Bostonians weigh in on AirBnB
Sep 7th, 2014, 02:41 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bostonians weigh in on AirBnB
Universal Hub is a Boston news and opinion website much of which is irrelevant anywhere else, but this discussion of why [most] residents object to transient guests is excellent.
http://www.universalhub.com/2014/cit...f-has-got-stop
There is less objection to people renting out a room while they are present than to renting out an apartment short-term.
Be prepared for a very snarky atmosphere characteristic of twenty- and thirty-something urban techies, not the exemplary politeness we have on Fodor's. There is a lot of "aren't I clever" youthfulness to ignore, but lots of concrete issues that I have not seen anywhere else.
http://www.universalhub.com/2014/cit...f-has-got-stop
There is less objection to people renting out a room while they are present than to renting out an apartment short-term.
Be prepared for a very snarky atmosphere characteristic of twenty- and thirty-something urban techies, not the exemplary politeness we have on Fodor's. There is a lot of "aren't I clever" youthfulness to ignore, but lots of concrete issues that I have not seen anywhere else.
Sep 7th, 2014, 07:51 AM
#2
Is there something new here? They mention cities that are "cracking down" when, in fact, the opposite is true - legislation to legalize short-term rentals under certain circumstances, for instance, in a home or apartment where the owner/renter resides. Owners of apartments may be cracking down in rare instances but the cities don't seem to care.
I don't consider the repetitious hysteria helpful, just boring.
I don't consider the repetitious hysteria helpful, just boring.
Sep 7th, 2014, 08:41 AM
#3
The owners of AirBnB (the company, not the properties) must really be raking it in. I haven't used them before, but I'm looking at a room in Aix-en-Provence - en-suite, private entrance, owner's only property - and for three nights I'd wind up paying AirBnB itself $24! Four nights would be $31. Multiply that by all the properties they handle, and they can for sure afford some pricey lawyers!
Sep 7th, 2014, 08:52 AM
#4
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fully understand why cities want to protect the rights and safety of their local residents - rather than pouring money into the coffers of a predatory corporation (encouraging residents to rent out rooms in situations which are clearly illegal under local tenancy laws as well as fire/safety regulations - never mind in contravention of the leases they have signed with landlords or the co-ops and condos in which they reside).
If owners of private houses choose to do this that is their option. But tenants in an apartment building have no right to risk the security and unencumbered use of facilities by legitimate tenants for their own profit.
If owners of private houses choose to do this that is their option. But tenants in an apartment building have no right to risk the security and unencumbered use of facilities by legitimate tenants for their own profit.
Sep 7th, 2014, 09:52 AM
#7
I should add, I fully understand the worries of those who live in buildings and worry about the worst happening. I would too. But in nearly all cases it doesn't happen and we have posters here with, admittedly, no experience with the site throwing the baby out with the bath water.
My opinions are from experience. I could sympathize more with the complaints if those who've had actual experience with this issue, airbnb rentals ruining their happy homes, instead of the usual suspects yammering on just because they must. I guess it's human nature to want to know, even we don't.
My opinions are from experience. I could sympathize more with the complaints if those who've had actual experience with this issue, airbnb rentals ruining their happy homes, instead of the usual suspects yammering on just because they must. I guess it's human nature to want to know, even we don't.
Sep 8th, 2014, 07:56 AM
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wish it were that easy, Mme.
I participate in the equivalent of ABnB when I rent apartments in Paris but object to people renting condos in buildings where I am an owner. Wildly inconsistent? Yes. Am I proud of that? No. But I continue to gather data to see if my position will change.
The blog I posted yesterday is an attempt to share data. The title is not "Bostonians Unite to Ban AbnB" but "Bostonians Weigh In On", that is "discuss their thoughts and feelings about"
You know what people like nytraveler think about AbnB. But the participants in UniversalHub are young, hip, techy, cyclists, users of Zipcar, UBU, etc, so I expected them to be pro AbnB. I was wrong.
They mostly sound just like us elderly Capitalist Dogs and Tools of the Lodging Industry, except that they are ruder to each other than we are and they do a much better job of outlining specific problems that they have personally experienced. This is, it seems to me, to be valuable data for anyone who is thinking about supporting AbnB politically or financially.
You may or may not like the data they share -- and by no means all of them are negative -- but you have to think about it. Will you participate in a system that benefits you and the landlord but may have substantial negative effects on other residents in the building? At the very least, we should ask the questions before going ahead.
I participate in the equivalent of ABnB when I rent apartments in Paris but object to people renting condos in buildings where I am an owner. Wildly inconsistent? Yes. Am I proud of that? No. But I continue to gather data to see if my position will change.
The blog I posted yesterday is an attempt to share data. The title is not "Bostonians Unite to Ban AbnB" but "Bostonians Weigh In On", that is "discuss their thoughts and feelings about"
You know what people like nytraveler think about AbnB. But the participants in UniversalHub are young, hip, techy, cyclists, users of Zipcar, UBU, etc, so I expected them to be pro AbnB. I was wrong.
