Advice on RV safety
Jul 28th, 2006, 05:31 PM
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Advice on RV safety
We are two ladies from Australia who enjoy RV holidays. In Ozzie, we are allowed to 'free camp' which means the law allows us to camp anywhere provided we are not in sight of a residential area, or in sight of a hotel, motel or the like. So basically, we can find a forest road, drive up there and camp the night or even just pull over onto the side of the road, or layby, and snooze.
My question is, is the same true for the USA or are you required to camp only in a registered campground? I am aware that there is the issue of the Walmart parking and as well, there are some free grounds in various locations but if I were somewhere where there is only a campground where a cost is involved, could I free camp the same as in OZ. If so, how safe is it? Possibly a difficult question, but there are certainly places in the world you wouldn't even dream of free camping because of personal security issues.
Any advice would be most helpful.
My question is, is the same true for the USA or are you required to camp only in a registered campground? I am aware that there is the issue of the Walmart parking and as well, there are some free grounds in various locations but if I were somewhere where there is only a campground where a cost is involved, could I free camp the same as in OZ. If so, how safe is it? Possibly a difficult question, but there are certainly places in the world you wouldn't even dream of free camping because of personal security issues.
Any advice would be most helpful.
Jul 28th, 2006, 05:58 PM
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I am not a RVer, but you can park in truckstops for free in most areas. In the Northeast or near large metropolitans, some may charge a few bucks per day for the big rigs, which should be the same for RVs.
The truckstops make money from fuel sale, restaurants, and convenient store. They welcome everybody, and the large ones are very safe.
Overnight on the side of the road or at highway rest areas is definitely not safe.
The truckstops make money from fuel sale, restaurants, and convenient store. They welcome everybody, and the large ones are very safe.
Overnight on the side of the road or at highway rest areas is definitely not safe.
Jul 28th, 2006, 08:03 PM
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No, the concept of "free camping" as you described it legally does not exist in the United States. There are places within sight of homes and hotels where you can stay overnight if you like, and then theere are entire towns where it is illegal for you to stay anyplace except a campground. There is no national policy.
This board is not a particularly good place to research RV-related issues; you'd be better-off at an RV-related discussion board such as you can find at rv.net.
Staying overnight in a location that is not in an actual campground is often referred to as boondocking. You can find an excellent discussion of the concept at the blog of a guy name George who fulltimes in his Tioga motorhome:
http://vagabonders-supreme.net/boondocking.htm
This board is not a particularly good place to research RV-related issues; you'd be better-off at an RV-related discussion board such as you can find at rv.net.
Staying overnight in a location that is not in an actual campground is often referred to as boondocking. You can find an excellent discussion of the concept at the blog of a guy name George who fulltimes in his Tioga motorhome:
http://vagabonders-supreme.net/boondocking.htm
Jul 28th, 2006, 09:37 PM
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This is called "dispersed camping" in public lands in the West. You can camp for free (well, actually, you need a parking pass in some places) in many places in National Forests, for example, though I personally wouldn't take an RV on a lot of the rough, narrow roads that you need to access these places. It's perfectly safe otherwise. You would probably have better luck if you tell people (probably on the RV board) in what area you'd like to camp, then people could give you tips on where to go. There are tens of millions of acres of public land here so you need to be specific.
Someone once told me about doing this same thing around the Western US, and they were very proud of themselves for saving the money they would have spent in campground fees. But, they spent a good amount of time looking for suitable spots in areas that they were unfamiliar with, and they missed out on some of the beautifully situated campgrounds in national parks. It didn't sound like much of a bargain to me.
Someone once told me about doing this same thing around the Western US, and they were very proud of themselves for saving the money they would have spent in campground fees. But, they spent a good amount of time looking for suitable spots in areas that they were unfamiliar with, and they missed out on some of the beautifully situated campgrounds in national parks. It didn't sound like much of a bargain to me.
Jul 28th, 2006, 10:19 PM
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When you research rates of renting an RV in the US, plus the cost of leagally parking it each night, you may be surprised at how high it is - sometimes higher than renting an inexpensive hotel room each night and eating frugally - having a cooler in a rental car, etc.
Jul 29th, 2006, 02:12 AM
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A long, long time ago we drove down a forest road but we weren't there very long before we were told to move along. Many areas are concerned about the danger of forest fires. Rest areas in New England usually have a sign saying no overnight camping. Your least expensive campgrounds will be state parks which may or may not have any facilities.
