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Orlando_Vic Oct 15th, 2011 05:51 PM

Casa Monica Hotel Not As Classy As We Thought
 
An employee of the Casa Monica Hotel in St. Augustine lost his job for for not removing an American flag pin that he wore for two years previously without issue. This is so disrespectful on so many levels.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...l#post17280322

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic....html#36462002

_____________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

happytrailstoyou Oct 15th, 2011 07:08 PM

I have no sympathy for insubordinate employees. If a worker has the need to wear a flag pin, he can wear it in a place that puts him in compliance with company policy. It is ludicrous that anybody is concerned about this non-issue.

HTTY

PS At $599 the St. Francis Suite is out of my price range.

AustinTraveler Oct 16th, 2011 06:08 AM

The company handbook is clear:

"'No other buttons, badges, pins or insignias of any kind are permitted to be worn.' No matter an individual's national preference, political views or religious affiliation, it is a standard regulation which ensures equality for all Grand Performers (employees)."

It doesn't matter that it was a flag pin, it wasn't allowed and he was asked to remove it. Seriously, have you had a job where you didn't have to follow the rules, or you just followed the rules you liked or agreed with?

It reminds me of people who scream for government cuts, but oh wait, I didn't mean for you to cut THAT program (cause it benefits me).

Rules are rules, especially at work.

SOCALOC Oct 16th, 2011 08:01 AM

This proves how sick and twisted the values and priorities in this country have become. May made the ultimate sacrifice and survived TWO tours in Iraq and he can't even come home and wear a stinking flag pin to work! The gratitude is pathetic.

Perhaps Michelle Obama & Jill Biden can walk the talk and lobby aggressively for legislation to be written that ALL Veterans can wear a flag pin anywhere they choose!

SOCALOC Oct 16th, 2011 08:43 AM

And here's a reminder of their sacrifice!



http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...tory?track=rss


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...tory?track=rss

Giovanna Oct 16th, 2011 09:06 AM

I have to agree that he broke the rules and because of that lost his job. The fact that he's a veteran has no bearing on the hotel's decision IMHO. He could wear his flag pin on off-duty times and I'm surprised he didn't decide to do that. I admire and thank him for his service, but I'm sure the hotel has other vets working there that adhere to the dress code.

We've stayed at the Casa Monica and very much enjoyed our several days there. Wouldn't hesitate to stay again and frankly don't find this incident sufficient reason to boycott the hotel

Orlando_Vic Oct 16th, 2011 05:35 PM

The thing to remember here is that he wore the flag pin <u>for two years without objection or problems</u> from his employer. Whether or not, you believe that management was justified in firing him, I predict that this will go down as a poor business decision, given the negative publicity from the widespread coverage of this incident.

_____________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

KWeaver126 Oct 17th, 2011 03:01 AM

People are unreal. You thank him for his service but being a veteran has no bearing on his job? Excuse me? The place wouldn't be in business if it weren't for veterans. What's wrong with you people? I served, I'm disabled from my service, I wear a flag pin. You know why? Because I know that freedom isn't free - I know that I would die for my country - and if you told me tomorrow that I couldn't wear my pin because it's not part of the dress code, I would tell you wear to stick the dress code. Being a veteran means so much more than getting thanked (if at all) for serving this country. Show some pride. I will NEVER go to the hotel, or any other hotel that bans the wearing of a flag pin. He wore it for 2 years and nothing was ever said. All of a sudden, out of the blue, they want it to stop? Really? Are they going to start calling each other Comrade now? What if that was part of the work code? Would you do it as well? If you don’t like being here – then leave. I certainly wouldn’t stop you. If you don’t like a veteran showing pride in his/her service – then move to another country, and if you have the attitude that this is the price for a job in America and you accept it - well shame on you. Maybe we were fighting for the wrong reasons? Maybe you aren’t worth fighting for?

NeoPatrick Oct 17th, 2011 04:23 AM

"This proves how sick and twisted the values and priorities in this country have become."

Yes, it does indeed. The fact that people are actually agreeing that it's OK not to follow clearly spelled out rules of employment because a certain thing "shouldn't apply to MY values" is just astounding and indeed shows that some people have no work ethic, ability to follow authority, or respect values of the company they work for. Following such logic, a person working for the same company could proudly wear some sort of pin honoring terrorists who blew themselves up to support their "values" or "sacrifices", right? Oh wait a minute, that's different because their values aren't the same as YOUR values, and YOUR values are the only ones that should count.

The issue is not what the flag stands for or how close to a saint the particular person is in your eyes. It's about having rules, following rules, and some people believing rules shouldn't apply to them.