They mostly sound just like us elderly Capitalist Dogs and Tools of the Lodging Industry, except that they are ruder to each other than we are and they do a much better job of outlining specific problems that they have personally experienced. This is, it seems to me, to be valuable data for anyone who is thinking about supporting AbnB politically or financially.
You may or may not like the data they share -- and by no means all of them are negative -- but you have to think about it. Will you participate in a system that benefits you and the landlord but may have substantial negative effects on other residents in the building? At the very least, we should ask the questions before going ahead.
Sep 8th, 2014, 09:19 AM
#9
"But I continue to gather data..."
You sound like an intelligent person, Ackislander, and it would absolutely be interesting to know if the sky really is falling, with regard to the woes voiced by those who feel the practice of renting private space should be banned. I wish there was real data, real reporting so we could get an idea. But it all seems to be "what if" such & such happened and ruined where I live. An occasional report of something real, followed by lots of conjecture and teeth gnashing. That's why I respond.
There aren't many of us here with experience on both sides of the equation. I find my guests universally polite & respectful but then they're also in my home. I know full well that may not always be the case when an entire unit is rented. But I suspect in that case it's still almost always true, as the users of the site, because they aren't anonymous, behave. And the fear is made up mostly of not knowing that this is the case.
To be honest, as I mentioned above, if I lived in a building in an urban area and had no experience with it, I'd be skeptical of the practice and prefer it not take place. I live in a house in the woods but I still have neighbors, not sharing a wall or a hallway, but I wish their dogs didn't bark and their trucks wake me up early. It's the human condition and laws cannot be made to prevent it. My guests are certainly less bother than the people who live around me 365. I have to believe it's the fear of something new and not the thing itself.
You sound like an intelligent person, Ackislander, and it would absolutely be interesting to know if the sky really is falling, with regard to the woes voiced by those who feel the practice of renting private space should be banned. I wish there was real data, real reporting so we could get an idea. But it all seems to be "what if" such & such happened and ruined where I live. An occasional report of something real, followed by lots of conjecture and teeth gnashing. That's why I respond.
There aren't many of us here with experience on both sides of the equation. I find my guests universally polite & respectful but then they're also in my home. I know full well that may not always be the case when an entire unit is rented. But I suspect in that case it's still almost always true, as the users of the site, because they aren't anonymous, behave. And the fear is made up mostly of not knowing that this is the case.
To be honest, as I mentioned above, if I lived in a building in an urban area and had no experience with it, I'd be skeptical of the practice and prefer it not take place. I live in a house in the woods but I still have neighbors, not sharing a wall or a hallway, but I wish their dogs didn't bark and their trucks wake me up early. It's the human condition and laws cannot be made to prevent it. My guests are certainly less bother than the people who live around me 365. I have to believe it's the fear of something new and not the thing itself.
Sep 8th, 2014, 10:05 AM
#11
As I said, I haven't used AirBnB before, but am thinking of trying it out on my upcoming trip. However, I will be paying close attention to the people I book with. In Aix the couple I am considering have only one listing. There is a cheaper and bigger place I looked at, but the owner has three other listings, so I decided against it on that basis.
Sep 8th, 2014, 10:53 AM
#12
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air BnB does NOT benefit many landlords. It allows tenants who cannot really afford an apartment to retain the least - preventing vacancy and the increased rent that the landlord would likely get from that.
The only landlords that benefit are those who are renting illegally to transients instead of offering the apartment long-term to locals (almost always after having accepted tax rebates on the basis that they would be providing affordable housing to locals - or they would have built a HOTEL - at a higher cost to meet zoning and fire laws) - and thus are cheating local tax payers.
The only landlords that benefit are those who are renting illegally to transients instead of offering the apartment long-term to locals (almost always after having accepted tax rebates on the basis that they would be providing affordable housing to locals - or they would have built a HOTEL - at a higher cost to meet zoning and fire laws) - and thus are cheating local tax payers.
Sep 8th, 2014, 06:49 PM
#13
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,648
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ackislander, UHub is an extremely useful site, the reporter/writer often scoops the major media outlets with the local news. Its audience is not confined to young, hip, techies--I'm not in that group nor are my friends, and many of the posters. Plenty of old-timers there. It's where you first look for the news when you hear a lot of sirens, or the helicopter circling above, or your subway is stuck.
It has regular posters, like Fodor's, who are often predictable in their reactions but who also call out the cranks and the trolls. Sound familiar?
Boston may be considering the Airbnb business with the objective to collecting the hotel room tax.
It has regular posters, like Fodor's, who are often predictable in their reactions but who also call out the cranks and the trolls. Sound familiar?
Boston may be considering the Airbnb business with the objective to collecting the hotel room tax.
Sep 9th, 2014, 01:14 AM
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, I am a daily reader, cw.
We lived in Cambridge, Milton, and Boston long enough to be interested in what goes on, then after being completely away for a few yeas, we bought a small pied a terre in Coolidge Corner, and I have to keep up with the turkey attacks, the bank robberies, and the Green Line C doings.
I love it this time of year because of the "storrowing" trucks and the tales of student move-in.
