Casa Monica Hotel Not As Classy As We Thought
Oct 18th, 2011, 11:13 AM
#21
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Neo, doesn't MK27501 agree with you in concept? He said specifically he thinks the employer has the right to tell its employees what they can and cannot wear, and that it's up to the customer to "speak with their feet".
Oct 18th, 2011, 11:21 AM
#22
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Neo,
"gmoney, I'm sure they'll miss your business. I bet you stayed there all the time, right?"
Not sure why you felt the need to make a statement like this, it sounds a bit snarkey! I was simply making the same statement that MK27501 did in that I simply choose not to do business with this particular establishment.
There is a huge difference between and american flag and a religious symbol or political symbol. While there are many religions and political beliefs there is only one country that we are all living in.
If displaying an american flag offends you then why are you here?
"gmoney, I'm sure they'll miss your business. I bet you stayed there all the time, right?"
Not sure why you felt the need to make a statement like this, it sounds a bit snarkey! I was simply making the same statement that MK27501 did in that I simply choose not to do business with this particular establishment.
There is a huge difference between and american flag and a religious symbol or political symbol. While there are many religions and political beliefs there is only one country that we are all living in.
If displaying an american flag offends you then why are you here?
Oct 18th, 2011, 12:27 PM
#23
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gmoney, displaying an American flag does NOT offend me in the least (by the way, I always put American in capitals). Do you honestly not understand how someone can present a logical argument about the "right" to do something or the "need" to follow rules even if that person doesn't believe in one particular side? It's not the idea of wearing an American flag pin I object to -- why on earth would you think that?
sf7307, yes, MK27501 did agree in concept about the right of customers to 'walk' -- that wasn't what I was curious about, however.
And while my comment about missing business may seem snarky, the real point of it was -- it's fine for people to claim they won't support a business because of a policy, but if they never supported that business anyway, then it really doesn't make much difference if they don't stay there in the future, does it?
sf7307, yes, MK27501 did agree in concept about the right of customers to 'walk' -- that wasn't what I was curious about, however.
And while my comment about missing business may seem snarky, the real point of it was -- it's fine for people to claim they won't support a business because of a policy, but if they never supported that business anyway, then it really doesn't make much difference if they don't stay there in the future, does it?
Oct 18th, 2011, 12:59 PM
#24
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***Do you honestly not understand how someone can present a logical argument about the "right" to do something or the "need" to follow rules even if that person doesn't believe in one particular side?***
I didn't know there was a 'side' when it came to the flag which is symbolic of being an American.
I find it offensive that you keep using "Muslims" to support your argument as if they aren't American's and wouldn't want to wear a flag pin.
I'd love to see this go to the courts.
I didn't know there was a 'side' when it came to the flag which is symbolic of being an American.
I find it offensive that you keep using "Muslims" to support your argument as if they aren't American's and wouldn't want to wear a flag pin.
I'd love to see this go to the courts.
Oct 19th, 2011, 06:12 AM
#25
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Neo,
"If displaying an american flag offends you then why are you here?"
This was a rhetorical question, not directed at you personally.
"Do you honestly not understand how someone can present a logical argument about the "right" to do something or the "need" to follow rules even if that person doesn't believe in one particular side?"
I understand perfectly, that is not the point. The ONLY point I was making is that I do not agree with the hotels policy and the firing of an employee for it, and the best way to express my objection is to not patronize that establishment. Why are you trying to make this more than what it is.
And how can you possibly compare the many various religious symbols or political symbols to the one American(happy) flag symbol which encapsulates all of us?
"it's fine for people to claim they won't support a business because of a policy, but if they never supported that business anyway, then it really doesn't make much difference if they don't stay there in the future, does it?"
How do you know that I have never patronized this business or if I plan to in the future? Making an awful lot of unsubstantiated assumptions, aren't you.
"If displaying an american flag offends you then why are you here?"
This was a rhetorical question, not directed at you personally.
"Do you honestly not understand how someone can present a logical argument about the "right" to do something or the "need" to follow rules even if that person doesn't believe in one particular side?"
I understand perfectly, that is not the point. The ONLY point I was making is that I do not agree with the hotels policy and the firing of an employee for it, and the best way to express my objection is to not patronize that establishment. Why are you trying to make this more than what it is.
And how can you possibly compare the many various religious symbols or political symbols to the one American(happy) flag symbol which encapsulates all of us?
"it's fine for people to claim they won't support a business because of a policy, but if they never supported that business anyway, then it really doesn't make much difference if they don't stay there in the future, does it?"
How do you know that I have never patronized this business or if I plan to in the future? Making an awful lot of unsubstantiated assumptions, aren't you.