Jul 29th, 2006, 04:13 AM
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In some parts of the US, highway rest areas are not nice places, even if you could park there all nights. Some states have closed some areas, locked bathrooms, etc. since they became favorite haunts of assorted perverts.
They are perfectly safe to use during the day when they are staffed and there is a fair amount of vehicle traffic.
They are perfectly safe to use during the day when they are staffed and there is a fair amount of vehicle traffic.
Jul 29th, 2006, 05:39 AM
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Most of the items sold and used everyday in the US arrive at their destinations by truck, and rest areas and other services that cater to truckers are a major industry in themselves.
gail and I live in Massachusetts, in the northeastern corner of the country. Since the northeastern corner is at the beginning or end of any truck route, and becaue this area is very congested and highly developed, you will not find services and areas oriented towards drivers of large vehicles such as trucks and motorhomes.
But in the middle of the country, especially if you are traveling on one of the major east/west interstate highways (40, 70, 80), you will find large, safe, well-used rest areas with good services operated by state agencies, or by private companies such as Flying J. In Iowa, the state rest areas even have free WiFi!
The discussion boards referred to above even include a specialized board on boondocking, as well as ones on campgrounds, roads & routes, etc. They will point out and discuss the merits of the many guide books for free and economically-priced campgrounds, specific locations for wilderness boondocking, etc. You're not alone (unless you want to be). I get the sense that you are interested in wilderness camping rather than just free (as you might find at a truck stop).
gail and I live in Massachusetts, in the northeastern corner of the country. Since the northeastern corner is at the beginning or end of any truck route, and becaue this area is very congested and highly developed, you will not find services and areas oriented towards drivers of large vehicles such as trucks and motorhomes.
But in the middle of the country, especially if you are traveling on one of the major east/west interstate highways (40, 70, 80), you will find large, safe, well-used rest areas with good services operated by state agencies, or by private companies such as Flying J. In Iowa, the state rest areas even have free WiFi!
The discussion boards referred to above even include a specialized board on boondocking, as well as ones on campgrounds, roads & routes, etc. They will point out and discuss the merits of the many guide books for free and economically-priced campgrounds, specific locations for wilderness boondocking, etc. You're not alone (unless you want to be). I get the sense that you are interested in wilderness camping rather than just free (as you might find at a truck stop).
Jul 29th, 2006, 05:42 AM
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"sometimes higher than renting an inexpensive hotel room each night and eating frugally - having a cooler in a rental car, etc."
And well worth it, especially if the alternative is staying in cheap hotels and eating out of a cooler.
And well worth it, especially if the alternative is staying in cheap hotels and eating out of a cooler.
Jul 29th, 2006, 06:51 AM
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There are still truck stops in New England (northeast US). Like I said, just that you need to pay a fee to park. For example, in Massachusettes, there's at least one I used to go often in Chicopee (near Springfield) at Masspike Exit 6 (I-291).
In Connecticut, large truck stops include those at Milldale (I-84 @ I-691, east of Waterbury), east of New Haven (I-95 exit 56), Willington (I-84, Exit 71, just a few miles from the MA border), and many more...
Here are the websites of the main national truck-stop chains. As I said, most welcome RV'ers, and many have RV dump to dispose of waste material.
www.tatravelcenters.com
www.petrotruckstops.com
www.flyingj.com
Facilities at these two are smaller, without full-service restaurants. Parking are more limited, but RVs can park too:
www.pilotcorp.com
www.loves.com
There are some other large independent ones or regional chains like the Giant just east of Gallup, NM; or Iowa 80 "World's Largest Truckstop" just west of Davenport, IA on I-80 of course.
This one is not a chain, but a coalition of mostly independent truckstops:
www.am-best.com
Most large truckstops should sell a national directory of truckstops with amenities listed, including RV dump, etc.
Again, if you want to park for free, there is no safer place than a large truckstop.
In Connecticut, large truck stops include those at Milldale (I-84 @ I-691, east of Waterbury), east of New Haven (I-95 exit 56), Willington (I-84, Exit 71, just a few miles from the MA border), and many more...