I first encountered the cranks (no pun intended) when I dared to criticize a bicyclist. You can imagine the result, But almost everyone is younger than I am, more likely to drink expensive coffee and listen to independent bands, be left of center and technologically advanced (I don't own a smart phone, though that is partly fogeyism), and wear a backpack on the T. Unlike here, I hardly ever post there.
But we all love what Adam is doing, and I thought the discussion of ABnB was interesting.
We lived in Cambridge, Milton, and Boston long enough to be interested in what goes on, then after being completely away for a few yeas, we bought a small pied a terre in Coolidge Corner, and I have to keep up with the turkey attacks, the bank robberies, and the Green Line C doings.
I love it this time of year because of the "storrowing" trucks and the tales of student move-in.
I first encountered the cranks (no pun intended) when I dared to criticize a bicyclist. You can imagine the result, But almost everyone is younger than I am, more likely to drink expensive coffee and listen to independent bands, be left of center and technologically advanced (I don't own a smart phone, though that is partly fogeyism), and wear a backpack on the T. Unlike here, I hardly ever post there.
But we all love what Adam is doing, and I thought the discussion of ABnB was interesting.
Sep 9th, 2014, 04:36 AM
#15
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,648
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So glad to meet another UHub reader. Where else can you keep up with the wild turkeys in Brookline? Not to mention the storrowing and French toast alerts in the winter.
Car v. Bicycle is the hotbed issue always--a little like whether to recline when on an airplane here on Fodor's.
Airbnb did prompt a good discussion. We've stayed in apartments in Paris and I always wonder what the neighbors think. This is something our condo association may have to deal with since our rules and regs don't address short-term rentals. So far it hasn't been a big problem.
Car v. Bicycle is the hotbed issue always--a little like whether to recline when on an airplane here on Fodor's.
Airbnb did prompt a good discussion. We've stayed in apartments in Paris and I always wonder what the neighbors think. This is something our condo association may have to deal with since our rules and regs don't address short-term rentals. So far it hasn't been a big problem.
Sep 9th, 2014, 01:17 PM
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When we lived on the waterfront, it took our building three or four tries to ban them.
This was long before AbnB but we had a couple of people running B&B's in their condos. The people at the front desk ( doormen to New Yorkers) hated it, even though they got tapped by the owners.
IIRC, they put in a $300 per night fine with a lien on the condo for unpaid fines so they couldn't be sold until the owners paid up. That stopped it.
Our worst problem was an alcoholic owner on the 35th floor who kept setting his condo on fire while smoking and drinking. We lived on the 29th floor, a lot farther than you want to walk down from more than once or twice. They forced him out eventually, too.
This was long before AbnB but we had a couple of people running B&B's in their condos. The people at the front desk ( doormen to New Yorkers) hated it, even though they got tapped by the owners.
IIRC, they put in a $300 per night fine with a lien on the condo for unpaid fines so they couldn't be sold until the owners paid up. That stopped it.
Our worst problem was an alcoholic owner on the 35th floor who kept setting his condo on fire while smoking and drinking. We lived on the 29th floor, a lot farther than you want to walk down from more than once or twice. They forced him out eventually, too.
Sep 9th, 2014, 03:00 PM
#17
One of the reasons I like to live close to the ground. The one time I had a condo I bought on the 2nd floor, the lowest level that had apartments. If the worst happened I could hang from my balcony and drop, probably onto someone's car to break the fall.
Sep 10th, 2014, 05:54 AM
#18
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure it is possible to care less about something than I care about AirBnB. With property prices what they are in desirable parts of Boston, the likelihood of any significant number of apartments in desirable areas operating as de facto hotels is probably pretty small. The economics just don't work. I'd think the same in NYC, though there you may have people using it to sit on rent-controlled properties, but even then.
I'd think that the professional-type AirBnB operations in Boston are largely restricted to the sort of transient neighborhoods (e.g. Fenway, Allston, etc.) where your real problems would be with transient residents, absentee landlords, parties, and lack of investment.
I'd think that the professional-type AirBnB operations in Boston are largely restricted to the sort of transient neighborhoods (e.g. Fenway, Allston, etc.) where your real problems would be with transient residents, absentee landlords, parties, and lack of investment.
Sep 10th, 2014, 08:09 AM
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The economics don't work to buy a condo to rent on a night to night basis, but lots of people own property, often free and clear, that they haven't had to buy:
Inheritance, daddy, divorce, appreciation on other property.
If you already own or are in possession, there is considerable incentive to rent a place to fund one's own travels, make the mortgage payments, or throw off free cash for living expenses.
Inheritance, daddy, divorce, appreciation on other property.
If you already own or are in possession, there is considerable incentive to rent a place to fund one's own travels, make the mortgage payments, or throw off free cash for living expenses.
Sep 10th, 2014, 08:27 AM
#20
While travelgourmet is caring less, the site has over 300 accommodations in Boston renting for over $300 a night, a number of them for much more. My guess is many are in neighborhoods that would even be considered "desirable". And it's still early days for the site so, coming soon to a building near you, wherever you are. Ignorance is, it seems, bliss.