Oct 20th, 2011, 04:52 AM
#26
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Huh? My point was that if you've never stayed there before, not staying there in the future is not going to affect their business. Is that so hard to understand? If a person feels strongly that any employee anywhere should be allowed to wear an American flag, then there are better ways to cause action to that effect than to avoid staying at a place where you were never going to stay anyway. I still fail to realize how boycotting a place you were never going to patronize anyway will somehow cause a change in their policy. And wasn't that the point -- that some feel there should be a change in that policy?
Sorry. You said, "If displaying an american flag offends you then why are you here?" I took that to mean that I (or others) was offended by the displaying an American flag and that's why I was discussing the issue of whether or not wearing one should be displayed. Sorry, if that wasn't what you were saying. But I guess I still don't understand what your point was. I simply wanted to make clear that I may discuss the logic of an issue without letting my own personal feelings regarding that issue one way or the other stand in the way.
Sorry. You said, "If displaying an american flag offends you then why are you here?" I took that to mean that I (or others) was offended by the displaying an American flag and that's why I was discussing the issue of whether or not wearing one should be displayed. Sorry, if that wasn't what you were saying. But I guess I still don't understand what your point was. I simply wanted to make clear that I may discuss the logic of an issue without letting my own personal feelings regarding that issue one way or the other stand in the way.
Oct 20th, 2011, 06:22 AM
#27
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If a person feels strongly that any employee anywhere should be allowed to wear an American flag, then there are better ways to cause action to that effect than to avoid staying at a place where you were never going to stay anyway.
Indeed.
Indeed.
Oct 20th, 2011, 08:46 AM
#28
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To those who don't agree that the Casa Monica should be boycotted. You should be ashamed of yourselves. This young man had been wearing the American Flag for years and suddenly told to remove it. Like most of you said, it is such a "small thing" why not change the policy and allow the wearing of the American Flag pin? Or are you so unpatrotic that you don't appreciate the American military. I know the Kesselr Group dosen't. How many of you served in the military? Never mind I don't need to know, you'll probably lie about it anyway. I bet not one of you would be willing to lay your life down for what that flag represents. That flag represents the greatest country on the face of this planet. If you don't like my little rant, so be it, get over it.
Oct 20th, 2011, 08:59 AM
#29
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Boycotted why? Because of their policy of enforcing rules, or because you somehow feel that if they don't allow employees to wear symbols then they must be against whatever any symbol stands for?
Next you may be telling us that bluejeans are as American as apple pie (or the American flag) so if a business doesn't allow their employees to wear jeans to work then they must be Anti American.
Sorry, I fail to understand why you feel that telling employees that they must abide by not displaying personal feelings in their dress (whatever those feelings are) means that the business is against whatever any of those feelings might be.
But if you don't agree with such logic, then to use your words, "get over it".
Next you may be telling us that bluejeans are as American as apple pie (or the American flag) so if a business doesn't allow their employees to wear jeans to work then they must be Anti American.
Sorry, I fail to understand why you feel that telling employees that they must abide by not displaying personal feelings in their dress (whatever those feelings are) means that the business is against whatever any of those feelings might be.
But if you don't agree with such logic, then to use your words, "get over it".
Oct 20th, 2011, 09:03 AM
#30
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"I still fail to realize how boycotting a place you were never going to patronize anyway will somehow cause a change in their policy. "
Neo, I did not say that I have never patronized this hotel (I have), nor did I say that I never planned to patronize this hotel in the future (I probably would have). But now knowing that this hotel fired a retired soldier who risked his life so that would have that right. I will never stay there in the future unless they change their policy! Is that so hard to understand?
Neo, I did not say that I have never patronized this hotel (I have), nor did I say that I never planned to patronize this hotel in the future (I probably would have). But now knowing that this hotel fired a retired soldier who risked his life so that would have that right. I will never stay there in the future unless they change their policy! Is that so hard to understand?
Oct 20th, 2011, 09:11 AM
#31
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>
What gall! Your first post and you call into question the patriotism of those of us who feel the hotel justifiably enforced their policy. And we should be ashamed of ourselves. Get off your high horse. Americanism and patriotism play no part in this discourse. Obeying company policy is what it's all about.
I really resent any insinuation that I don't respect the military or my country. My first year of marriage was spent at an Air Force Base with my Airman First Class husband. Don't presume to try to prove a point. It's very unbecoming!
What gall! Your first post and you call into question the patriotism of those of us who feel the hotel justifiably enforced their policy. And we should be ashamed of ourselves. Get off your high horse. Americanism and patriotism play no part in this discourse. Obeying company policy is what it's all about.
I really resent any insinuation that I don't respect the military or my country. My first year of marriage was spent at an Air Force Base with my Airman First Class husband. Don't presume to try to prove a point. It's very unbecoming!