Here are the websites of the main national truck-stop chains. As I said, most welcome RV'ers, and many have RV dump to dispose of waste material.
www.tatravelcenters.com
www.petrotruckstops.com
www.flyingj.com
Facilities at these two are smaller, without full-service restaurants. Parking are more limited, but RVs can park too:
www.pilotcorp.com
www.loves.com
There are some other large independent ones or regional chains like the Giant just east of Gallup, NM; or Iowa 80 "World's Largest Truckstop" just west of Davenport, IA on I-80 of course.
This one is not a chain, but a coalition of mostly independent truckstops:
www.am-best.com
Most large truckstops should sell a national directory of truckstops with amenities listed, including RV dump, etc.
Again, if you want to park for free, there is no safer place than a large truckstop.
Jul 29th, 2006, 07:32 AM
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The US has a federal system of government - which means that the states are separate legal entities which make up the county. This is different from most counries - in which the state or province is just a division created by (a creature of) the national government.
That means that most laws are passed and enforced by the state - rather than the federal government. (For instance, murder is not a federal crime - it is a state crime and it's definition and punishmnet vary in each of the 50 states.)
Similarly most laws vary by state, if not by city or town.
In many parts of the the US you are not allowed to park wherever you want - since most land is privately owned. To park on the side of the road on someone's land you would have to find them and obtain their permisssion - or be subject to prosecution for trespass.
Also, in a lot of states in which the roadway shoulders and immediately adjoining land are owned by the states it is illegal - not to say unsafe - to park there.
So - agree that you should check out an RVing web site for details - but no - in many places you cannot simply park wherever you want.
That means that most laws are passed and enforced by the state - rather than the federal government. (For instance, murder is not a federal crime - it is a state crime and it's definition and punishmnet vary in each of the 50 states.)
Similarly most laws vary by state, if not by city or town.
In many parts of the the US you are not allowed to park wherever you want - since most land is privately owned. To park on the side of the road on someone's land you would have to find them and obtain their permisssion - or be subject to prosecution for trespass.
Also, in a lot of states in which the roadway shoulders and immediately adjoining land are owned by the states it is illegal - not to say unsafe - to park there.
So - agree that you should check out an RVing web site for details - but no - in many places you cannot simply park wherever you want.
Jul 29th, 2006, 01:54 PM
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Regarding cost versus hotels. This has always intrigued me, since we have looked into RV rentals on several occasions and not rented due to cost.
I just went to Cruise America website and did an imaginary mid-sized RV rental for 2 weeks end of August. With only a 1400 mileage allowance but including rental, insurance, etc. cost was almost $3,000.
That would pay for $200/night at a hotel - hardly the Fleatrap Inn - and does not even include gas (which for that number of miles would be about $300) or camping fees at campgrounds.
I would think 2-3 people could have a perfectly lovely time for $200/night for food and lodging by staying in mid-end hotels (Comfort Inns, Best Western) that often come with comp. breakfast, eat lunch out of a cooler, and have a moderately priced dinner in a real restaurant for about the same money.
That is how I get my cost computation.
I just went to Cruise America website and did an imaginary mid-sized RV rental for 2 weeks end of August. With only a 1400 mileage allowance but including rental, insurance, etc. cost was almost $3,000.
That would pay for $200/night at a hotel - hardly the Fleatrap Inn - and does not even include gas (which for that number of miles would be about $300) or camping fees at campgrounds.
I would think 2-3 people could have a perfectly lovely time for $200/night for food and lodging by staying in mid-end hotels (Comfort Inns, Best Western) that often come with comp. breakfast, eat lunch out of a cooler, and have a moderately priced dinner in a real restaurant for about the same money.
That is how I get my cost computation.
Jul 29th, 2006, 02:29 PM
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chalclear~Just be careful with the "Wal-mart" thing about camping in their parking lots. I'll give you an example. We live in Henderson, NV (in the Las Vegas Valley...you won't know when you leave Vegas and enter Henderson). Wal-mart advertises in their Rand McNally that it is ok in Vegas...it "is" in Vegas but NOT in Henderson. The city of Henderson does not allow free camping at all. Also, I am not sure Wal-mart parking lots are safe to camp in anyway, you are better off spending the $20-50 for a campground
Jul 29th, 2006, 03:33 PM
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Even within a specific city, you can find one WM that permits overnight parking, and another that doesn't! Fort Collins, CO, for one. It's easy enough to phone ahead and check, then get specifics like directions and whether there's a designated area of the lot.
We haven't heard back from the Ozzie original poster. I have a strong feeling that they're not interested in truck stops and WalMarts, or economy per se, but in the freedom to park in any appealing spot they come across.
