There you have it! We will be there the 3rd week of June so hopefully the pass will be open. If not, we will have two days/one night to get from Death Valley to Yosemite Bug. Any suggestions as to route/what to see/where to spend the night? One thing that sounded interesting is the underground gardens in Fresno, but I'm not sure that's on our way. Another thought was taking 198 through Sequoia Nat'l Park.

Weather has been pretty warm with no rain or snow in the forecast. However, it is the national park service that plows Hwy 120 over Tioga and they can be a lot slower than the state highway department. Also they don't know what sort of damage or landslides have blocked the road until they start plowing from each end. You can check the National Park Service www site for daily updates once they start plowing.

As for an alternate route there are a couple of ways. To the north Hwy 88 and Hwy 50 are plowed all year round and are open except during a big storm.

You can come up Hwy 395 to Hwy 88 and west over to Hwy 49 and then south to Yosemite. I like Hwy 88 better than Hwy 120 for the view and less people, but it is a little further north than Tioga (Hwy 120).

Hwy 198 doesn't go all the way through to the east side of the Sierra Mtns.

The underground gardens are just off the freeway (Hwy 99) in Fresno, but not worth stopping for.

Worse comes to worse you can come south on Hwy 395 from Lone Pine to Mojave and take Hwy 58 over to Bakersfield and then Hwy 99 north to Fresno and Hwy 41 to Yosemite Bug.

You can also take Hwy 178 over to Lake Isabella, but I have never done that drive so I don't know what it is all about. I doubt they have snow as the pass is pretty low. Probably not as fast as going down to Hwy 58 and over.

Jamesr3939 has given you an excellent overview of your options.

I was flamed by some on another thread for posting a "worst case scenario" warning regarding opening/closing dates of Tioga Pass. So, without editorial comment, here are the historical records:

http://www.monobasinresearch.org/data/tiogapass.htm

They plan to start plowing 128 in Yosemite in about two weeks according to the SF Chronicle. Since we haven't seen much snow in the past 6 weeks, it is very unlikely that we will see much more this season. There should be no problem in June driving through Yosemite.

But more important, are you really contemplating visiting Death Valley at the summer solstice? This is not a good idea. It is absolutely the worst time to go there.

The Yosemite web site indicates they will begin plowing Tioga Road (120 if you need to look it up on the Caltrans.ca.gov site)

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wroads.htm

Yes, I know we're out of our minds to be going to Death Valley in June - I've been told only crazy Europeans do it. However, it may be our only chance to see it, we are fascinated by deserts, and we plan to do really, really early and late afternoon/evening stuff and hibernate in the middle of the day - and still be hot. And have lots and lots of water - for us and the car.

James - thanks so much for your very detailed info on alternatives. I"ll check them out as soon as I get off the computer. Thanks all of you for the websites for checking snow and plowing progress.

bellhouse: You've received very detailed advice and are set. 95% chance you won't need that detour - but if the worst happens, do try to take jamesr3939's northern route. It goes through some brilliant scenery -- and the southern route through Bakersfield is just too grim . . . . .

Jean: "I was flamed by some on another thread "

Chill a bit. "it just seems overly alarmist to say Tioga Pass will be hairy in Sept . . . . ." is hardly being flamed . . . . . .

Janisj, you know there was more to that exchange, but you like your own interpretation.

But, carry on. It's not important now.

Jamesr - I've had a chance to look at the map to see the route you suggested. Taking into account the traffic we might run into on 120, what would you estimate the difference in driving time to be between the northern route and cutting straight through on 120? How would you balance the view and less people against possibly not going to Tuolome (I know that's not how to spell it, but I've got to leave to pick up kids from school in just a minute) Meadow? This isn't just for Jamesr - I'd welcome all opinions.

You mentioned possibly checking out Sequoia National Park. While Jamesr is right in that 198 doesn't go all the way to the eastern side of the Sierras, you can still manage to see it on your way up to Yosemite if you don't mind taking a detour.

From 99 north you can jump on 198 east, enter through the south gate of the park then exit out the west entrance on 180 west (the road that runs through the park goes straight from one gate to the other). 180 will then take you back to Fresno and you can jump on 41 north to Yosemite from there. There is a lot to see and do in Sequoia, but if you just want to take a quick run through, you can see most of the major sights in a few hours. However, the extra distance you would have to go out of your way might not be that appealing. Just an idea though. If you do decide to go that way I would suggest stopping for the night somewhere around Visalia.

I have driven both Hwy 88 and Hwy 120 over to Hwy 395 and then down to Bishop. In fact one weekend we drove the motorcycle over Hwy 88 (Hwy 120 was closed) then back Hwy 120 as it opened during the weekend. Not a good idea on a motorcycle as it was very sandy and still pretty wet from the melting snow. I also froze my ass off.

I would estimate it is about 1.5 - 2 hours longer going up Hwy 88 vs Hwy 120. You can cut a little off of that if Hwy 89 is open down through Markleville, which is a pretty drive.

If you are not planning on going to the Yosemite Valley floor I think Hwy 88 is a much better road. Cables Lake is awesome. While you can always get stuck behind a slow mover it is less likely on Hwy 88. Alot of Hwy 395 is four lane highway and fairly fast, wide, and well paved.

