non-stop, and loudly with a male passenger. Not sure how his date with Cyndy turned out.

My understanding was no children under 5 in first class. No exceptions. Depending on the age of the brat, that may be grounds for refunds. Or a slap in the face of the moronic parents.

I think some well placed duct tape would have alleviated this situation.

Regarding comments that the parents should control their child, I think it is helpful to note that a child over the age of 2 cannot fly w/o a ticket (on a parents lap). So I have to assume the child was under the age of two. A child under 2 can be difficult to control by even the best parents (especially on an airplane when they may be experiencing discomfort).

SnowRooster,
I'll take up your challenge as the parent who has taken his children into first class on more then one occassion.

If First Class cabins were bastions of social grace and polite society where people speak in hushed tones and engage in behavior that is fitting of an audience with the Pope, then maybe I'd think twice about getting my children a seat there.

However, having flown First Class numerous times both domestically and internationally, I can tell you that rarely, if ever, have I witnessed a child as the problem.

On a flight from Ft. Lauderdale to Newark the well dressed businessman in front-of me proceeded to shout obscenities at the flight attendant when she cut this visibly drunk idiot off.

Or the two women across the aisle from us on a flight to Paris who spent the entire overnight flight gabbing about their respective sex lives, growing louder with each additional glass of wine.

On at least three occassions the flight attendants were the problem as they spent the entire flight chatting in the front galley. I would have liked an hour nap but that would have cut into their socializing.

I could go on with several other example but those are representative.