Another Tipping Dilemma
Nov 29th, 2010, 02:58 PM
#1
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Another Tipping Dilemma
I've been wondering, if we are in a restaurant being served by a waiter who gives us short shrift while lavishing attention on other tables, should we give him a 20% tip just as though he had given us the same attentive service he gave others?
HTTY
HTTY
Nov 29th, 2010, 04:19 PM
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What kind of attention are you wanting?
When I go into a place I expect to get a menu, maybe a run-down of todays specials, place my order, receive the food and drinks, get the bill and leave, nothing more, nothing less.
Geordie
What kind of attention are you wanting?
When I go into a place I expect to get a menu, maybe a run-down of todays specials, place my order, receive the food and drinks, get the bill and leave, nothing more, nothing less.
Geordie
Nov 29th, 2010, 04:29 PM
#4
I wonder the same thing.
I waitressed during college - and pretty much hated it. Was good at it, but hated it. My "job" was to do what Geordie described and when I did it (and the kitchen didn't make any mistakes) I expected to be tipped on the service given. Re "lavishing attention - a server matches the energy of the table. A good server is good at reading the energy. Different people have different expectations of the "relationship". I wonder if the "lavishing attention" you saw was the server interacting with the energy given from those seated at the table. Some customers are friendly and want a lot of interaction. Some customers are businesslike, matter of fact, cool and/or (unfortunately) rude. As long as you were provided good service, you should tip the 20%. If there was a problem, let the server and/or manager know.
I waitressed during college - and pretty much hated it. Was good at it, but hated it. My "job" was to do what Geordie described and when I did it (and the kitchen didn't make any mistakes) I expected to be tipped on the service given. Re "lavishing attention - a server matches the energy of the table. A good server is good at reading the energy. Different people have different expectations of the "relationship". I wonder if the "lavishing attention" you saw was the server interacting with the energy given from those seated at the table. Some customers are friendly and want a lot of interaction. Some customers are businesslike, matter of fact, cool and/or (unfortunately) rude. As long as you were provided good service, you should tip the 20%. If there was a problem, let the server and/or manager know.
Nov 29th, 2010, 04:31 PM
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If the waiter is professional. prompt and courteous he deserves a full tip. (He may be friendlier to other patrons - who are regulars he has developed a relationship with - that is no discourtesy to you.)
If, on the other hand he does a bad job - what he does with other tables is immaterial - then cut back on the tip - of, if necessary, make a complaint.
If, on the other hand he does a bad job - what he does with other tables is immaterial - then cut back on the tip - of, if necessary, make a complaint.
Nov 30th, 2010, 06:43 AM
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It's not uncommon to lavish attention on regular customers. As long as you're getting the service you want and need, it doesn't really matter what the staff does with others. But you're also not obligated to leave 20% at any time (imo). 15% is ok for adequate service. Double the tax or just over 16% is also fine.
Nov 30th, 2010, 09:46 AM
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Doubling the tax could result in a tip of anything between zero and 22%, depending on where you are. It happens to work well for me at home where restaurant tax is just under 10%, but I need to look carefully at the bill when I am out of town to see if that formula is relevant.
Nov 30th, 2010, 09:50 AM
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Yes, you are expected to tip a full amount (whether that full amount is 20% or 17% or 15% is really your call, though 18%--20% is the norm in a big city like NYC, less in a casual restaurant in a small town). If you feel you're not getting the full deal, simply do not return to the restaurant again.
If service is actually rude or if the server does something that betrays more than incompetence, that's a different story, and the tip should be reduced noticeably---and you should tell the server if asked.
This is a strange thread because the situation proposed is one I've never experienced or witnessed in my life. I've seen servers turn cold to patrons who are unaccountably rude or really difficult, and I've certainly seen servers be friendlier with regular patrons than others; I've even seen servers flirt; but I've never received bad service from a waiter who was giving particularly good service to everyone else or recall ever seeing that happen.
If service is actually rude or if the server does something that betrays more than incompetence, that's a different story, and the tip should be reduced noticeably---and you should tell the server if asked.
This is a strange thread because the situation proposed is one I've never experienced or witnessed in my life. I've seen servers turn cold to patrons who are unaccountably rude or really difficult, and I've certainly seen servers be friendlier with regular patrons than others; I've even seen servers flirt; but I've never received bad service from a waiter who was giving particularly good service to everyone else or recall ever seeing that happen.
Nov 30th, 2010, 10:47 AM
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Sorry Doug but I have to disagree with you on two counts.
First, some wait service can indeed be poor and when that happens why should a patron be obliged to tip "the full amount" or, in fact leave anything at all. If the wait staff relies on tips for some or all of their compensation they should know enough to take care of their customers needs. I certainly expect to wait staff in a restaurant to provide a minimum level of service (varies with the type of restaurant) and if they don't tipping them only encourages them to offer substandard performance. Remember the the origin of the word "TIP" - To Insure Proper Service.