We haven't heard back from the Ozzie original poster. I have a strong feeling that they're not interested in truck stops and WalMarts, or economy per se, but in the freedom to park in any appealing spot they come across.
Jul 30th, 2006, 12:20 AM
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Thanks everyone for the comments. Anonymous, the reason you haven't heard back is because I have been away and this is my first opportunity to get back into Fodors. Anonymous, you are absolutely correct - it is not about the 'free' aspect, it is more about BEING free. The notion of being stuck in a campground with every other Tom, Dick and Harry on top of you is just not appealing. We have this picture of being able to park the RV alongside a river, or somewhere else beautiful - not a soul in sight - and just the sounds of nature to accompany us, but as a last resort, rather than have to have people on either side of us, a truckstop or Walmart carpark would have to do.
Nevertheless, we take everything on board about what you are saying and if we are reading you guys correctly, we are going to have to rethink the plan. We have done our costings before when last time we considered doing the same thing in Canada, and Alaska respectively, but ended up renting a car and staying in hotels though we didn't have an esky in the car! It really is very much about the freedom to be able to stop where you want to stop without having to put foot to the metal to get to the next motel for that night. Also, being able to stop for a cuppa anytime is gr8 especially if you have done a walk, get back to the van, and can boil up a steaming hot cup of tea - just wonderful!
Thanks everyone for the time and effort you have all taken. We appreciate the words of wisdom and we shall check out the sites you have suggested.
Nevertheless, we take everything on board about what you are saying and if we are reading you guys correctly, we are going to have to rethink the plan. We have done our costings before when last time we considered doing the same thing in Canada, and Alaska respectively, but ended up renting a car and staying in hotels though we didn't have an esky in the car! It really is very much about the freedom to be able to stop where you want to stop without having to put foot to the metal to get to the next motel for that night. Also, being able to stop for a cuppa anytime is gr8 especially if you have done a walk, get back to the van, and can boil up a steaming hot cup of tea - just wonderful!
Thanks everyone for the time and effort you have all taken. We appreciate the words of wisdom and we shall check out the sites you have suggested.
Jul 30th, 2006, 12:50 AM
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You're going to love Tioga George, since he lives full-time exactly the lifestyle you just described. Be sure to read a few other pages on his site, including his blog, in adition to the specific page about boondocking that I provided the link to, above.
Jul 30th, 2006, 02:09 AM
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There are many publicly held campgrounds (state or federal govt run) in every part of the country that are beautiful, uncrowded, peaceful - space between campsites, etc. There are also many tent campers at these places.
Many privately run campgrounds are exactly what you fear - tenements with massive RVs.
Sounds like the experience of the public campgrounds is more what you would like at night, but still does not address the anyplace/anytime issue.
Also, many of the more secluded, although official and legal, campsites do not allow RVs, only tents. As a long time but long ago tent camper (now I will take a bed, running water and no bugs, please), I am having trouble thinking of many places in US that give you secluded nature, freedom to stop when you want and take RVs.
I do not know if anyone rents small conversion vans with perhaps a stove and small refrigerator that you could rent and then piack up a small tent and some sleeping bags - you could then do a mix of tent camping and hotels.
Many privately run campgrounds are exactly what you fear - tenements with massive RVs.
Sounds like the experience of the public campgrounds is more what you would like at night, but still does not address the anyplace/anytime issue.
Also, many of the more secluded, although official and legal, campsites do not allow RVs, only tents. As a long time but long ago tent camper (now I will take a bed, running water and no bugs, please), I am having trouble thinking of many places in US that give you secluded nature, freedom to stop when you want and take RVs.
I do not know if anyone rents small conversion vans with perhaps a stove and small refrigerator that you could rent and then piack up a small tent and some sleeping bags - you could then do a mix of tent camping and hotels.
Jul 30th, 2006, 10:52 PM
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chalclear,
DH and I have been RVing for 27 years. Maybe if you let me know where in the US you plan to travel, I can direct you to some nice campgrounds. There's not to many locations where you can get all by yourself in an RV...mostly because the roads to these places won't be appropriate for an RV.
Utahtea
DH and I have been RVing for 27 years. Maybe if you let me know where in the US you plan to travel, I can direct you to some nice campgrounds. There's not to many locations where you can get all by yourself in an RV...mostly because the roads to these places won't be appropriate for an RV.
Utahtea