You are best to check the NPS site every day to see when 120 opens. They can put up their estimate for a week or more out and then the next thing you know the road is open. It usually show up in my local paper even when the NPS site still says they are a week out.

Forget the CalTrans site as it is always behind as they only plow up to the park property and stop.

"Taking into account the traffic we might run into on 120"

Traffic is usually not too bad over Tioga in June. The busy months are July and August. Often in June the trails are not open yet over the high passes and Tuolumne Meadows can still be a lake due to snow melt.

If you are staying in Yosemite, 120 is the best route by far for you going over the Sierra. As I stated above, there should not be any problem with the road being closed this year at that time.

For your Death Valley trip, here is a link to some discussion about visiting at that time of year with an actual trip report from a person who went in early July.

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=001TZS

107 degrees at 5:30 am at Stovepipe Wells does not sound like fun. I don't know where you are planning on spending the day in relative comfort other than driving around in an air conditioned car.

Thanks. The time difference isn't nearly as much as I thought it would be.

We are going to be doing the Death Valley/Yosemite route approx. Oct. 19 - 21, 2008. We have booked a campsite in Yosemite Upper Pines on Oct. 22 but are flexible in the 3 days leading up to that date, after we leave Death Valley. We appreciate that Tioga Pass may be closed and that we may have to take another route. I am thankful to jamesr3939 for an alternate trip that avoids Bakersfield Fresno etc. though it will mean backtracking for us after Yosemite since we are heading to Napa Valley after that. Our fingers and toes are crossed that the Tioga Pass will be open. But if it is, will we be able to camp in Tuolumne Meadows or in any of the other campgrounds along this route? The National Park website indicates that these campgrounds are "Open: July through late September (approximately)"

Tuolumne Meadows campground will be closed. You will not be allowed to camp there. You should check the NPS website prior to getting to Yosemite to find out if White Wolf and other sites are open.

Thanks for the reply Marginal. I have checked and it is the same story for White Wolf as Tuolumne Meadows so all Park campgrounds along Tioga Road will be closed whether the Pass is open or not. I had hoped that camping might be allowed even though officially the sites were closed and no services provided. In that case, I wonder if it is even worth going that route at that time of year if it is going to mean a six hour (?) drive from Lee Vining to Upper Pines Yosemite Village. Maybe we will take the Bakersfield/Fresno route from Death Valley to Wawona.

The drive is spectacular and worth seeing. The eastern Sierras will be beautiful in autumn. I don't believe it takes 6 hours from Lee Vining to Upper Pines. Maybe 3 tops, so you will have plenty of time to explore Tuolumne Meadows.

It will be freezing at night at the elevations of Tioga Pass and Tuolumne Meadows. Tioga is 9900 feet, and Tuolumne Meadows is 8600 feet. Camping will not be allowed. The road into the campgrounds will have a metallic gate to prevent driving in, and I believe the restrooms and shower will be locked. The park service just doesn't have the budget to man and service those areas after the peak tourist seasons. There are two other small campgrounds in the Tioga Pass area that are outside the park boundaries. However, once again, it will be very very cold at night, fires will not be allowed, and I would not tent camp then.

Encantadora: "Maybe we will take the Bakersfield/Fresno route from Death Valley to Wawona."

no, NO, NO !!!!

Even w/o the camping option - the trip over Tioga is 10,000% better than slogging from DV over to Bakersfield and up through Fresno.

I hear you!!!! I don't know where I got that six hours - maybe from somebody's blog who drove it in a snow storm just before they shut it down. Google Map sez 91.9 mi – about 2 hours 22 mins. Of course we won't be driving without stopping so even double that is o.k. Thanks to you both. We definitely had our hearts set on the Tioga Pass and the northern alternate route using sounds interesting if that doesn't happen.

I just realized I never got back to this after our trip. Death Valley and Tioga Pass were two of the highlights of our trip. Death Valley was hot (117 at one point), but compared to home at that time of year (93 plus humidity making a feel-like temp of over 100) it wasn't bad. We hit the high places on our way in (Dante's View and Zabriskie Point) when it was hottest, then walked out to the sand dunes, Mosaic Point, and the lowest point (does it have a name?) just before sunset and early in the morning. There were enough people/cars so that I didn't worry about being stranded if the car broke down, but it wasn't at all crowded. We only heard one other person with an American accent - everyone else was European. We stayed at Stovepipe Wells, so went swimming the first afternoon during the worst of the heat - it was great - spring fed, so the water was cold (me)/refreshing (DH and sons). If you like deserts, I would definitely recommend a summer visit. The next night we stayed in Mono Lake, then we went over the Tioga Pass. What a change! We were in 117 degree heat one day and had a snow ball fight 1 1/2 days later! There was lots of water, so the meadows reminded me of English water meadows - beautiful! And the lakes! The pass was the highlight of our time in Yosemite - the valley was way too crowded. We walked up to Bridal Veil falls and stopped along the river, but the crowds got to us. We went on to the Yosemite Bug and went for a swim (great waterhole), then went back to the southern end of the park the next morning - still sort of crowded and a long round trip drive, but not as bad as the valley. I would really like to see the park in the winter. Someday..... Any way, thanks for all your help and advice - we had a great trip.