Second, I've dined at several upscale restaurants where our table was virtually ignored all evening while our waiter fawned all over the people at the next table. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. I'm not talking about making unreasonable demands either. The worst instance occurred when my spouse and I were hosting another couple and we waited over 30 minutes for our first round of cocktails, it was another20 minutes after we finished our drinks before the waiter return to ask if we wanted refills and then again failed to bring them in a timely manner. For each of the four meal courses that followed one of the people in our party did not get their food and to top it off the waiter never once came back to re-fill our wine glasses. All the while we saw him giving lavish attention to the people at the next table. Now, i don't know if they were "regulars" or not but if he gave us half the attention he gave them we would have been happy. At no time was anyone at our table rude or overly demanding. When the waiter brought us the check at the end of the meal I politely asked him to send over the manager. At this point, the waiter became apologetic and wanted to know if something was wrong. I simply again asked to see the manager and in a calm & quiet manner informed him (the manager) that for the first time in my life I was not going to tip but I wanted him to know why. In this instance all the waiter had to do to "earn" 20% of a high end food bill was to give us a modest bit of attention and he could have gotten much more if he did his job.
If you think I'm a cheapskate you are wrong - I routinely tip 20% for average service, even at the local "greasy spoon" and almost always add more when the service exceeds the norm. In fact, I tip extra even in places (or countries) where a service charge is already included in the bill.
First, some wait service can indeed be poor and when that happens why should a patron be obliged to tip "the full amount" or, in fact leave anything at all. If the wait staff relies on tips for some or all of their compensation they should know enough to take care of their customers needs. I certainly expect to wait staff in a restaurant to provide a minimum level of service (varies with the type of restaurant) and if they don't tipping them only encourages them to offer substandard performance. Remember the the origin of the word "TIP" - To Insure Proper Service.
Second, I've dined at several upscale restaurants where our table was virtually ignored all evening while our waiter fawned all over the people at the next table. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. I'm not talking about making unreasonable demands either. The worst instance occurred when my spouse and I were hosting another couple and we waited over 30 minutes for our first round of cocktails, it was another20 minutes after we finished our drinks before the waiter return to ask if we wanted refills and then again failed to bring them in a timely manner. For each of the four meal courses that followed one of the people in our party did not get their food and to top it off the waiter never once came back to re-fill our wine glasses. All the while we saw him giving lavish attention to the people at the next table. Now, i don't know if they were "regulars" or not but if he gave us half the attention he gave them we would have been happy. At no time was anyone at our table rude or overly demanding. When the waiter brought us the check at the end of the meal I politely asked him to send over the manager. At this point, the waiter became apologetic and wanted to know if something was wrong. I simply again asked to see the manager and in a calm & quiet manner informed him (the manager) that for the first time in my life I was not going to tip but I wanted him to know why. In this instance all the waiter had to do to "earn" 20% of a high end food bill was to give us a modest bit of attention and he could have gotten much more if he did his job.
If you think I'm a cheapskate you are wrong - I routinely tip 20% for average service, even at the local "greasy spoon" and almost always add more when the service exceeds the norm. In fact, I tip extra even in places (or countries) where a service charge is already included in the bill.
Nov 30th, 2010, 11:58 AM
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This is what I mean. In my experience differential (rather than deferential) service happens most often in chef-owned restaurants where the chefs place too much trust in a staff about which regular customers rave.
Nov 30th, 2010, 01:01 PM
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RoamsAround claimed: "Remember the the origin of the word "TIP" - To Insure Proper Service."
No, that's not correct. That's the same sort of thinking that leads ignorant people to believe that the word "posh" came about as an acronym for "port out, starboard home."
If it were true, in fact, the "tip" money would be given to the server in advance in order to guarantee you'll receive attentive service. But tips of course are given after the meal, not before.
No, that's not correct. That's the same sort of thinking that leads ignorant people to believe that the word "posh" came about as an acronym for "port out, starboard home."
If it were true, in fact, the "tip" money would be given to the server in advance in order to guarantee you'll receive attentive service. But tips of course are given after the meal, not before.
Nov 30th, 2010, 01:07 PM
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No, not 20% but it isn't an excuse to stiff him either. All our kids have been servers, and we like GOOD service. If we get poor service, they are the FIRST to say 15% for him. And I usually write a note on the ticket.
Nov 30th, 2010, 01:07 PM
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No, not 20% but it isn't an excuse to stiff him either. All our kids have been servers, and we like GOOD service. If we get poor service, they are the FIRST to say 15% for him. And I usually write a note on the ticket.
Nov 30th, 2010, 01:55 PM
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HTTY, it sounds like something very specific happened and you perceived a slight. There is no way to generalize from the information you provided. In my experience, waiters routinely "lavish attention" on regulars. This is not done at the expense of other diners, or shouldn't be; you shouldn't be jealous of it if you're not a regular.
Nov 30th, 2010, 02:21 PM
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I'm talking about sloppy or no management.
This sort of think doesn't happen in well-run restaurants.
I don't want to go to places where I am constrained to
complain about thoughtless service and to be offered in
exchange an opportunity to have the same miserable
experience on another occasion.
It doesn't make me jealous to observe waiters behave
like boors--it offends me.
HTTY
This sort of think doesn't happen in well-run restaurants.
I don't want to go to places where I am constrained to
complain about thoughtless service and to be offered in
exchange an opportunity to have the same miserable
experience on another occasion.
It doesn't make me jealous to observe waiters behave
like boors--it offends me.
HTTY