NeoPatrick Oct 17th, 2011 04:28 AM

Oh and KWeaver, I think you are right that if a person doesn't like this rule then they shouldn't patronize the place that imposed it. Just as if you worked for that company and didn't like the rule, you should quit and work for someone else -- not ignore their rules and do as you wished. This employee had that right and decided that he was "above" their rules and refused to comply. Not a good employee no matter what kind of a serviceman he was.

tom42 Oct 17th, 2011 05:08 AM

Why do I have the feeling that there is something more to this story than just a flag pin.

persimmondeb Oct 17th, 2011 05:37 AM

I am not a lawyer, but I am betting that the rule is pretty close to a first amendment infringement. Employers can, and do, regulate standards of personal adornment, and I think are permitted to dictate dimensions, and certainly that things must not be dangly or distracting, but I think banning religious symbols is a little iffy.

Obviously, the flag is not a religious symbol (although many hold it sacred), but I am kind of amazed that they courted that kind of publicity. The way I read that regulation, someone could have been fired for wearing a Star of David, or a cross, or a star and crescent, not just a national or ethnic identifier.

Yes, employees should follow their employer's rules, but employer's have an obligation to draft rules that are in line with the law.

happytrailstoyou Oct 17th, 2011 07:42 AM

<i>Why do I have the feeling that there is something more to this story than just a flag pin.</i>

Exactly. If workers defy their employers on one issue, they may be obstinate in other matters as well. We don't know if there are other ways in which the employee was deficient, troublesome, or a big pain in the neck.

We know he has caused dissent among us--perhaps he did the same at work.

HTTY

SOCALOC Oct 17th, 2011 08:42 AM

***Following such logic, a person working for the same company could proudly wear some sort of pin honoring terrorists who blew themselves up to support their "values" or "sacrifices", right? Oh wait a minute, that's different because their values aren't the same as YOUR values, and YOUR values are the only ones that should count.***

Rather extreme viewpoint you have there Neo.

I don't know about you but I live and work with others' values every waking moment. For the record, it wouldn't be MY choice or VALUE to wear a flag pin to work. But I surely wouldn't be offended if someone else did. Especially, someone who is willing to die for everyone else so they can live THEIR values in society. It's a flag pin! Obama is crucified for not wearing one and a soldier is crucified for wearing one to work. The issues we make a priority nowadays is beyond ridiculous!

Fortunately, we live in a society that questions authority. And I hope this case does. There's something really wrong if you can't be allowed to show respect to this country, if you so choose.

happytrailstoyou Oct 17th, 2011 09:25 AM

<i>There's something really wrong if you can't be allowed to show respect to this country, if you so choose.</i>

I thought this was about showing respect for one's employer.

Giovanna Oct 17th, 2011 09:39 AM

<<You thank him for his service but being a veteran has no bearing on his job? Excuse me?>>

No it doesn't. I stand by my statement. You are a veteran and screw up at work; you're late all the time, you don't follow the rules, etc. So because you're a vet you shouldn't be fired because you're a poor employee? I don't think so.

My husband is a Korean Vet and I seem to recall he may have lost a job or two. I guess he should have shown his boss hs discharge papers.

gmoney Oct 17th, 2011 09:50 AM

Right or wrong, all I know is that I personally will not patronize an establishment that would fire an employee for displaying an american flag pin(especially a soldier who fought for this right). I visit St. Augustine all the time and will not stay at Casa Monica for future visits.

NeoPatrick Oct 17th, 2011 01:01 PM

gmoney, I'm sure they'll miss your business. I bet you stayed there all the time, right? But of course, you are wise not to patronize a place which has policies you don't believe in -- people avoid WalMart all the time for that very reason.

Socaloc, "rather extreme" is the only way to make a point. What's the line one draws? Nothing is just black or white. Sure I used an extreme example, but where does one draw the line of which values one can express? Or how far one can go in defying the rules of one's employer? Who establishes which rules which must be obeyed and which ones can be ignored?

MK27501 Oct 17th, 2011 01:59 PM

It's not that they don't have the right to tell their employees what they can and can not wear (no matter how distasteful) - they do, but it is also our right as customers and potential customers to let them know how we feel about their corporate policies and how they may effect their "bottom line". This Veteran won't be staying there again in the future.

NeoPatrick Oct 18th, 2011 09:58 AM

MK27501 (and others) -- so let's stop and think for a moment. If you believe the employee has the right to wear his American flag pin, then I guess you believe a Muslim employee would have the right to wear some sort of pin representing his religion -- or perhaps political group of which he is a member. Right? Or are you saying, only those who wear pins representing what YOU believe in should have the right to wear those pins? Just curious here, but it seems you have to believe in one or the other of those two options. Or how do you determine what pins may be worn? Or do you just agree that ANY pin or emblem should be allowed?

And for the record, don't be afraid to say "only those with patriotic AMERICAN values should be allowed to wear their emblems" -- after all many, many people freely admit they believe that and that too is their right AS an American.


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