We will be at the Swan in a few weeks. My daughter has a business conference. There will be grandma & grandpa, Dad & 2 kids going along.

Here's my question: Our daughter will be in business all day long. If we want to go to dinner or fireworks at Epcot or Magic Kingdom, will she have to buy a $69 park ticket to join us? I'm trying to get a handle on the system, but it's confusing.

Also, I've been to Epcot as an adult and feel a 4 yr. old wouldn't get much out of it. But we'd like to go to Illuminations at night. Would we have to buy G & G, dad, mom & the kids all $69 tickets to the park just to see the fireworks?

You need tickets to enter the park, be it for dinner, fireworks, etc. Not sure if there are cheaper tickets for late entry.

Well, if you have a park hopper ticket, you can spend the early part of the day in any Disney park you want and then go over to the other park for fireworks or dinner. As far as I know that is the only way.

My four year old liked Epcot a lot, but it was mainly because of a few things. At each country there is a kid's station where they can get a cardboard mask that they can color and a little tag that attaches to the mask. My kids loved finding the table to get their attachment. It is also MUCH easier to see characters at Epcot if they are into that. If you look on the map they give you, it will point out the character locations and lines will be a ton shorter than Magic Kingdom. They also liked the demonstrations going on throughout the park. The drummers at Japan and Independence Hall. The chair stacker at France, etc. There is also a kids area with a Nemo ride and a few other kids rides.

The Iluminations fireworks are nice, but NOT worth a $69 surcharge for everyone. If you go to Epcot, I would take the time to actually enjoy the place and at least walk through every country.

From the mousesavers.com website:

Park Hopper Option - Adding the Park Hopper Option lets you come and go as you please through any or all of the four major Walt Disney World theme parks (Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Disney's Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom) for each day of your pass. Extra cost on top of the base-price ticket is a flat rate of $52 ($55.38 with tax). This works out to a bit under $8 per day on a seven-day ticket, but obviously it adds a lot proportionally to the cost of a one-day ticket.

I am often asked if you can buy, say, a 10-Day Base Ticket and use it as a 5-Day Hopper by visiting two parks per day. The answer is no. You can only enter one park per day with Magic Your Way Base Tickets, so you really can't use them as Hoppers unless you buy the Park Hopper Option.

How long are you going for?

It might be less expensive to buy a season pass (especially if you're going for more then 5 days or so).

We'll only be there 3-1/2 days. The more we look into this, the more ridiculous it seems. We spend thousands on Europe and again thousands in The Caribbean EVERY year, but the price gouging of Disney just seems like ripping up hundreds and throwing them away.

I think they have developed the best system in the world for parting you from your money.

I guess it's all in perception of value. I can see spending $7,000 taking the kids to the Caribbean, but spending $3,000 plus at Disney just doesn't seem like a good value.

Other than that, I don't have much to say on the subject!

It remains to be seen if we go or not. Thanks for all the responses anyway.

It's always struck me as strange that people think they should be able to take a family vacation in the U.S. for $1000 when they'd pay ten times as much to go to the Caribbean and lie on the beach.

For all its faults (and there are many of them), I do think you get your money's worth at WDW. Yes, the admission charges are high, but when you compare that to a 2-hour $95 zipline ride or a 4-hour $60 ATV excursion, can't you see that you're getting an awful lot for your money in these parks? I mean this ticket lasts all day and includes endless admission to rides and entertainment that could keep you buzzing from 7am to midnight.

Here in NYC, we pay $27 if you want an all-access pass to the Bronx Zoo. For a bit more than double that you get a day at Animal Kingdom, which strikes me as a decent deal.

And I think Disney has made great strides over the last couple of years to make dining better and more affordable. The meal plans are actually a good deal if you have kids. And the hotel rates are pretty affordable for what you get.

"I think they have developed the best system in the world for parting you from your money."

Yep, but they make you smile while you give it away. Also, for six people plan on around $200 for a sit down meal and don't forget spending money.

For what I spent on our Disney vacation we could have gone almost any place in the world for twice or three times as long.

We did have fun though but it's not going to be a yearly pilgrimage as it is for many other families.

Well TPAYT, for your situation you are correct. WDW is not a cost effective date night for adults (and not designed to be). It's many fabulous rides and attractions are mostly not aimed at 4 year olds. Kids aged 9-14 would be in heaven at WDW and for them it is worth the money. So in 5 years, your grandchild will be the perfect age. Wait until then. There are many other fun things to do in Orlando this time around.

Regarding the fireworks: you can view (from a distance) the fireworks at the Magic Kingdom without purchasing a ticket although you will have to pay $12 to park. This can be done from the transportation center. Stand just outside the gates of the ferry terminal. It isn't as exciting as being in the park but it is a good view.

Grandma, Grandpa, Dad, and kids will get the value of their tickets. Daughter will not as she will not be able to use hers the entire day. I too find Disney to be a good value. We took our daughter there 4 times and 2 cruises between ages 3 and 11. Enjoyed it every time and glad we did it. We have stayed everywhere from Grand Floridian and down- find them all very good. Buy a park hopper pass and have a great time.

I was disappointed with EPCOT too.

I enjoyed Epcot.

> Yes, that's very true. Dave Barry refers to Disney as the vaccuum that sucks money out of your wallet. However, they do provide value for that money. Especially when I think of what I last spent on a ticket for a concert that lasted 2 or 3 hours vs what I'd spend for all-day admission to Disney.

Magic Kingdom fireworks can also be seen from the Grand Floridian, Polynesian, and Contemporary Hotels.

Hmmm...today I booked a WDW vacation package at Animal Kingdom for me and my husband for our second anniversary. The package was cheaper than what we had originally planned for a trip to London for the week in a 3.5 star hotel but when I added the Park Hopper + Water Park & More ticket, we really were not ahead of the game as spent more than would have on taxes, airport transfers, tube pass and site pass going to London. What started out as a great deal quickly turned into a $3000 trip. We only plan to do this trip once so we plan to enjoy it. My ultimate hope is that we will be ahead with the currency conversion when paying for our meals as opposed those in the UK, with the bonus of a nicer hotel and warm weather.