I'm guessing here - but I'll bet that 80-90% of first-time tourists don't even rent a car while visiting San Francisco on a 4 day (or less) visit. They walk or take public transportation - so street traffic is not an issue for them. I can drive from the northern edge of SF (GG Bridge) to the southern edge of SF in 15-20 mins - and never get on a freeway. Same thing for driving east to west on Geary. When I worked in downtown San Francisco, I had several co-workers who lived in the City & didn't even own a car. There is even a "car-share" program in SF (don't know much about it) which might be a good idea for these non-car owners to use for trips outside the City. There are lots of people who bike to work from areas withing SF that are considered "far away" (Inner Sunset to downtown, for example - more than half-way across SF). San Francisco is only 49 Square miles - 7X7.

Can't say most of these things about LA - which is why we moved up here.

Stu Dudley

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Well, to be honest, you'd be hard pressed to do that ON a freeway

No sense bashing one location or another. Travel is about discovery anyway. Fodorites are here to help! I could post some relatively easy and fun things to do in LA area, but I'll wait for star48 to post some questions first.

Star48, when you are ready to ask about LA, there are a number of us on Fodors who will help you figure out how to maximize and enjoy your time there!

>>you'd be hard pressed to do that ON a freeway

I know - my point was you can't get from the Golden Gate Bridge across town to 101 south on a freeway.

>>you can't get from the Golden Gate Bridge across town to 101 south on a freeway.

Thanks for all your suggestions. As for Phoenix, we really want to go. Can anyone tell me how long the drive is from LA to Phoenix...we don't mind long drives. We've driven from Montreal to Miami several times.

LA to Phoenix, about 6 hrs actual driving time.