Oct 20th, 2011, 10:44 AM
#33
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Or are you so unpatrotic that you don't appreciate the American military.
In my dictionaries I find no mention of wearing a flag pin as being characteristic of "patriot," "patriotic," or "patriotism."
Perhaps you have been hoodwinked by those who wear flag pins to create the impression that they are patriotic and that those who don't wear flag pins are unpatriotic. It is possible that some people who wear flag pins are sheep in wolves' clothing. Perhaps we should stop judging people by their flag pins.
HTTY
In my dictionaries I find no mention of wearing a flag pin as being characteristic of "patriot," "patriotic," or "patriotism."
Perhaps you have been hoodwinked by those who wear flag pins to create the impression that they are patriotic and that those who don't wear flag pins are unpatriotic. It is possible that some people who wear flag pins are sheep in wolves' clothing. Perhaps we should stop judging people by their flag pins.
HTTY
Oct 20th, 2011, 11:03 AM
#34
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RIGHT, WRONG,RULES,POLITICS. WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY.
IF YOU WOLD LIKE TO BENIFIT FROM HER.EMBRACE HER. Casa Monica OPEN SOMEWHERE ELSE AND TAKE THIER MONEY. THIS AMERICAN WILL NEVER SPEND A DOLLAR AT YOUR HOTEL! AMERICA LOVE IT IR LEAVE IT
IF YOU WOLD LIKE TO BENIFIT FROM HER.EMBRACE HER. Casa Monica OPEN SOMEWHERE ELSE AND TAKE THIER MONEY. THIS AMERICAN WILL NEVER SPEND A DOLLAR AT YOUR HOTEL! AMERICA LOVE IT IR LEAVE IT
Oct 20th, 2011, 11:15 AM
#35
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Please turn off your caps lock key.
I "came of age" in the late 60s/early 70s. I didn't agree with "love it or leave it" then and I don't now. Would you say "embrace your country" and "love it or leave it" to a woman in Saudi Arabia, or would you recognize her right to object to various policies and laws while still remaining a Saudi citizen? You claim to have fought for freedom, yet you want to deny others their right to take a different position from yours.
All of those who are now boycotting the named hotel, it's your right to do so because you disagree with the hotel's policy of not permitting an employee to violate their dress rules. Characterizing it as the hotel refusing to permit the employee to wear a flag pin is simply wrong, unless they let other employees wear other kinds of "statement" (i.e. not pins that are just decorative jewelry) pins.
I "came of age" in the late 60s/early 70s. I didn't agree with "love it or leave it" then and I don't now. Would you say "embrace your country" and "love it or leave it" to a woman in Saudi Arabia, or would you recognize her right to object to various policies and laws while still remaining a Saudi citizen? You claim to have fought for freedom, yet you want to deny others their right to take a different position from yours.
All of those who are now boycotting the named hotel, it's your right to do so because you disagree with the hotel's policy of not permitting an employee to violate their dress rules. Characterizing it as the hotel refusing to permit the employee to wear a flag pin is simply wrong, unless they let other employees wear other kinds of "statement" (i.e. not pins that are just decorative jewelry) pins.
Oct 20th, 2011, 12:12 PM
#38
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gmoney - Only when they jump on a thread like this, rant, rave and quote old slogans and most of all think a flag pin makes you a good American.
Why is that a problem for you gmoney? Don't you find it rather odd? I did and that's what I commented on both.
Why is that a problem for you gmoney? Don't you find it rather odd? I did and that's what I commented on both.
Oct 20th, 2011, 12:19 PM
#39
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Giovanna,
"Don't you find it rather odd?"
Not at all, maybe this was a topic in which they felt that they had a strong enough opinion to finally get in on the discussion. Why is that a problem for you Giovanna? Do you not like it when someone expresses their opinion, or again is it only when it differs from your own?
"Don't you find it rather odd?"
Not at all, maybe this was a topic in which they felt that they had a strong enough opinion to finally get in on the discussion. Why is that a problem for you Giovanna? Do you not like it when someone expresses their opinion, or again is it only when it differs from your own?
Oct 20th, 2011, 01:19 PM
#40
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I don't find it a problem; you seem to. I don't like it when someone expresses their opinion that I and the others who sided with Casa Monica are unamerican, don't respect the military and all the other ridiculous comments that have been made. Everyone has a right to their opinion, myself included. Disagree with me to your heart's conent, but don't call me unamerican because I don't feel a flag pin makes you patriotic, 100% Amrican and on and on. Additinally, I prefer disagreements with me to make sense. No need for screaming and ranting. That's it for me gmoney. Go argue with NeoPatrick if you wish. I've expressed what I feel and mean repeatedly. No need to do it any furhter.
